Want to balance every school budget in the country? Eliminate special education.

[aREDSKIN]

exactly how do propose to get an autistic child to contribute more towards his/her education?

Does the child have parents??

[NewCliche21]

Does the child have parents??

So a child with autism being raised by an aunt who doesn't get a subsidized guardianship because of the length of the process and the fact that kids with autism do not do well with a lack of routine and is taking care of three of her own kids because dad's gone and mom's in rehab should have to pay extra for taking care of a special needs child?

I have her number if you want to tell that to her.

[NewCliche21]

anyway... MY point (aside from whatever the original point in the thread is intrepreted as) is that the objectives of the laws are admirable, but they seem to have been written in crayon an the back of a bar napkin. There appears to have been minimal attention to EFFICIENCY (scratch that... NO attention to efficiency) nor any accounting for the relative costs and benefits of actually comlying with completely blank check legislation. They are vaguely written and polyanaish in a way that just begs abuse of the system.

Abuse of the system? Elaborate?

[Sandman69]

So a child with autism being raised by an aunt who doesn't get a subsidized guardianship because of the length of the process and the fact that kids with autism do not do well with a lack of routine and is taking care of three of her own kids because dad's gone and mom's in rehab should have to pay extra for taking care of a special needs child?

I have her number if you want to tell that to her.

HOW DARE HER! Trying to abuse the system like that! That is almost criminal!

There are plenty of ways to help the school budgets. One of which should NEVER include cutting the classes for Special Needs children.

[stevenaa]

So a child with autism being raised by an aunt who doesn't get a subsidized guardianship because of the length of the process and the fact that kids with autism do not do well with a lack of routine and is taking care of three of her own kids because dad's gone and mom's in rehab should have to pay extra for taking care of a special needs child?

I have her number if you want to tell that to her.

Who should be responsible for the childs expenses?

[zoony]

How would all the future ES members learn to type?

[endzone_dave]

We could cut sports and music. We'd save a ton of money. Go to monster.com and see if soccer and trombone playing are skills employers are really looking for.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

How would all the future ES members learn to type?

/Thread

[NewCliche21]

Who should be responsible for the childs expenses?

The taxpayers as they already are. You don't cut education.

Children do not choose their situations, but some people want them to suffer for it. "Suffer" is the appropriate choice in every definition of the word. The same goes for parents. Unless it's a DAN or someone with FAS, the parents did not choose for children to have disabilities.

Cutting special education is inhuman and intrinsically un-American.

[mspeake]

We could cut sports and music. We'd save a ton of money. Go to monster.com and see if soccer and trombone playing are skills employers are really looking for.

Soccer = Team player

trombone = Creativity

Two skills I look for when hiring employees.

[pointyfootball]

The taxpayers as they already are. You don't cut education.

Children do not choose their situations, but some people want them to suffer for it. "Suffer" is the appropriate choice in every definition of the word. The same goes for parents. Unless it's a DAN or someone with FAS, the parents did not choose for children to have disabilities.

Cutting special education is inhuman and intrinsically un-American.

I doubt anyone is saying that it should be outright cut, at least I'm not. However, blank-check policies are an irresponsible use of resources and end up hurting EVERYONE in the system. I personally think 18% of a student body being "special needs" is a ridiculously high number.

In my son's class there are 3 boys who can't/don't do the writing for any tests. Their teacher has to physically sit down with them individually outside the class and write down their answers. I volunteer a lot in my kids classes (field trips, in-class work, etc) and from my observations, these boys are no different than I was in ES as a kid: hyperactive, goof-offs that struggle in a class room setting. I have no doubt that I would be in special education if I was born 30 years later. Admittedly, I'm not an educator, but I do know there are some kids who are in special education now that would have been considered "normal" when I was a kid. Maybe that explains ME.

[NewCliche21]

I doubt anyone is saying that it should be outright cut, at least I'm not. However, blank-check policies are an irresponsible use of resources and end up hurting EVERYONE in the system. I personally think 18% of a student body being "special needs" is a ridiculously high number.

In my son's class there are 3 boys who can't/don't do the writing for any tests. Their teacher has to physically sit down with them individually outside the class and write down their answers. I volunteer a lot in my kids classes (field trips, in-class work, etc) and from my observations, these boys are no different than I was in ES as a kid: hyperactive, goof-offs that struggle in a class room setting. I have no doubt that I would be in special education if I was born 30 years later. Admittedly, I'm not an educator, but I do know there are some kids who are in special education now that would have been considered "normal" when I was a kid. Maybe that explains ME.

Well, that exactly explains a lot of people in your generation, especially a lot of them in jail or in my office. Just because the diagnoses weren't there back then doesn't mean that they didn't exist and that treatments would not have prevented a lot of problems.

People were dying of pneumonia and cancer thousands of years ago, way before it was diagnosed. Does that mean that the problem didn't exist? Of course not. For example, autism diagnoses have gone up tremendously in the past few years, but does that mean that more people are developing autism? Nah, they're just actually being correctly identified and receiving appropriate treatment.

I don't know where you're getting the "it hurts EVERYONE" data from, but I've provided a lot of scenarios that happen every day to the contrary. You're not thinking enough about future ROI.

I also think that you have a limited sample size to make your judgment, though I do think that it rocks that you volunteer in school. Parental involvement = child's academic success more than any other factor.

[pointyfootball]

Soccer = Team player

trombone = Creativity

Two skills I look for when hiring employees.

Obviously you're not hiring from the French National Team!

I do think some costs should be absorbed by the parents for extracurricular activities as well. However, I do believe they are, indirectly. Soccer games at are high school cost $4 admission and the booster club raises a ton of money through concessions, apparel sales and fundraisers.

[mspeake]

Obviously you're not hiring from the French National Team!

I do think some costs should be absorbed by the parents for extracurricular activities as well. However, I do believe they are, indirectly. Soccer games at are high school cost $4 admission and the booster club raises a ton of money through concessions, apparel sales and fundraisers.

We all have a good idea about the few sports that make money and the many that loose money at the high school level. It's unfortunate because without title IX we could eliminate or impose a fee on the sports that are not turning a profit.

[zoony]

As to the overall point of the thread, I think some tough decisions are in order.

So we've got, what, 1/5 of the average school budget being allocated to 1/50 of the kids? And for that 1/50, the best possible return you can get is fry cook at McDonalds.

No doubt everyone deserves an education, but it does feel like something is a little off here.

And no, I haven't read the thread. Sorry if I'm repeating something. :finger:

(and the 1/50 was a guess)

[pointyfootball]

Well, that exactly explains a lot of people in your generation, especially a lot of them in jail or in my office. Just because the diagnoses weren't there back then doesn't mean that they didn't exist and that treatments would not have prevented a lot of problems.

Do you feel 18% of population to be a reasonable number to expect extra resources to be funneled to? It seems very high to me. I do believe that Special Ed is hugely important, but I struggle with believing it needs to encompass almost 1 out of 5 students.

[NewCliche21]

As to the overall point of the thread, I think some tough decisions are in order.

So we've got, what, 1/5 of the average school budget being allocated to 1/50 of the kids? And for that 1/50, the best possible return you can get is fry cook at McDonalds.

No doubt everyone deserves an education, but it does feel like something is a little off here.

And no, I haven't read the thread. Sorry if I'm repeating something. :finger:

Where the hell did you get that the best possible return you can get is fry cook at McDonald's? I haven't read a more stereotypical, offensive, inaccurate, insensitive, and uninformed post on this board.

There are EXECUTIVES who have had special education needs. I know three people at Ivy League schools RIGHT NOW who had special education needs.

I'm extremely disappointed in you, zoony. What a terrible post. Read the thread before making ridiculous comments like that.

[zoony]

Where the hell did you get that the best possible return you can get is fry cook at McDonald's? I haven't read a more stereotypical, offensive, inaccurate, insensitive, and uninformed post on this board.

It was a bit of hyperbole. Didn't mean to offend

[NewCliche21]

Do you feel 18% of population to be a reasonable number to expect extra resources to be funneled to? It seems very high to me. I do believe that Special Ed is hugely important, but I struggle with believing it needs to encompass almost 1 out of 5 students.

If one in five need special education, then yes.

Where are you willing to draw the line?

I'm wondering where a lot of you got your expertise on the subject. I don't mean that as an attack; I'm genuinely curious.

[SKOALSKIN]

1. The ADA would prohibit the descrimination.

2. Federal funds are provided to offset the cost.

Your sources are weak as ****.

[Thiebear]

Currently running for years in Newport Virginia.

98% :shutup:black community... OMG! i know .. not possible to do so well.

Institute this in 3 wards in DC (start with Ward 8)

Institute this in 3 wards in NJ

Institute this in 3 wards in Chicago

Institute this in 3 wards in Arizona

Then see if it should be expanded:

http://www.achievabledream.org/site/PageServer?pagename=dream_schools

Not only will we run with less funds, the learning goes way up also.

They have FREAKIN FINANCE:

Learn more about An Achievable Dream keys to success and become a part of the "Dreamer" family.

S.A.M.E Program for All Students

Student and Parent Contract

Make the Right Decision

Daily Handshake

Social Rotation Classes-SpeakingGREEN

Social Rotation Classes-Peaceful Conflict Resolution

Social Rotation Classes-Healthy Living

Social Rotation Classes-Etiquette

Social Rotation Classes-Ethics

Social Rotation Classes-Financial Know-How

Uniforms

Longer Day & Extended Year

Contract School vs. Charter School

Military, Police and Sheriffs

[NewCliche21]

It was a bit of hyperbole. Didn't mean to offend

Well, you did.

Racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, sexism, agism, and every type of discrimination are rooted in hyperbole; that's not an excuse.

I'll chalk it up to a complete lack of knowledge as to what these children and then adults experience and then what they cost YOU, the taxpayer, in the long run.

Pay a couple thousand more now to make them productive and happy members of society or pay a couple million to keep them in jail for making mistakes due to a lack of resources when they were younger.

You pick.

[zoony]

Pay a couple thousand more now to make them productive and happy members of society

So that's happening now, is it?

...

[NewCliche21]

So that's happening now, is it?

...

Yes.

I'm defending the status quo and hoping for expansion of human services in schools (not just for students with special education needs).

[polywog999]

I cannot believe the audacity of this thread. Maybe, to save money, we could eliminate the burn units of hospitals or we could just kill people when they get to a certain age. :doh: