lol @ Reid worried about Donovan's feelings.

[OWUeagleMD]

I hate this trade and was vocal about wanting the Eagles to keep McNabb, even before it came out that he might go to my most hated team.

But a few points on some ideas floating around:

1) While Reid has said he took McNabb's feelings into account, he also said that the Skins offered more than any other team. Maybe he's lying, I don't know. But if not, the fact that they traded him where he wanted to go is only relevant in that it potentially improves a divisional rival.

2) When the Eagles traded out of the first round in 07, it was said that they never should have allowed Dallas back in the first round. Doing so netted them Kevin Kolb, who is now the team's starting QB. We'll know later this year whether the supposed "unbreakable rule" of not trading with a divisional rival benefited the Eagles or the Cowboys. If Kolb is what they think he is, it could become the case that the Cowboys, not the Eagles, were the team that directly assisted a divisional rival.

Essentially, the fear of trading with a divisional rival is silly. Sure, you don't want to help a team you compete with for a playoff spot. But if you think you're getting the better end of the deal, then you don't think you're helping them at all. It's circular logic that doesn't hold up to a moment of resistance.

Now, the idea of looking at McNabb, my favorite player of all time, wearing those disgusting colors makes my stomach turn. But that's a matter of subjective preference, not an objective belief that you shouldn't trade with divisional rivals. Trading Thrash for a pick we used on Trent Cole ended up pretty well for us. It's starting to look like the trade for Kolb and Stewart Bradley with the Cowboys worked out pretty well too.

[CowboysSaintsFan]

I hate this trade and was vocal about wanting the Eagles to keep McNabb, even before it came out that he might go to my most hated team.

But a few points on some ideas floating around:

1) While Reid has said he took McNabb's feelings into account, he also said that the Skins offered more than any other team. Maybe he's lying, I don't know. But if not, the fact that they traded him where he wanted to go is only relevant in that it potentially improves a divisional rival.

2) When the Eagles traded out of the first round in 07, it was said that they never should have allowed Dallas back in the first round. Doing so netted them Kevin Kolb, who is now the team's starting QB. We'll know later this year whether the supposed "unbreakable rule" of not trading with a divisional rival benefited the Eagles or the Cowboys. If Kolb is what they think he is, it could become the case that the Cowboys, not the Eagles, were the team that directly assisted a divisional rival.

Essentially, the fear of trading with a divisional rival is silly. Sure, you don't want to help a team you compete with for a playoff spot. But if you think you're getting the better end of the deal, then you don't think you're helping them at all. It's circular logic that doesn't hold up to a moment of resistance.

Now, the idea of looking at McNabb, my favorite player of all time, wearing those disgusting colors makes my stomach turn. But that's a matter of subjective preference, not an objective belief that you shouldn't trade with divisional rivals. Trading Thrash for a pick we used on Trent Cole ended up pretty well for us. It's starting to look like the trade for Kolb and Stewart Bradley with the Cowboys worked out pretty well too.

Well, we got Anthony Spencer in this deal, a franchise player, so I think we breaked even.:pfft:

Kolb is going to be very, very good - I'm a Tulane alum, and the Green Wave played Kolb's alma mater(forgot what it was) once a year b/c they're in the same conference. This guy showed alot of potential.

Also - I think injuries derailed the Eagles last year. Losing Bradley ended up making the other Eagles defensive players play out of position(including their DL, which generated little pass rush), and losing Jamaal Jackson was the tipping point - their OL was shot down pretty good. I think the Eagles would have beaten my team in wk17, and got that #2 seed, and maybe would have played well enough on D to beat my other team in the NFCCG.

[pointyfootball]

I hate this trade and was vocal about wanting the Eagles to keep McNabb, even before it came out that he might go to my most hated team.

You hate the redskins more than the Giants/Cowboys? I can't imagine that. I hate the Giants the most , closely followed by Boys and the skins are a distant third. JMO.

[Destino]

I don't understand eagle fans at all. They have a coach that has made them a consistent winner and they complain. They drafted a QB that game them consistent wins and they complain.

When Kolb falls on his face and you have 4 losing seasons in a row... tell me what you think about McNabb.

[pointyfootball]

Kolb is going to be very, very good

I'm having trouble blocking the time two years ago when he came in for McNabb, promptly through an interception on his first pass. Or his 147 yd pick 6 to ed reed.

We'll see, I guess.

[pointyfootball]

i don't understand eagle fans at all. They have a coach that has made them a consistent winner and they complain. They drafted a qb that game them consistent wins and they complain.

When kolb falls on his face and you have 4 losing seasons in a row... Tell me what you think about mcnabb.

1960

[CowboysSaintsFan]

I don't understand eagle fans at all. They have a coach that has made them a consistent winner and they complain. They drafted a QB that game them consistent wins and they complain.

When Kolb falls on his face and you have 4 losing seasons in a row... tell me what you think about McNabb.

It's all about winning Super Bowls - the reason why Bill Belichick/Tom Brady will get a free ride in New England b/c they won 3 Super Bowls. The reason why Eli doesn't get nearly as much flack anymore in New York is b/c they won a Super Bowl recently(prior to 2008, Giants fans wanted to run him and Coughlin out of town - now even Coughlin gets much more respect).

And the same here with Dallas - we got that monkey off of our backs when Wade/Romo sits to pee/the team got their first playoff win in millions of moons, but after he got smacked by Minny the week after, the lingering monster questioned remerged.

Without that Super Bowl, noone will be satisfied.

[OWUeagleMD]

You hate the redskins more than the Giants/Cowboys? I can't imagine that. I hate the Giants the most , closely followed by Boys and the skins are a distant third. JMO.

I'm from Columbia. I've been surrounded by Redskins fans my whole life. There's no comparison for me. I damn near like the Giants and Cowboys compared to how I feel about the Skins.

I don't understand eagle fans at all. They have a coach that has made them a consistent winner and they complain. They drafted a QB that game them consistent wins and they complain.

When Kolb falls on his face and you have 4 losing seasons in a row... tell me what you think about McNabb.

I can tell you right now. He's the best player in franchise history and my personal favorite of any sport at any time.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I don't understand eagle fans at all. They have a coach that has made them a consistent winner and they complain. They drafted a QB that game them consistent wins and they complain.

When Kolb falls on his face and you have 4 losing seasons in a row... tell me what you think about McNabb.

It's because of the same systemic problems that exist with both McNabb and Reid (and the Front Office). When you have the same pairing for 11 years, some things become painfully obvious to the point of frustration.

For Reid it was always blissfully ignoring the WR situation and the LBs. Build an offense predicated on throwing the ball 65% of the time but then go into seasons with James Thrash and Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell as your WRs. He never runs the ball enough, he burns timeouts like he's allergic to them (and challenges), he can't manage the clock at all, and he has no personality. I think Reid's a good coach, just as McNabb is a good quarterback, but after a decade fixable problems which aren't addressed become frustrating.

With McNabb, like Reid, it's always taking the good with the bad. He's a good quarterback who is fairly consistent when he's healthy. But he misses 2 games every year, he passively throws players on his team under the bus instead of taking responsibility for things (regardless if he's to blame, you take the blame since you're the QB), he never leads the team down the field with 3 or 4 minutes left when trailing, and whenever he loses he always has the same grin. I think it's just his way of handling frustration but sometimes you want to see the leader of the team seem like he's angry, and Donovan, fortunately and unfortunately sometimes, never lets it bubble into genuine emotion.

You can call it being "spoiled" or whatever you'd like, but after ten years in a passionate city, people get frustrated with things. And like it or not, coaches and QBs are blamed the most for the failings of the team (just as they're given credit when the team wins). Due to the contract situation and the overall situation surrounding the team, it was just time to move on. The team was stagnating. The entire core is young, and with McNabb's contract expiring, you either needed to renew him or trade him because having him play this season and letting him go makes no sense. When you come to realize they aren't winning the SB with McNabb OR Kolb this year, the only thing that makes sense is to deal McNabb and see what you have in Kolb or give Donovan an extension.

McNabb's been a very good QB for the Eagles for a long time. He's the best QB they've ever had. I'm sure he'll do well in Washington. It's just hard to understand the dynamics of the situation without living and dieing with the team.

[bulldog]

well, the Eagles have never won a Super Bowl. so, they hate all the coaches and players they have watched for the last 40 years since the merger? :laugh:

The Redskins won 3 Super Bowls and went to another under Gibbs, but I still have fond memories of the 1972 team when I was a young kid that went to the SB under Allen but lost to Miami.

You have to embrace the journey as well as the final destination.

[OWUeagleMD]

You have to embrace the journey as well as the final destination.

Exactly.

[Eagles_Legendz]

well, the Eagles have never won a Super Bowl. so, they hate all the coaches and players they have watched for the last 40 years since the merger? :laugh:

The Redskins won 3 Super Bowls and went to another under Gibbs, but I still have fond memories of the 1972 team when I was a young kid that went to the SB under Allen but lost to Miami.

You have to embrace the journey as well as the final destination.

I certainly don't hate Donovan, and despite what the media might portray, most Philly fans don't hate him either.

Due to the construction of the team and status of his contract, it was time to move on.

[Chachie]

As for the situation McNabb is in now. Sure he had less in the past and did well. But that was then. That was years ago. What we have seen of McNabb of the past 2-3 years is that he couldn't get it done with loads of talent around him. Not with T.O. when T.O. was a machine. Not with the great weapons he had last season.

Hate-

I am and have always been a very vocal McNabb lover and even I am scratching my head at this move. However, I'm a Redskin fan first and no matter what the front office does I have to root for the colors every sunday so whether it's Jason Campbell, Colt Brennan, Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen or whomever, I gotta get on board. So does tr1. So It's Donnie Freakin' Mac. Right off the bat, he's better than any of the guys I just listed going into week 1. How can I complain? We can talk about the future of the organization and I'd have to once again scratch my head but guess what- the 2010 season is indeed part of the future of this organization and I want to win in 2010.

As far as tr1's post about McNabb choking as many times as Tony Romo sits to pee, I'll say this- he's choked more times than Romo sits to pee. It's just been in way bigger games than Romo sits to pee's ever reached.

[redskindan07]

That's alright let's see who feelings get hurt when #5 throws for 300 on them and a "W"

[HigSkin]

Wait until Eagles fans find out that Kolb grew up in Texas as a Cowboy's fan. I laughed when Rich E. (NFLN) pointed that out and Kolb tried to down play it because he knows he has a tough road to fan respect.

[HeHateMe]

Hate-

I am and have always been a very vocal McNabb lover and even I am scratching my head at this move. However, I'm a Redskin fan first and no matter what the front office does I have to root for the colors every sunday so whether it's Jason Campbell, Colt Brennan, Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen or whomever, I gotta get on board. So does tr1. So It's Donnie Freakin' Mac. Right off the bat, he's better than any of the guys I just listed going into week 1. How can I complain? We can talk about the future of the organization and I'd have to once again scratch my head but guess what- the 2010 season is indeed part of the future of this organization and I want to win in 2010.

As far as tr1's post about McNabb choking as many times as Tony Romo sits to pee, I'll say this- he's choked more times than Romo sits to pee. It's just been in way bigger games than Romo sits to pee's ever reached.

C,

Of course you bleed B & G. Just as I bleed Cowboy blue. And you will root for any player on the team because the loyal fan in you forces you too. Just as I rooted for T.O. when he became a Cowboy, even though he showed up the star just a few years prior.

It's what we do as fans. And I fully expect tr1 to support D-Mac from yesterday forward.

But it won't erase the fact that he had ridden McNabb for years as not even close to the QB the media, the Eagles fans, and everyone else makes him out to be. Sure, that's his job as the local die hard in ATN assigned the duty of riling up the rivals, but I just don't want him, or ANYONE else for that matter, act and the post, like they've always thought he was a stud QB. A great one. One of the league's best. Etc, etc, etc.

And the people who do, know who they are. And most likely, the regulars 'round here know them too.

[Chachie]

C,

Of course you bleed B & G. Just as I bleed Cowboy blue. And you will root for any player on the team because the loyal fan in you forces you too. Just as I rooted for T.O. when he became a Cowboy, even though he showed up the star just a few years prior.

It's what we do as fans. And I fully expect tr1 to support D-Mac from yesterday forward.

But it won't erase the fact that he had ridden McNabb for years as not even close to the QB the media, the Eagles fans, and everyone else makes him out to be. Sure, that's his job as the local die hard in ATN assigned the duty of riling up the rivals, but I just don't want him, or ANYONE else for that matter, act and the post, like they've always thought he was a stud QB. A great one. One of the league's best. Etc, etc, etc.

And the people who do, know who they are. And most likely, the regulars 'round here know them too.

I thought about that right after posting. You have truly been where many Redskin fans are right now.

I've come a long way since last night about the McNabb trade and hopefully tr1 is considering what I have..

1. I first had to accept that I just got one of my favorite NFL QBs on my home team. No matter how I slice that money-wise, age-wise, or any-wise, it's Donnie Mac. My guy. So hard to root for when he played the Skins but so hard to deny as a premier QB in the league. He can't run like he used to but he still does everything else better than he used to. I heart McNabb. (This one means nothing in reference to tr1.)

2. This trade works way better for Philly's future (wow they are truly a sharp front office) than it does for Washington's but I had to swallow the big pill of it being good for Washington too. We need this guy, if only for 1-3 years. Eli and Romo sits to pee are simply too good and too consistent for us to entertain the notion that Campbell could have ever risen to their levels. Ever. The fact is that you need a fantastic QB to move forward in today's NFL.

3. If nothing else, we will see what we have in Thomas and Kelly. No excuses from here on. Another season with Campbell or a rookie would have clouded our offensive picture even more as we would again lose at least 9 games and only see small flashes from our young WRs. Now either they sink or swim because nobody is going to question McNabb's mechanics or knowledge of the system or field leadership.

4. Proven HC + proven QB = proof of life. We breathe again, even if it's only for 8 games while the fans "believe" before a fall from grace at the end, but it's better than going into week one with Jason Campbell learning again. Ugh.

So in the face of yet another "UberSnyderSuperNova", in the face of dishing out more draft picks and starting another season under a fresh head coach, and in the face of yet another tidal wave of humiliation when he goes down to a torn ACL in week 2 (pleaseGoddon'tdothat), I have to suck it up and be happy that we got Donovan McNabb and I'm kind of laughing that tr1 has to as well.

DNabb is a great, quality-character HOF QB who isn't as physically old at 33 as the world would expect him to be.

(I hope we can land Okung before we virtually sit out the rest of the draft. Again.)

[HeHateMe]

Well put C. Hard to argue with you there.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Yep. Read it word for word.

And all I'm doing now is beating him to the punch when he ultimately jumps on the McNabb bandwagon. He was by far one the biggest McNabb haters in ATN for years. Continually going at it with WB, WD and the other Eagle fan regulars. So when he starts proclaiming how much better McNabb is than Romo sits to pee, Manning and Kolb, he should know that most of the regulars around here will know its a joke.

Now if he maintains a little consistency and sticks to his guns about McNabb and how he truly feels about him as a QB, then color me suprised when it happens. But we'll wait and see.

So, you weren't arguing against something he said, but against something you expect him to say sometime in the future? lol...Ok.

As for the situation McNabb is in now. Sure he had less in the past and did well. But that was then. That was years ago. What we have seen of McNabb of the past 2-3 years is that he couldn't get it done with loads of talent around him. Not with T.O. when T.O. was a machine. Not with the great weapons he had last season.

By that reasoning neither could Romo sits to pee with "the most talented team in the NFL". But at least McNabb got to the NFC Championship Game...if we get that far during his (probably) 3 years as starter here, I doubt too many will be disappointed. If we get to the Super Bowl in that time span, and lose, I imagine even less would be disappointed. As tr1 indicated, McNabb could keep the Skins in contention each year, which is something we haven't experienced in awhile.

He immediately goes to a team that is rebuilding with far inferior offensive talent.

"Far" inferior? No. Well, on the OLine, yes lol. But you put Santana Moss, Chris Cooley, Devin Thomas, Fred Davis and Clinton Portis on the Eagles for the last two seasons and you see a significant jump in their productivity.

With the Eagles, they would have: Established head coach. Established OC. Established top 10 QB. Established scheme. Established playcaller.

With the Skins, they had: Jim Zorn and Jason Campbell.

The talent levels are not that different. But the difference in head coach, OC, playcaller, QB and scheme are incredible. If the Skins can somehow manage to put together a halfway decent O-Line, don't be surprised if you see them suddenly looking far more potent than you're wanting to believe they can be.

By the time he is surrounded by a cast he can actually produce and win consistently with, it will most likely be too late. Philadelphia, with all their brilliant offensive moves over the past 10 years couldn't figure out the formula. I'm not sure the Redskins will either in the short amount of time they will have with him.

Again, you must be absolutely destitute in your views about Romo sits to pee and the Cowboys' chances, then lol ...

But the thing is, very VERY few Skins fans are saying "Super Bowl" because of McNabb...but we ARE thinking that maybe we can see the playoffs and be in the hunt year after year while we have him. Maybe we can find our future franchise QB in the draft and not have to rush him into the game now. Maybe we can let him learn on the bench so that he's fully ready to go when called upon.

And in the meantime, who the hell expected the Cardinals to suddenly catch fire one year and come within an incredible last-second drive from winning the Super Bowl? I mean, it's not as if Arizona going out and getting a new OC and new head coach had any effect or anything. :cool:

And as for tr1's expectation of "keeping us competitive", well the rest of the NFCE will gladly take that result during McNabb's tenure in DC.

Considering that the Redskins have gone 5-5 against the Cowboys while they were wallowing at records of 5-11 and 4-12 during that time, it shouldn't have any Dallas fan hoping for any improvement at all.

[dfbovey]

As far as accuracy goes:

Elway: 56.9% career completion percentage

McNabb: 59.0% career completion percentage

If accuracy is where you think McNabb falls behind Elway, I think you'd be mistaken.

Where McNabb falls behind Elway, is McNabb never had a coach committed to the running game. Elway had that just before he retired. Other than that they are pretty similar, with Elway having the advantage as far as making clutch plays when his team needed them the most.

[TSO]

Yep. Read it word for word.

And all I'm doing now is beating him to the punch when he ultimately jumps on the McNabb bandwagon. He was by far one the biggest McNabb haters in ATN for years. Continually going at it with WB, WD and the other Eagle fan regulars. So when he starts proclaiming how much better McNabb is than Romo sits to pee, Manning and Kolb, he should know that most of the regulars around here will know its a joke.

Now if he maintains a little consistency and sticks to his guns about McNabb and how he truly feels about him as a QB, then color me suprised when it happens. But we'll wait and see.

As for the situation McNabb is in now. Sure he had less in the past and did well. But that was then. That was years ago. What we have seen of McNabb of the past 2-3 years is that he couldn't get it done with loads of talent around him. Not with T.O. when T.O. was a machine. Not with the great weapons he had last season.

He immediately goes to a team that is rebuilding with far inferior offensive talent. By the time he is surrounded by a cast he can actually produce and win consistently with, it will most likely be too late. Philadelphia, with all their brilliant offensive moves over the past 10 years couldn't figure out the formula. I'm not sure the Redskins will either in the short amount of time they will have with him.

And as for tr1's expectation of "keeping us competitive", well the rest of the NFCE will gladly take that result during McNabb's tenure in DC.

You don't get it, do you?

tr1 is a Redskins fan. It's why he hates Dallas so much. Mcnabb was wearing green, and now he's in the burgundy and gold. That automatically makes him more likable.

Do we love him yet? Absolutely not. But the colors alone make him easier to swallow. Got it? Good.

What you're missing is that Mcnabb wanted to become a Redskin. He wanted to don the burgundy and gold over going anywhere else. He forced the Eagles hands to come here. That alone makes him likable to a Skins fan. Us Skins fans can understand how someone may be lost in the dark for a long time, like say, 11 years... but now he's found his way.

I'm sure you just looooved TO while he was on the Eagles, the same as you did when he was on your team, eh? And TO was a known mischief maker at that!

[Mooka]

They had to be worried about Donovan's feelings, he could essentially veto any trade by refusing to sign an extension with the new team.

[pointyfootball]

Wait until Eagles fans find out that Kolb grew up in Texas as a Cowboy's fan. I laughed when Rich E. (NFLN) pointed that out and Kolb tried to down play it because he knows he has a tough road to fan respect.

I personally good care less about that. I'm not naive enough to believe that all 53 players on the Eagles roster grew up diehard Eagles fans and would play differently if they were on another team. Players want to earn $ and win, most of the times in that order.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Where McNabb falls behind Elway, is McNabb never had a coach committed to the running game. Elway had that just before he retired. Other than that they are pretty similar, with Elway having the advantage as far as making clutch plays when his team needed them the most.

True...if Shanahan/Allen somehow manage to scrape together a consistently effective OLine and running game, that's only gonna help McNabb and the offense. For instance, imagine if the Skins could use play action and actually FOOL the defense when they did lol ...now imagine it being McNabb delivering the ball off of that effective play action.

[HeHateMe]

What you're missing is that Mcnabb wanted to become a Redskin. He wanted to don the burgundy and gold over going anywhere else. He forced the Eagles hands to come here. That alone makes him likable to a Skins fan. Us Skins fans can understand how someone may be lost in the dark for a long time, like say, 11 years... but now he's found his way.

:

You sure about that?

There were numerous reports he wanted to go to Minnesota or Arizona. I never read one report where he said he "wanted" to go to Washington.

When forced to pick among Oakland, Buffalo or Washington, he chose the latter. Wow. Over Oakland and Buffalo. Impressive.

If that's something you're gonna hang your hat on to "like" him more, I don't know what to say.

Look, it's a good move for them to win a couple more games. But, in the end, they will not win a Super Bowl with him, or even make it for that matter.

But that's not the point. I'm not saying Redskins fans can't root for him and embrace him and even buy his jersey.

But to change your opinion on him as a QB talent wise, how good he is, who he is better than, who you would rather have him than, etc. just because he's a Redskin is just hypocritical and sad. And those who do it, should be called out on it to explain why they feel that way now. And just because of the uniform he's wearing shouldn't change that.