The "Running" Thread

[Monte51Coleman]

Corcaigh's advice in this thread should be a valuable resource to anyone here interested in being/becoming a runner rather than someone who runs.

I average about 30 miles per week right now. Not a lot of fun with the average temps in the high 80's and average heat index in the high 90's.

A current normal week for me includes two combo workouts and four easy runs including one long run. I take Sundays off. (Even God rested one day a week.)

This weeks schedule consists of:

M- 5 miles; including 8 x 30 seconds hills at 3k race speed (jog down slowly for recoveries)

T- 4 miles easy pace

W- 6 miles; including 4 x 800m at 5k race speed (jog 400m recoveries)

TH- 5 miles easy pace

F- 4 miles easy pace

SA- 7-8 miles easy pace

SN- off

[Elessar78]

Funny this thread popped up. I recently started running to release stress at the end of the day and geez, a few weeks in I can already tell how much more fresh and happier I am. I use to play soccer in high school and ran track for a little while. I was always more of a sprinter but my endurance was pretty good in high school. Anyway, I've started out slow and I'm about at a mile running non-stop right now. I started out around running 1/4 a mile, then walking over the last couple of weeks and I'm at a mile. I'm going at a very slow pace, but my goal is to be at 2 miles in the next couple of weeks and then 3 then 4, you get the picture. My running path involves running up and down hills which is pretty strenuous. The funniest thing to me though was that I took a few days off and my first day back running, I ran farther than I predicted I would run and it was with some ease as well. It's amazing what simple exercise can do for the mind and body. By the way, I don't really enjoy running haha, but it makes me feel great afterwards. I'm running without an iPod as well, I need to invest in an iPod shuffle because I heard those things can make it feel as if you aren't even running.

yeah, I had an ipod shuffle for that very reason. Plus they're super cheap now. You can buy a used one on craigslist or a refurb one off the apple website for cheap ($50?). My only iPod now is a touch, so it's too clunky for running—so I've kinda gotten used to running without one.

[Corcaigh]

There's an apple app and shoe device that helps you track your mileage. You can "compete" with other people online—I've heard it's fun and has a big following. Can someone help me out with the name, I'm blanking right now.

[Elessar78]

Thanks Corc.

I have 13 days until my next 5K (or 19 if I push back to the next race). But my target race is August 7. It's a relatively flat course so it's great for getting good times, so I want to leave as much time to prepare for that as possible.

day 1 (today): 3 mile run

day 2 : light running

day 3: 2 mile run

day 4: rest

day 5: 3 mile run

day 6: 60 minute walk

day 7: light running

day 8: 3 mile run

day 9: light running

day 10: 2 mile run

day 11: rest

day 12: rest

day 13: RACE DAY!!

"light running" just means I don't try to mimic my race pace and run much slower. For maybe 30 minutes.

[Monte51Coleman]

"light running" just means I don't try to mimic my race pace and run much slower. For maybe 30 minutes.

Does that mean that you are running your race pace during your 3 mile and 2 mile days?

Also, I'm not a big fan of taking days off before a race, makes my lags feel stale instead of fresh. I usually run an easy 4-5 two days out and an easy 2 the day prior.

[Elessar78]

Yeah, or very close to it. I've been of the mindset that to run fast you have to train fast.

We'll see, I might have to modify the above plan because I just realized I play soccer for a few hours on days 5 and 10. So that may have to suffice.

[Redskins Diehard]

The key word here is MOST.

Easy runs are not the same as recovery runs. They allow you to build aerobic strength while setting up the next training session which may or may not be high intensity.The fast path to injury, especially for us older folks is too much intensity. Easy running builds leg strength as well as aerobic capacity.

Once someone has a decent aerobic base then adding two or three "quality" workouts a week is a good way to go. In the base building phase it's a good idea to add in striders, tempos, progressions, and, gradually, hill charges.

As noted earlier, doing intervals only will lead to short term gains. But what is happening is that you are sharpening what is already there - the icing on the cake. It is the volume of easy running that bakes the cake.

Run lots. Mostly easy. Some hard.

Recent research has changed some of the previously held opinions of exercise intensity and duration. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8028502

Of course, a lot depends on where people are in their fitness/conditioning. I definitely wouldn't suggest HIIT to someone that is sitting on a couch contemplating strapping on the running shoes for the first time.

Ultimately increased fitness, faster races, etc comes down to an increased lactic threshold. Which is to say that you can run longer and faster while remaining in the most efficient energy engine the human body has....the aerobic one. Training in the anaerobic zone moves that needle more efficiently(most progress/least time) however it also is very taxing on the body.

[Monte51Coleman]

Recent research has changed some of the previously held opinions of exercise intensity and duration. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8028502

Unless I read it wrong that study relates only to fat burning and other metabolic function. It has nothing to do with training to be a better or faster runner.

Too much time spent at threshold paces will most likely lead to nothing other than burnout and injury.

Here is a very good site dedicated mainly to training techniques. It is not the most active but the quality of the posters is top notch:

http://www.therunzone.com/index.php?board=3.0

The "Coaching Talk" forum has a lot of great information for those looking to get the most out of their training time.

[Redskins Diehard]

Unless I read it wrong that study relates only to fat burning and other metabolic function. It has nothing to do with training to be a better or faster runner.

Too much time spent at threshold paces will most likely lead to nothing other than burnout and injury.

Here is a very good site dedicated mainly to training techniques. It is not the most active but the quality of the posters is top notch:

http://www.therunzone.com/index.php?board=3.0

The "Coaching Talk" forum has a lot of great information for those looking to get the most out of their training time.

Agree that too much time spent at threshold paces will lead to burnout or injury. But that doesn't mean that threshold paces should be avoided.

The fat burning and other metabolic function is what makes you a better runner. That is not only "fat burning" in the sense of losing weight. But it is also "fat burning" in the sense of using fat to fuel your body instead of carbohydrates(in the form of glycogen).

Thanks for the link to the site. The thread "Question About Intervals" explains what I am talking about here.

[Monte51Coleman]

Agree that too much time spent at threshold paces will lead to burnout or injury. But that doesn't mean that threshold paces should be avoided.

The fat burning and other metabolic function is what makes you a better runner. That is not only "fat burning" in the sense of losing weight. But it is also "fat burning" in the sense of using fat to fuel your body instead of carbohydrates(in the form of glycogen).

Thanks for the link to the site. The thread "Question About Intervals" explains what I am talking about here.

I don't recall saying that threshold paces should be avoided. I do, however, think that running threshold only workouts 3-4 times a week is a recipe for burnout/injury.

Perhaps you think that I'm anti-interval or lactate threshold training. I'm decidedly not. If I were I wouldn't run so many of those workouts. Perhaps I think you are anti-aerobic or easy training. That's what I'm getting from your posts. Probably you are not. Both are feathers in a quiver that should be used, neither works alone to build a successful runner/racer.

And, yes, I do think that you would agree.

[Redskins Diehard]

I don't recall saying that threshold paces should be avoided. I do, however, think that running threshold only workouts 3-4 times a week is a recipe for burnout/injury.

I didn't say you did! There was discussion a while back about long, slow, easy runs being the "best" way to increase endurance. I guess it is how you define "best".

[Elessar78]

I don't know if the last few posts were in response to my training plan for the next two weeks. If it is, I just want to note that I don't do this often. It's just leading up to the race. But also, I don't do as many miles as some of the other guys here so I don't feel like I expose myself to overuse injuries or burnout.

[Monte51Coleman]

I don't know if the last few posts were in response to my training plan for the next two weeks. If it is, I just want to note that I don't do this often. It's just leading up to the race. But also, I don't do as many miles as some of the other guys here so I don't feel like I expose myself to overuse injuries or burnout.

Well, at least for my part, they kinda were.

I think that you are going to leave your best race effort in your prep runs. I've been there, done that. At the minimum I'd suggest that you keep your race-paced workouts to no faster than race pace + 1 minute and not do them back to back.

You'll get a greater result on race day.

(I would add that the very fact that you run less mileage makes you a better candidate for burnout and injury.)

[ljs]

You likely need either stability or motion control shoes. Taking action to strengthen your feet will help - some barefoot running on soft surfaces such as sand on nice short grass. And foot strength exercises (gas pedals, rotations, drawing the alphabet with your toes, picking up a ping pong ball with your toes etc.

Here's a google map link to Fleet Feet, a running store I just looked up that's in Coeur D'Alene, ID. There's a branch here in the DC area and they're pretty knowledgeable. I'm sure they can outfit you with a shoe that will address your needs. My local running store always asks what my price range is first, so they may do the same. I'm all for buying shoes online but obviously can't test the fit.

.

thanks guys! I'll check it out

[Corcaigh]

Yeah, or very close to it. I've been of the mindset that to run fast you have to train fast.

You're a better man than me then. Your schedule start has your running race pace three days out of five. For sure, intense training is important if you want to race, but if you run hard every other day chances are you won't be adequately recovered and the intensity will be compromised in subsequent sessions.

For me, running race pace for the whole race length is something I want to do no more than once a week, or probably less frequently.

A more traditional approach would be tempos (run a mile or so followed by a mile close to race pace with cool down) or intervals (say 3x1 mile with generous recovery).

[Corcaigh]

On the subject of easy running versus running hard too often ... Weldon Johnson (one of the founders of the letsrun.com site) writes about why his approach to training in college of running too hard too often held him back ... after college he improved his 10k time by almost two minutes to 28:06.

"Why I sucked in college" - http://www.letsrun.com/2006/collegesuck.php

[Titaw]

Another 1.5 miles down, another 1.5 to go today. I am actually looking forward to it!!

[Redskins Diehard]

Another 1.5 miles down, another 1.5 to go today. I am actually looking forward to it!!

Did you stop in the middle to post this?

This temperature outside is making it difficult to run early in the afternoon which had been my go to time.

[Elessar78]

You're a better man than me then. Your schedule start has your running race pace three days out of five. For sure, intense training is important if you want to race, but if you run hard every other day chances are you won't be adequately recovered and the intensity will be compromised in subsequent sessions.

For me, running race pace for the whole race length is something I want to do no more than once a week, or probably less frequently.

A more traditional approach would be tempos (run a mile or so followed by a mile close to race pace with cool down) or intervals (say 3x1 mile with generous recovery).

Hmm... will give this a go for the next two weeks, train different. I have nothing to lose. I really like this thread, it's instant feedback .

[Corcaigh]

In the evening it's not much better, but enough to make a difference.

Even though I'm not in great shape, the shirt has come off the last few days.

I can't hear the screams of horror if I turn up the iPod volume high enough

[Corcaigh]

Hmm... will give this a go for the next two weeks, train different. I have nothing to lose. I really like this thread, it's instant feedback .

To give you ideas of what a more traditional 5k training program might look like, with a mix of easy and hard efforts, try this:

http://www.halhigdon.com/5K%20Training/5-Kinter.htm

[Redskins Diehard]

Even in the evening it's not much better, but enough to make a difference.

Even though I'm not in great shape, the shirt has come off the last few days.

I can't hear the screams of horror if I turn up the iPod volume high enough

You are right about that. It is too darn hot when I have to head out at 8:30. Tri training now so only run twice a week during the week. Cycling is much more tolerable in the heat for me. And swimming is a delight. Although I am stuck in indoor pools during the week.

[TheLongshot]

You are right about that. It is too darn hot when I have to head out at 8:30. Tri training now so only run twice a week during the week. Cycling is much more tolerable in the heat for me. And swimming is a delight. Although I am stuck in indoor pools during the week.

I was struggling hard on Monday. I expect I will continue to struggle hard tonight. Even tho I own a treadmill, I much prefer running outside when I can.

[squatch66]

so i guess i wasnt giving myself enough credit. i drove the laps that i run the other night to see how far each lap is. each lap is a little over a half mile so when i run i run a little over a quarter mile, walk a little less than a quarter and run the same distance again. then i walk an entire lap just to cool down.

i have been able to go further and further and tonight i just decided to try to get an entire lap without stopping. i was dying by the end but i made it. hopefully i can keep this up and get some more endurance.

i must be weird because i live in texas and its like 100 degrees every day here and i usually run between 5 and 6 so its pretty hot but i dont really notice it when i am out. i will say that it does feel really nice to walk into the a/c afterwards though lol

[Monte51Coleman]

i have been able to go further and further and tonight i just decided to try to get an entire lap without stopping. i was dying by the end but i made it. hopefully i can keep this up and get some more endurance.

You are at a great place in your running program. You will be making performance gains in leaps and bounds. Slow and steady, step by step, you will experience new levels of accomplishment, gain confidence, and be thrilled by your progress. But be careful though, it just might become addictive.