2010 Record bad enough to the get franchise QB in 2011 draft???

[MrJL]

As for trading up, I think we'd be in a major bidding war if we tried for the services of Locker, Ponder, or whoever the draft gurus decide is the franchise QB of the 2011 draft. And if we've a middle of the pack first round slot (courtesy of our record that could be between 7-9 and 9-7) it would be extremely difficult to make get Locker. Seattle is going to pull out all the stops for a hometown hero and they're already very close to needing a QB. I suspect in 2011 Jacksonville may be ready for a change as well, so we'd have the same trouble getting Ponder. I don't just don't see a scenario like where Cutler slid to where Denver was able to trade up to get him.

why wouldn't Seattle take Clausen this year?

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Not only will it be pretty hard for us to finish as bad as we did this past season, the other question that needs to be asked is will there even be a franchise QB coming out next year? Franchise QB's don't come around every year, I think there are at least 2 this year and if MS thinks he needs a QB he better grab him now because I don't think we will be in this position again.

[MrJL]

I think you're selling short guy like CP, Santana, Cooley, Randle El, even Fred Davis, Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly by saying that. Jason's had a solid supporting cast for most of his seasons with the Skins, save for maybe this year where his oline was terrible, Cooley was injured and CP was not the CP we're used to.

Okay, so you don't think last year would be a good judge. That leaves him three years as the Skins starting QB

well, in the first eight games of Zorn's first season, 2008 people were talking about Campbell as a Pro Bowler until things fell apart in the second half.

In 2006 he started seven games, had a game winner and four more TDs than interceptions.

In 2007 they made the playoff with Collins QBing the the last four games. That means they were still in position to get in with him as QB for 12 games.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Okay, so you don't think last year would be a good judge. That leaves him three years as the Skins starting QB

well, in the first eight games of Zorn's first season, 2008 people were talking about Campbell as a Pro Bowler until things fell apart in the second half.

In 2006 he started seven games, had a game winner and four more TDs than interceptions.

In 2007 they made the playoff with Collins QBing the the last four games. That means they were still in position to get in with him as QB for 12 games.

2006, Jason did show some promise, but he looked very raw which many attributed to him being a rookie. 10tds and 6ints was pretty indicative of his play for just about all of his years with the Skins I'd say, He doesn't try to force much, so he very rarely will throw a ton of picks because he not a gunslinger in that sense. The game winner was nice, but even in that game, statistically speaking, he didn't really give you reason to jump for joy aside from that 1 play he had thrown for 52 yards and was 11 of 23 for the game (49% completion rate).

Using the argument that we were in position to get to the playoffs in '07 is pretty weak one in my opinion. We were on our way to our 5th straight loss when Jason got injured, the defense did let him down a couple of times (in Dallas letting TO run all over them, and the Eagles game letting Westbrook go nuts), but Jason still had a knack for making bad decisions (the throw to end the Cowboys game, 2 bad picks vs. Tampa come to mind), had terrible timing on his throws (we very rarely saw many YAC from our WRs), bad deep ball accuracy (he missed Santana deep on a number of occasions), a propensity to fumble. The Chicago game was looking like it was about to be our 5th loss in a row with Jason behind center (many, including myself, said the Bears defense was too fast, and getting too much pressure for us to do anything) and once Todd came in he made the Bears defense pay for their aggressiveness and accumulated 224 yards and we ended up winning 24-16.

I remember that season making the excuse that Jason just didn't have as good a grasp on the system as Todd, that Todd wasn't playing that well and that Jason was handcuffed by Gibbs, yet Todd was not. Though secretly I remember questioning Jason wondering if he had the ability to do any of the things Todd was doing, specifically showing touch on his passes, good accuracy, the ability to read defenses and solid timing with his WRs (somehow Santana Moss started looking like the Santana of old).

In 2008 Jason started off playing well. I think it's fair to say that defenses not yet adjusting to Zorn's system, CP being on an all-out tear, the defense played pretty damn good that year too and the fact the Jason had yet to throw a pick were part of the reason JC was getting so much love. Not to take anything away from Jason because I thought he did a great job managing games, and showed flashes of promise in games against Dallas and NO in particular that made me very hopeful for his future.

However thinking back to that season Jason still struggled mightily even in some of our wins (Cleveland, Philly), and especially in our early our losses (STL, and NYG) that caused some concern on my behalf, even though I was reluctant to admit it when some posters on here pointed out his flaws even back then. Even looking back at the stats most of Jason's numbers were rather pedestrian, with games against Detroit, Dallas and NO being his standouts, and it's pretty obvious that the write up on Jason that many make was/is the case "He doesn't strike fear in many defenses". Which was pretty apparent when CP got hurt and the production of the O-line fell off, defenses weren't worried about Jason beating them, and though they dared him to prove them wrong, he never really did. In-fact, the 2008 season was pretty much the year I started to take off my Campbell blinders, as most of the other years I made plenty of excuses for him. It happened during the Cincy and Philly games. I gave Jason a pass in a lot of the games for his poor play because the Oline was subpar and I figured playing teams like Dallas, NYG, Pitt and Baltimore helped to really expose our deficiencies. However in the Cincy game Jason had solid protection had time to make plays and on a number of occasions made poor decisions, bad throws and critical mistakes that may have been the difference in the game (the memory of Fred Davis running wide open towards the endzone and Jason throwing the ball 8 yards over his head is still fresh in my mind). The Philly game Jason struggled yet again to move the ball, while it could be argued that the Eagle's defense was playing at a high level at that point in the season, when he had chances to make the defense pay for their mistakes and put the game out of reach he failed yet again. Case-in-point, there was a point during the game where we were on the 40 yard line, up 7-0, Jason takes the snap drops back, is looking Santana Moss' direction the entire time (I was at the game sitting 2 rows from the corner of the Redskins endzone), Santana had nearly 10 yards between himself and any defender (it felt like he was coming right at us) Jason looks like he's about to throw it to Santana (at this point myself along with everyone in our section jumped up and was ready to yell touchdown), he did his standard double clutch of the ball and dumped it off to Ladell Betts. The drive ended in a field goal. Santan was even shaking his head in disappointment, waving his hand at Jason indicating "I was wide open".

It was things like that that really made me take a critical look at Jason and realize that he tends to leave more plays on the field than he should. You can argue that his oline stinks, that he's had WRs who drop balls, that he fights hard, but when the time comes for him to step up, rise above the bull**** and make something happen like many Franchise QBs will/should do occasionally, he rarely does. For the most part Jason makes the same exact mistakes he was making in his rookie year and in '07.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

One more point I'd like to make, Jason is the only QB that we've had where when the game is on the line and he has the ball that I find myself nearly crossing my fingers thinking, "Jason please don't screw this up, just make the right plays to get us to the endzone" and cringing in near horror while watching him.

[wvtbred]

One more point I'd like to make, Jason is the only QB that we've had where when the game is on the line and he has the ball that I find myself nearly crossing my fingers thinking, "Jason please don't screw this up, just make the right plays to get us to the endzone" and cringing in near horror while watching him.

You are not alone either trust me.

[MrJL]

You are not alone either trust me.

well, then you all just aren't nervous enough. I've been watching Redskins games for just over twenty years and I've never not thought that.

[wvtbred]

well, then you all just aren't nervous enough. I've been watching Redskins games for just over twenty years and I've never not thought that.

and I have been watching for over 40 and he is absolutely the worst starting QB I have seen in a Skins uni IMO. Neither opinion proves a thing.

[MrJL]

Using the argument that we were in position to get to the playoffs in '07 is pretty weak one in my opinion. We were on our way to our 5th straight loss when Jason got injured, the defense did let him down a couple of times (in Dallas letting TO run all over them, and the Eagles game letting Westbrook go nuts), but Jason still had a knack for making bad decisions (the throw to end the Cowboys game, 2 bad picks vs. Tampa come to mind), had terrible timing on his throws (we very rarely saw many YAC from our WRs), bad deep ball accuracy (he missed Santana deep on a number of occasions), a propensity to fumble. The Chicago game was looking like it was about to be our 5th loss in a row with Jason behind center (many, including myself, said the Bears defense was too fast, and getting too much pressure for us to do anything) and once Todd came in he made the Bears defense pay for their aggressiveness and accumulated 224 yards and we ended up winning 24-16.

Wasn't Campbell injured in the second quarter of the Bears game? I consider that much to early to say we were on the way to losing. As for that Dallas game, I still remember that play. The defender had his hand on the recievers back and seemed to guide him past the ball. I still feel like that should have been some sort of interference call.

[MrJL]

and I have been watching for over 40 and he is absolutely the worst starting QB I have seen in a Skins uni IMO. Neither opinion proves a thing.

Shuler. At least with Campbell there's hope.

[wvtbred]

Shuler. At least with Campbell there's hope.

Hope that we waste more career players years like Chris' last 4?

No thanks too expensive for my taste.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Wasn't Campbell injured in the second quarter of the Bears game? I consider that much to early to say we were on the way to losing. As for that Dallas game, I still remember that play. The defender had his hand on the recievers back and seemed to guide him past the ball. I still feel like that should have been some sort of interference call.

Jason should have run, at worst it would have made for a 4th and short. He threw across his body, it was as much a bad decision as it was a good play by the defender. It seems like there's an excuse for everything Jason does from so many people, I used to give him the same excuses, but at the end of the day excuses get you nothing but disappointment. When all is said and done Jason hasn't gotten it done, along with the rest of the team, almost, and coulda, woulda, shoulda's make for good fantasies, but they aren't based on reality.

[MrJL]

Jason should have run, at worst it would have made for a 4th and short. He threw across his body, it was as much a bad decision as it was a good play by the defender. It seems like there's an excuse for everything Jason does from so many people, I used to give him the same excuses, but at the end of the day excuses get you nothing but disappointment. When all is said and done Jason hasn't gotten it done, along with the rest of the team, almost, and coulda, woulda, shoulda's make for good fantasies, but they aren't based on reality.

I prefer excuses to "should haves"

[Enter Apotheosis]

I prefer excuses to "should haves"

Excuses don't usually fly in the sports world (or anywhere else, for that matter) when you're simply not getting things done that need to be done.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

I prefer excuses to "should haves"

It's still an excuse.

[Wyvern]

why wouldn't Seattle take Clausen this year?

Hasselbeck is still somewhat serviceable -- and I think there's some pressure to take care of other spots. And that may be why the Seahawks signed Charlie Whitehurst (a four-year veteran) to a $10 million, two-year deal, while still publically committing to Hasselbeck. I see Whitehurst/Hasselbeck as placeholders until they can draft Locker.

But maybe I'm wrong -- and the Seahawks do take their QB this year. However, I'm sure there's a lot of Seattle's local media lobbying for the Seahawks to wait for Locker and then pulling out the stops to get him.

Also I wonder what Pete Carroll thinks of Clausen after "beating" him three times straight. True, Clausen did make it a little closer in 2009's contest in South Bend, but Clausen was benched before the Fighting Irish big loss in 2007 and in 2008 played miserably in total whipping administered by USC (In the 2008 game Clausen went 11-22 for 41 yards and 2 picks, one a pick-6). Not exactly glowing impressions.

Many in Southern Cal claim that Clausen is overrated. And I wonder how much that chatter might subconciously influence Carroll, who probably has some input into who the Seahawks draft.

[Renegade7]

One more point I'd like to make, Jason is the only QB that we've had where when the game is on the line and he has the ball that I find myself nearly crossing my fingers thinking, "Jason please don't screw this up, just make the right plays to get us to the endzone" and cringing in near horror while watching him.

HP, as much as I respect your opinion, posts like this drive me absolutely crazy, man. Maybe you're over exaggerating, or just pissed off, which I can understand. But JC is NOT the worst QB in redskins history, as some would like to believe. He has plenty of room for improvement, but he's definetly ahead of a lot of the redskins QBs since at least Brad Johnson left. I understand this pot has been on the stove long enough to worry about burning water, but it's truely rediculous to see you post that and even crazier to see people agree with you. If that's what you honestly believe, I won't hold it against you, nothing personal at all.

As for the poll, there's a reason there's only three options. Either we have a high draft pick from a horrible record; a mid-range pick for a mediocre season; or a low first rounder from being in the hunt for the playoffs or getting an actual spot in the playoffs. You are most likely to get the best QB prospect near the top of the draft with a high draft pick, like where we're sitting right now (we can at least all agree on that).

We're really basing a lot of our hope for success on offense in 2010 on a roster that hasn't been significantly upgraded, and our offense was one of the worst in the league last year (26th in points scored last year). If we're even going to be respectable next year, JC is going to have to be play a huge part of it. There's no way we'll end up with a mid-range or low first round draft pick next year if JC sucks in 2010.

So if we have a mid-range or low first rounder next year, it'll be because JC doesn't suck; ergo, why would we waste a first round draft pick on a QB if JC doesn't suck and we're winning football games? Because he's not Peyton Manning or Drew Brees? Please.

[authentic]

Jason should have run, at worst it would have made for a 4th and short. He threw across his body, it was as much a bad decision as it was a good play by the defender. It seems like there's an excuse for everything Jason does from so many people, I used to give him the same excuses, but at the end of the day excuses get you nothing but disappointment. When all is said and done Jason hasn't gotten it done, along with the rest of the team, almost, and coulda, woulda, shoulda's make for good fantasies, but they aren't based on reality.

I'm like you bro. Once a blinded supporter of JC, because of his personality and "potential", has really caused me to turn on him. He's had flashes of a really good QB, but alot of what he still does as a 5 year vet are still rookie mistakes. How many years are we going to pull out the "he doesn't have a good Oline" or "this is his X amount of systems in X amount of years" Card?... He's proven to me, that when the chips are on the line, he just doesn't get it done. Plain and simple.

[Gigantor]

So, I guess the question is: Are we going to suck so bad next year that we'll easily be able to replace a failed JC, or is this our only chance to do it for the forseable future?

If Shannahan has any brains at all, he will loose as many games as possible this year. He needs to do a 1991 Jimmy Johnson plan and go 1-15.

Load up on draft picks next year and have a dynasty for 3-4 years thereafter.

[Renegade7]

If Shannahan has any brains at all, he will loose as many games as possible this year. He needs to do a 1991 Jimmy Johnson plan and go 1-15.

Load up on draft picks next year and have a dynasty for 3-4 years thereafter.

Any brains? If he has any brains, he'll make the most out of what he has, and try to win with it and build on it. Coaches aren't paid to lose, they're paid to win. I totally disagree with you on this theory of intentionally losing to win. I'll never support that, ever.

Almost forgot, any remember Brunell's garbage years? How if we were down by 3 at the end of the game, rest assured we were still losing? '05 was a great year for him, but other then that, last drive of a game and we're down, it was over. And he's definetly not the only QB we've had here recently that was like that, just couldn't get it done. Out of bounds, ground ball, out of bounds, wtf was that?

JC has done some things that made me want to turn my back on him. But I'm not going to act like he's never won us games when we were down and needed him to step up. Even if I use the saints game a couple years ago as the only example, that's one more then many of you claim he's even capable of accomplishing.

JC is going to get it done next year. He'll have the protection and the coaching to make it work. And if I'm wrong, we'll have no problem replacing him. I'm looking to win next year, and we're not going to do that with a rookie QB and nobody able to protect him.

[authentic]

JC is going to get it done next year. He'll have the protection and the coaching to make it work. And if I'm wrong, we'll have no problem replacing him. I'm looking to win next year, and we're not going to do that with a rookie QB and nobody able to protect him.

I hope you're right. Or else we're royally screwed.

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

Ryan Mallett...the next big thing!

[Gigantor]

Any brains? If he has any brains, he'll make the most out of what he has, and try to win with it and build on it. Coaches aren't paid to lose, they're paid to win. I totally disagree with you on this theory of intentionally losing to win. I'll never support that, ever.

You're making this mostly about JC and it isn't. The "3 year plan" is a well established strategy to turn around a franchise. There are many examples. Cowgirls, Colts, Philthy, Chargers, etc.

Shannahan has a "license to fail" this year. It is a rebuilding year. So far he's going text book. Saving cap space, signing reliable vets, etc.

I think he's setting it up beautifully...

[Wyvern]

....We're really basing a lot of our hope for success on offense in 2010 on a roster that hasn't been significantly upgraded, and our offense was one of the worst in the league last year (26th in points scored last year). If we're even going to be respectable next year, JC is going to have to be play a huge part of it. There's no way we'll end up with a mid-range or low first round draft pick next year if JC sucks in 2010.

So if we have a mid-range or low first rounder next year, it'll be because JC doesn't suck; ergo, why would we waste a first round draft pick on a QB if JC doesn't suck and we're winning football games? Because he's not Peyton Manning or Drew Brees? Please.

This represents one school of thought, but it's "Campbell-centric." While the QB is normally the key factor in how a team performs during the season, I can see scenarios where the Skins can limp through to a middle-of-the-pack 2010 record even if Campbell is playing badly.

Maybe the running game of Portis and Johnson can carry Campbell & Co to victory until they wear down, and after we're back to relying on what Jason can do -- he doesn't rise to the occasion. Or maybe, Shanahan decides he needs to bench Jason and for a short while the team starts winning under the backup QB, but then starts to fade for whatever reason. (Maybe it's because Campbell has to be brought back in after an injury, or the backup QB simply comes back to earth, etc.)

And that's just two scenarios where we might do well record-wise, but Campbell plays badly. There's more. Maybe it's just a bunch of ugly wins where the defense bails out the offense being led by Campbell. Maybe we catch some teams when they're down. Maybe special teams win us a few and also the refs give us a game we actually lost. The list can go on.

Frankly, I think there will be enough upgrades to the team that however Campbell plays (and barring injuries to key players) the Skins should be better than 4-12. But unless a lot of players really step up their game in 2010 -- the tough schedule may level us out at around 8-8.

Anyhow, we're just speculating here, so who really knows? But one thing for sure,-- we are going to get some new young talent and it sure seems like the new coaches are intent on forging a real team, rather than a collection of individuals.

That alone, should move us out from the first five picks -- and as you see, we're already having trouble landing a franchise QB in 2010 with the #4 pick overall. So I'd hate to try it at the 15th pick, because we might wind up having to mortgage the future for a shot at the top pick.

[MrJL]

This represents one school of thought, but it's "Campbell-centric." While the QB is normally the key factor in how a team performs during the season, I can see scenarios where the Skins can limp through to a middle-of-the-pack 2010 record even if Campbell is playing badly.

Maybe the running game of Portis and Johnson can carry Campbell & Co to victory until they wear down, and after we're back to relying on what Jason can do -- he doesn't rise to the occasion. Or maybe, Shanahan decides he needs to bench Jason and for a short while the team starts winning under the backup QB, but then starts to fade for whatever reason. (Maybe it's because Campbell has to be brought back in after an injury, or the backup QB simply comes back to earth, etc.)

And that's just two scenarios where we might do well record-wise, but Campbell plays badly. There's more. Maybe it's just a bunch of ugly wins where the defense bails out the offense being led by Campbell. Maybe we catch some teams when they're down. Maybe special teams win us a few and also the refs give us a game we actually lost. The list can go on.

Frankly, I think there will be enough upgrades to the team that however Campbell plays (and barring injuries to key players) the Skins should be better than 4-12. But unless a lot of players really step up their game in 2010 -- the tough schedule may level us out at around 8-8.

Anyhow, we're just speculating here, so who really knows? But one thing for sure,-- we are going to get some new young talent and it sure seems like the new coaches are intent on forging a real team, rather than a collection of individuals.

That alone, should move us out from the first five picks -- and as you see, we're already having trouble landing a franchise QB in 2010 with the #4 pick overall. So I'd hate to try it at the 15th pick, because we might wind up having to mortgage the future for a shot at the top pick.

Can the mods please cut me a break here because I don't really know what I should trim here and I once got in trouble for quoting to much.

that is an awful lot of maybes you've got there. I mean you basically seem to think Campbell sucks, yet a backup QB who couldn't beat him out in camp is going to win NFL games. You're assuming significant upgrades in talent during a year when there's just no reason to. With no cap a team could choose to keep it's high price vet and his potential replacement till final cut down day and then release the one that isn't performing up to snuff. At that point in time it'd be pretty hard to expect them to come to the Skins, learn the system and perform.

There is zero reason to expect us to be better this year.