Pakistan bans Facebook over Draw Muhammad Day, also ban Youtube

[GoSkins561]

I'd also like to remind people about the Maplethorpe exhibit. Remember Jesus being placed in urine and how violently angry and upset people got over that... how many tried to shut down the National Endowment of the Arts for funding that Brooklyn museum that wound up choosing to exhibit that work.

Rage over scandelous depiction is not unique to one set of beliefs.

Isn't the National Endowment for the Arts funded by taxpayer money? Ill admit I am not familiar with this, I highly doubt Christians were threatening death to those involved.

[Koala]

Just wanted to point out that I am not Muslim, but thats a fair point...

Oh. Well good for you, its nice to see non-muslims defend against bigotry towards muslims, which I see you doing on a consistent basis. I only objected to putting down christianity in order to defend islam, I dont think thats necessary. But youve got my respect for consistently trying to see things from other people's point of view, there's not enough of that going on in these times.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

This whole thing is bringing out the crazies from the Muslims religion...I even saw one FB group titled 'Boycott Facebook on Draw Muhammad Day (WE WILL DIE FOR OUR PROPHET)'

I'm sorry, but if thats not extremist, I dont know what is. Reading their comments really take things to another level when most of the comments involve violence towards those that draw Muhammad.

The thing about this is that it is actually not written in the Quran that you cant draw Muhammad, its just a Hadith. Another thing, the pictures to be drawn werent going to be offensive, just like a picture of a tree and then saying its Muhammad.

Its ****ing bull**** that the Muslims get catered to because they resort to violence when they get angry.

[Koala]

But this isn't what the facebook thing was about. It was just about being a jerk when you don't have to. the dog is sleeping. No sense poking it with a stick so you can lecture it on barking.

Just let it sleep, and everyone is happy.

~Bang

/thread. Of course a cartoonist would understand better than others that there is a limit to whats appropriate and tasteful, and that there's a difference between having an incisive sense of humor and just being a jerk.

[jpyaks3]

Oh. Well good for you, its nice to see non-muslims defend against bigotry towards muslims, which I see you doing on a consistent basis. I only objected to putting down christianity in order to defend islam, I dont think thats necessary. But youve got my respect for consistently trying to see things from other people's point of view, there's not enough of that going on in these times.

I honestly didn't mean to put down Christianity just wanted to provide an example of another religion that spread by coercion. Colonialism provided a pretty good example and most of the colonial powers used a religious basis to conquer the native people. It just happened that they used Christianity, so I don't see it is a Christian thing just as a way that Christianity was used as justification for some pretty terrible things (just like some Muslims use Islam to justify some pretty terrible things).

[AsburySkinsFan]

I don't get the whole banning any depiction of Muhammad.

I don't get the whole banning any internet site where people do.

I don't get the whole thing about bashing another person's religion for funzies.

I think it's childish and fails to respect another's beliefs.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Islam wasnt founded on forcibly making people to convert - alot of times they just made the Ahl al-Kitab (People of the Book) pay an extra tax when living in their communities. When Islam was first founded, Jews and Christians were allowed inside the Ka'ba, and their was special protection given to them in the Constitution of Medina.

[Burgold]

Isn't the National Endowment for the Arts funded by taxpayer money? Ill admit I am not familiar with this, I highly doubt Christians were threatening death to those involved.

It got pretty crazy as I recall. I think there were demonstrations and threats... I can't remember if any of the threats were acted upon. Lot of really explosive rhetoric.

National Endowment is a government agency and that's one of the things that got people so outraged was that they viewed it as something the Government was funding. I think this happened during Reagan? But it's all kinda hazy.

Even today, when they talk about cutting government the NEA which is almost non-funded (relative to government institutions) is one of the favorites for conservatives to want beheaded... and I think a large part of it is still due to this Maplethorpe controversy.

[Smoot4Prez]

I thought the Facebook thing was a retaliation for the South Park threats? Not saying retaliation is ever good idea, but it's not like this is a completely random anti-muslim thing. It has roots in something.

And ultimately, if you're so religious that looking at any picture of your prophet is blasphemous, you shouldn't be browsing the internet. : p (There are 4 billion other people out there who shouldn't have to be constrained by other people's beliefs.)

But yes, I agree with a few of the above posters that this whole thing is childish and ignorant and not really helping anything at all.

[Bang]

/thread. Of course a cartoonist would understand better than others that there is a limit to whats appropriate and tasteful, and that there's a difference between having an incisive sense of humor and just being a jerk.

Well, I would like to state that I support the Danish cartoonist. It is ridiculous to threaten death over a drawing, even one as scathing as that. It's an opinion, and the man's paid to draw his opinions. His basis of making the cartoon wasn't just juvenile malice, and I don't think it was presented as such. It wasn't designed to say something nice, and it had a point.

~Bang

[frostyj]

Maybe if people would realize WHY they get so upset, maybe there would be some sort of stop to this stupid stuff. But since people seem to think that because they don't believe in the Islamic religion that they should not show them the basic human respect that means trying to NOT be a dick for no reason other than to be a dick. Drawing his likeness is expressly prohibited by their religion. How hard is that to

A/ figure out, and

B/ respect?

Maybe if people didn't disrespect their religion and purposely try to be rude, maybe they wouldn't get so pissed off about it.

~Bang

Not so sure about this, but do agree for the most part.

I was physicly attacked when I mentioned I didn't believe in a god. One day when I was in Iraq a few of us were talking with a group of men about a lot of different things. Of course religion comes up and we went around saying what we believed in. As soon as I said I didn't believe 3 of the 5 guys charged at me. Of course as soon as that happened there were some punches and our weapons drawn. We had been talking to these same men for weeks. Shared food with them, had met families, no problems until I said I didn't believe.

In no way was I rude or disrespectful, they would have beaten me if I had been alone and why? For the sole reason that I don't believe in God.

[Bang]

Not so sure about this.

I was physicly attacked when I mentioned I didn't believe in a god. One day while I was in Iraq a few of us were talking with a group of men about a lot of different things. Of course religion comes up and we went around saying what we believed in. As soon as I said I didn't believe 3 of the 5 guys charged at me. Of course as soon as that happened there were some punches and our weapons drawn. We had been talking to these same men for weeks. Shared food with them, had met families, no problems until I said I didn't believe.

In no way was I rude or disrespectful, they would have beaten me if I had been alone and why? For the sole reason that I don't believe in God.

Well, there's loons everywhere. Some people do take it way too seriously and end up fanatical. It's the fanatics that even force this question to begin with. Point is, I am sure you know plenty of Christians who are good friends, good people, and folks you may even love. Would you do something sure to offend them just to stick it to those three jackoffs who attacked you?

Of course not.

Love thy neighbor, y'all.

~Bang

[Ryman of the North]

The Quran says in Sura 2 verse 256

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

http://www.submission.org/suras/sura2.html

Thats a pretty strong demand to NOT forcibly convert any other religion.

Now Christianity on the other hand has a long long history of forcible conversion and destruction of native cultures.

Yeah and christianity has people killing other people all over the world NOW, oh wait thats Islam. Christianity hasnt been violent since the middle ages which is where the muslims seem stuck.

[styx491]

Yeah and christianity has people killing other people all over the world NOW, oh wait thats Islam. Christianity hasnt been violent since the middle ages which is where the muslims seem stuck.

Christianity now seems to be stuck in confessionals with alter boys

As a young Muslim man, ALL of this stuff just disheartens me. Humanity in general disheartens me. All I have wanted to do was live a rational, morality based life where I can do good for myself and others and be successful. I do not support at all Pakistan banning youtube, although I understand why it happened. I do not support the Draw Muhammad fb group, nor am I supporting the protest groups in retaliation. There is NO NEED FOR ANY VIOLENCE. There is NO need for competition. But sadly, to me religion has been the justification for human beings to cause war and violence for most of history.

I agree with a lot of people here, if they wanna draw Mohammad, then fine, do it, I don't have a problem with it (maybe because I am part of the South Park/Daily Show generation), but don't do it just because you can, and don't do it to make a point about a certain group of people knowing full well what the consequences might be. This group is the same as the Westboro church to me, and THAT is the reason for my anger, not the actual subject of the group.

I have gotten 3 requests on facebook for protests by some of my Muslim "friends", and they include things like reporting the group (no ****, I'm sure fb knows what's going on...), deactivating their accounts (WOW like that will do anything....), and posting on the wall in a "respectful and objective" manner. I would do the latter, but it won't change anything.

There are enough people in this world who believe in their faith enough that objectivity just doesn't matter. It's really sad, because to me fear and faith cannot coexist, yet that is the basis religious extremism.

PS. Does anyone know if this post constitutes me going to Hell now...? Outside of the the drinking and the drugs and the other sacreligious things I've done... does not supporting a secondary "rule" really add on that much to the Heaven canceling **** I've done already?

[Ryman of the North]

For a long time I respected Islam, then I started seeing that its completely against human rights, completely against women and is inimical to modern life. I still have many muslim friends but I simply cannot reconcile a religion that condones killing the way Islam does. and if you are going to talk about pedophilia I would probably avoid that, given that your religions founder married a very young girl and same sex pedophilia was rife in that area and most likely still is.

[jpyaks3]

. I still have many muslim friends but I simply cannot reconcile a religion that condones killing the way Islam does.

Care to elaborate how Islam condones killing?

[GoSkins561]

Care to elaborate how Islam condones killing?

What about the mutlitude of death threats on the discussed Facebook page?

What about the Muslim challenging another Facebooker to try building a church in Saudi Arabia, as if to say, "go for it, we will blow it up"?

What about if I, a middle aged white male were to walk down pretty much any street in many of the middle east/Muslim countries without heavy protection, its pretty much gauranteed, I'm a dead man?

[jpyaks3]

What about the mutlitude of death threats on the discussed Facebook page?

What about the Muslim challenging another Facebooker to try building a church in Saudi Arabia, as if to say, "go for it, we will blow it up"?

How does Islam condone any of these things?

What about if I, a middle aged white male were to walk down pretty much any street in many of the middle east/Muslim countries without heavy protection, its pretty much gauranteed, I'm a dead man?

You are joking right?

You have a pretty warped view of the region if that is what you think would actually happen.

[GoSkins561]

How does Islam condone any of these things?

You are joking right?

You have a pretty warped view of the region if that is what you think would actually happen.

Why do people of Islam continue use violence and threatening violence as a method of communication?

Without naming Jordan, Saudi Arabia or other european vacation spots, please list some countries/cities where a white christian male can walk down the streets safely?

[jpyaks3]

Why do people of Islam continue use violence and threatening violence as a method of communication?

Where does Islam condone violence? Individual Muslims may do some ****ty things just like individual Christians, Jews, or Hindu's but where does Islam condone that violence?

Without naming Jordan, Saudi Arabia or other european vacation spots, please list some countries/cities where a white christian male can walk down the streets safely?

Egypt? Morocco? UAE? Kuwait? Lebanon? Tunisia? Most of the Arab world? Other than Iraq (war), Afghanistan (war), Pakistan (war/lawlessness), and maybe Iran (not sure). I don't think there are many other places where you couldn't walk through the streets if you are even reasonably street smart (just like anywhere else in the world).

[GoSkins561]

Where does Islam condone violence? Individual Muslims may do some ****ty things just like individual Christians, Jews, or Hindu's but where does Islam condone that violence?

Egypt? Morocco? UAE? Kuwait? Lebanon? Tunisia? Most of the Arab world? Other than Iraq (war), Afghanistan (war), Pakistan (war/lawlessness), and maybe Iran (not sure). I don't think there are many other places where you couldn't walk through the streets if you are even reasonably street smart (just like anywhere else in the world).

"Reasonably street smart"

Ill have to do some more research on this one, I did say outside of the European vacation spots. For instance I could go to random parts of S. Korea or Japan and I would just be another white boy walking around, no big deal.

[jpyaks3]

"Reasonably street smart"

Ill have to do some more research on this one, I did say outside of the European vacation spots. For instance I could go to random parts of S. Korea or Japan and I would just be another white boy walking around, no big deal.

Reasonably street smart as in take precautions you would in any major city in America or anywhere else. Also make sure you are familiar with local laws too wouldn't want to run into any problems with the Saudi religious police.

Definitely do more research because most of the Arab world it is not a big deal especially in the cities. If you go ultra rural like Bedouin areas it might be different but the majority of the Arab world at least you would just be another tourist or white boy walking around.

[PokerPacker]

I don't have a problem with any muslim country banning over this. Let's face it. drawing their prophet is strictly against their religion, right? So why do it? Just to piss them off? To show that we think it's stupid?

I think it was a bad idea from the get-go

~Bang

its a show that terrorism will not get them what they want. They murder people over a few cartoons to make people stop drawing him? **** that, we're not gonna be slaves to terrorism. This is to show them that we value our freedom and we will not give in to terrorism and that they will only "suffer" greater for what they have done.

[Bang]

its a show that terrorism will not get them what they want. They murder people over a few cartoons to make people stop drawing him? **** that, we're not gonna be slaves to terrorism. This is to show them that we value our freedom and we will not give in to terrorism and that they will only "suffer" greater for what they have done.

I suppose. So to show a small number of them we mean business, we'll just insult something they ALL hold dear.

Doesn't seem to be helping / changing / expressing / achieving anything at all.

~Bang

[PokerPacker]

I suppose. So to show a small number of them we mean business, we'll just insult something they ALL hold dear.

Doesn't seem to be helping / changing / expressing / achieving anything at all.

~Bang

The way I see it, is that every religion gets insulted one way or another. it happens. I am apologetic to the good Muslims (which is the vast majority), but at the same time, I feel a stand must be made. There is no freedom to not be offended, but there is a freedom to not live in fear of terror. If this is what it takes to show the terrorists we will not succumb to fear, I think I can handle the collateral damage of offending a few good people. Especially since, as I mentioned, every religion takes its licks anyways.