Art Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 The game was a good beating it seems. I was just listening and won't see the game for a week or so, but, it sounded like we were handled pretty well in most every phase of the game. Losing 20-0 and being handled pretty easily isn't as big a concern in my view though as what appears to be a continued fundamental stupidity. We are just a stupid team. We kill ourselves constantly, not that we did here necessarily. We drop easy first downs. We get an overabundance of holds and offsides. We waste time outs. You'd like to point to Spurrier and say it's his fault and if you are going to assign blame, he's the guy you'd assign it to. But, this is not a new thing here. We've been doing the same stuff for YEARS. We did it under Norv. We did it under Marty. We're doing it now. You kind of wonder what it will take to overcome the basic dumb play for the most part. What is the formula for getting the basic stuff ironed out? I actually appreciate that Spurrier kept the offense substantially under wraps tonight. It was nice to see Jackson calling the plays. I'm not disturbed by the shutout. I'm not even concerned about Davis' early runs. I'm concerned about the continued capacity we seem to have to blow things. If Ramsey doesn't have two early drops, perhaps we go up early. If we don't get bad holds or offsides when down close with Johnson, perhaps we get the momentum and win as the game alters. Not that winning matters. It's the look of it and the look is disturbing because this is supposed to be what we are focusing on now. We are supposed to be more disciplined. Guys are paying fines. These are the tricks that have worked elsewhere. It's not taking here. It'll be a long week with lots of bad press. In the end the preseason is meaningless, and the outcome is unimportant no matter how large the margin either way. What matters is we see our guys actually start to be smarter football players. If we can see that we'll have overcome what was our biggest problem last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 here here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Eh, preseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 What else matters? No injuries (I'm hoping Cloman isn't seriously hurt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 I mean, one real positive is that we escaped this game with no serious injuries. Thats always something that you're prayig for in a game. We've still got to look into Cloman to see what happened to him with his sholder though. In the end I think that Carolina just wanted it better than we did. When Jeff Bostic interviewed Lavar after they took him out of the game, he looked dissapointed but he was just like we were trying to run a basic defense and see how it measured up. I think thats kinda different from Carolina who was doing all they could to put pressure on us and disrupt our rhythm. The scores reflect this as they were pretty successful in doing what they were trying to do. But I dont think it says anything about the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Cloman did look O.K out there. Hopefully I can judge him better in later games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by Skins24 What else matters? No injuries (I'm hoping Cloman isn't seriously hurt) Dallas had Hunter break his arm in the first Qtr. Glenn dislocated his shoulder on the first series too. A bad preseason performance means little, injuries are important though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Art.. if Spurrier was serious about the fundamentals and wanted to fine players... screw this $10 crap. On a bad day... a player would screw up 3 times and pay $30. Give the appetite of an average 0-lineman.. that's probably just the dessert menu. Make it $100 at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 10, 2003 Author Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by luckydevi Eh, preseason LD, I know it's preseason and I'm certainly not going crazy over it. But, as I said, it's one thing not to score and to get scored on. Gibbs teams would blow in the preseason. The difference is they weren't stupid teams. We are. We were last year and have been for years. Spurrier has made a specific point of focusing the team on limiting those mistakes and instead we had more than ever. I realize almost all of them came from backups really, but still, it's something you'd like to see improved. Until it is visibly improved, it'll be my biggest worry about this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braves On Warpath Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Art- Nice way to see the glass as half full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 10, 2003 Author Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by Die Hard Art.. if Spurrier was serious about the fundamentals and wanted to fine players... screw this $10 crap. On a bad day... a player would screw up 3 times and pay $30. Give the appetite of an average 0-lineman.. that's probably just the dessert menu. Make it $100 at least I don't disagree with you at all. But, I think it's against league rules to fine players ANYTHING for practice field mistakes. The players have to agree to pay the fines and do it on their own. It can't be team sanctioned even though it actually is. The money goes to a team party anyway. Or that's my understanding of things at least. Could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Well I didn't watch the game, except on NFL.com without the friggin sound. So who played well from what I could see? 1. Sultan McCullough 9 for 50 yds. 5.6 avg., also had a 15 yd run nullified by a penalty. Should have had 10 for 65 yds, 6.5 2. Antonio Pierce - 2 forced fumbles. 3. Richmond Flowers and Scott Cloman were neck and neck and did all right, although they will have difficulty making the team. Other then that there wasn't to much to cheer about. I'm concernced about the same old crap we have seen over the years. When will we be able to stop the run? Yeah I know Trotter, Smith and Upshaw were not in the starting lineup.......but If we can't stop the run, teams are going to be able to dictate to us. On offense its too early to say yet, based on one game. But this is starting to drive me to drink. :40oz: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishomelette Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 pretty pathetic performance. I hope I didn't spit on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Where's ASF? Geez... he was ALL over Helton last year for not recognizing the talent level of the 0-line and upgrading it. Now that the team has... wonder how he feels now :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. D Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 watching the game give a unique perspective. When you get a chance see how LONG it takes for all our running plays to develope. Then see the RB hesitate as if he did not know where to run. The only back that did was Sultan (pronounced SOOL-tan) and then when Jackson was calling the plays. Most of our lineman were handled easily in one on one encounters. There is one more point to be made here is that the SCHEME seems to be inappropriate for the given application. For example: there is always a boatload of recievers out in patterns yet somehow theya re all covered? This means the patterns are too long AND that the line cannot hold blocks lonog enough. Then, when Carolina overloaded one side or the other there was noone to pick up the extra man...and boy do they get there in a hurry! No I seem to remember Gibbs adjusting to this by keeping in a tight end to act as an extra lineman. Too bad we dont have any tight ends with any beef. Speaking of tight ends they missed blocks all night and gosh darn it Flemister just "aligator armed "a third down conversion. is anyone out here getting the feeling that Spurrier et al are just in over their heads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Man I'm listening to the radio right now, everybody is freaking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 is anyone out here getting the feeling that Spurrier et al are just in over their heads? ......***preseason***...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Loosen up Bulldog -- BallCoachSpurrier is out of town. And Pu$$y Galore aint got nothing on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by Dr. D watching the game give a unique perspective. When you get a chance see how LONG it takes for all our running plays to develope. Then see the RB hesitate as if he did not know where to run. The only back that did was Sultan (pronounced SOOL-tan) and then when Jackson was calling the plays. Most of our lineman were handled easily in one on one encounters. There is one more point to be made here is that the SCHEME seems to be inappropriate for the given application. For example: there is always a boatload of recievers out in patterns yet somehow theya re all covered? This means the patterns are too long AND that the line cannot hold blocks lonog enough. Then, when Carolina overloaded one side or the other there was noone to pick up the extra man...and boy do they get there in a hurry! No I seem to remember Gibbs adjusting to this by keeping in a tight end to act as an extra lineman. Too bad we dont have any tight ends with any beef. Speaking of tight ends they missed blocks all night and gosh darn it Flemister just "aligator armed "a third down conversion. is anyone out here getting the feeling that Spurrier et al are just in over their heads? Just out of curiosity, what broadcast were you watching that gave you a unique perspective? If it was channel 4, millions of people in the DC area were watching the same feed - nothing unique about that. The ease with which they were getting penetration is, to me, the MOST concerning issue to come from the game. They always seemed to have someone coming free. It almost seemed to me that it was a "kitchen-sink" approach their D was taking - but we know that only Spurrier does that in the preseason. One of the ENCOURAGING things, though, was that, at least during the first half, receivers were getting open. And, when Ramsey was in, he was finding them. They weren't just open, they were OPEN - gapingly so. If the line doesn't do a better job, though, then, yes, they will make Spurrier et al look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runs with Scissors Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 We've been in camp for what 2 weeks? Starting QB has what 6 games under his belt? New RBs.. New #1 WR.. 2 New O-linemen Only playing 1 quarter. About what I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Well said Art. And truth be told I would rather get blown out in this game than have blown Carolina out. The coaches are going to use this night as a motivational tool. I have no doubt there will be some ass kicking in the next practice. Last year we looked all world until the last pre-season game, then when our flaws were exposed, it was too late. This way we have the rest of the pre-season to work out the kinks and we don't get over confident. I think we will be ready to play come time for the season opener. We are going to have our problems with the D line this year, that's a given. But the O will get better as the season progresses, we will win more games than last year, and we will fix the D line next year in time for a real run at the big dance. All according to plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 A couple of points.... Firstly, I'll agree with Art on his primary point. We are an undisciplined team. Other than a brief period under Marty, we've been undisciplined for the better part of a decade. Spurrier can't seem to decide on a freaking play, call it, and get it in in any reasonable period of time. Then he expects his 2nd year QB to read the D, audibilize, and be able to get the play off on time. When you see Jon Jansen jumping offsides because Ramsey can barely get to the line and get a snap count off, something is wrong. We HAVE to get a greater sense of urgency on offense and playcalling. Why is Hue J. calling plays anyway? Decide who your playcaller is and stop screwing around. Secondly, I watched the game, and our starters (hell, even most of our 2nd stringers) barely sniffed the ball. So the result, and most of our indepth analysis of the game, means very very little. I think its entirely possible that we'll lose every pre-season game and still go on to win in the regular season. Thirdly, we have to remember that although we failed to do much offensively, we were working (for a time) against one of the REAL top 10 defenses in the league. Peppers, for example, is a man child. Thus we shouldn't get major nosebleeds over that part of the game. When you see the highlight reels of the Ramsey-Coles hookup, you are going to be sporting a woody and know the potential for major scoring is going to be there. All those Rob Johnson haters (had you actually watched the game) would see a very capable performance. Russell also got major separation from defenders despite a mixed performance. Gardner was his usual automatic self on the few opportunities he got. Our special teams continue to suck in every way imaginable. I'm not concerned about our placekicker, but Barker needs to be gone. How many shanked punts are we going to see. He needs to be gone. period. Poor return coverage (we were very lucky not to have a runback). And our D....well....part of our problem was we showed up for a meaningless game. Stephen Davis and Skip Hicks were out to stick it to us. The performance was not encouraging, but again, our starters barely sniffed the field. Bottom line, we need to relax. Nothing that prompted our enthusiasm yesterday has fundamentally changed. We were a steamroller in preseason last year and it bought us an extended vacation in December. We are going to be respectable this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 If we had caught the ball on those first few drives when Ramsey was in there, then Carolina would have seen that blitzing was giving us so many open men and would have laid off some. But since we were dropping it and getting 3 and outs and short drives, it makes their defense look better so they kept bringing down the house which made our offense look a lot worse than it really is. I mean I'm not making excuses or anything, but remember we are facing a team that was second in the league last year. This aint no Arizona Cardinals.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 When you see the highlight reels of the Ramsey-Coles hookup, you are going to be sporting a woody and know the potential for major scoring is going to be there. I did, and I am. I know, I know... TOo much information. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 I really think the F-N-G is going to fail in the NFL (this has nothing to do with tonight's performance). You have to leave guys in to block in the NFL. If you dont then your QB will get killed and he will turn the ball over a lot. The F-N-G does not seem to work well in the red zone either. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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