Peyton Manning says Jason Campbell's sounded positive - guess not - MODS LOCK THIS

[SoCalSkins]

dude ...you are smart, I am almost sure of this.

THE REDSKINS ARE 0-14 AGANIST TEAMS WITH 10 OR MORE WINS ...

The Redskins are 2-14. Todd Collins happened to be the QB in the 2 wins.

Must be a coincidence unrelated to the QB's play.

[gortiz]

Jason Campbell's 2009 stats against teams that were 8-8 or worse:

1,804 yards, 10 TDs, 8 INTs.

That means he got half of his yards, half of his TDs and half of his INTs against teams that finished 8-8 or worse.

Teams that were below .500 only:

1,063 yards, 6 TDs, 5 INTs

No matter how you slice it, his #'s benefited enough from playing bad teams to throw out the line of thought that says that "his stats were 'however-much-better' behind a bad offensive line, so he'll be even 'this much' better behind a good offensive line."

Manning Feasts on the Weak

Peyton Manning has played against 9 defenses ranked 20th or worse against the pass, and he's torched them all. Numbers like Manning's 70% completion, 110.5 QB rating, and 20-5 touchdown-to-interception ratio could have Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and his 26th-ranked pass defense losing sleep trying to find a weakness

http://espn.go.com/blog/sportscenter/post/_/id/26916/manning-feasts-on-the-weak

:beatdeadhorse:

[#98QBKiller]

He is a consistently mediocre QB, yet the team puts him on the field.

That's his problem. He's consistently mediocre. Even after 5 years of NFL experience. That's not going to change suddenly no matter who we put around him.

[HailGreen28]

Uhh, that's the WCO bro. Slants, screens and outs were the centerpiece of the Sherm Lewis offense.

Minor nitpick, but I think the WCO lives or dies by getting the most YAC possible. That's why QBs *that can make quick releases consistently leading recievers and hitting them in stride* do well in the WCO. And those QBs that can't......don't.

Screens, slants, quick-ins, etc., RELY on YAC.

[#98QBKiller]

Manning Feasts on the Weak

http://espn.go.com/blog/sportscenter/post/_/id/26916/manning-feasts-on-the-weak

:beatdeadhorse:

Peyton Manning has played against 9 defenses ranked 20th or worse against the pass, and he's torched them all. Numbers like Manning's 70% completion, 110.5 QB rating, and 20-5 touchdown-to-interception ratio could have Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and his 26th-ranked pass defense losing sleep trying to find a weakness.

If Campbell's numbers looked like that, maybe this wouldn't be an issue.

[HailGreen28]

The Redskins are 2-14. Todd Collins happened to be the QB in the 2 wins.

Must be a coincidence unrelated to the QB's play.

You owe me a new (dry) keyboard. LOL.

[RedskinsTime]

Not true. The top 10 in that category consistently include WCO Qb's.

These top 10 quarterbacks have time to throw the ball downfield, and that's a fact not an excuse. Sherm Lewis called quick WR screens, slants, and TE bootlegs to nullify the obvious disadvantage of poor pass protection. This explains the large YAC numbers and the emergence of Fred Davis.

Many of the receivers JC threw to were predetermined. He had no checkdown.

Also keep in mind that I want nothing to do with JC on this team either. But, many of these criticisms are completely unwarranted.

[skinsdude]

dude ...you are smart, I am almost sure of this.

THE REDSKINS ARE 0-14 AGANIST TEAMS WITH 10 OR MORE WINS ...

THE REDSKINS ...

THE REDSKINS ...

THE REDSKINS ...

JC didn't ignore offensive lineman in the draft

JC didn't fumble the ball on the 1yd yard line against Cincy

JC didn't call to rerun the fake FG after the first fake FG attempt

JC didn't hire offensive and defensive coordinators before a coach was hire in 2008

JC didn't make the 2009 Redskin offense the most injured unit among all 32 teams

THE REDSKINS

Football is a team sport but NFL quarterbacks are judged by the most important stat, wins and losses. It's the only position on a football team that has his career win/loss record quoted. No one says that a left tackle or linebacker is 0-14 in his career. A quarterback has the ability to affect the outcome of a game more than any other position.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

These top 10 quarterbacks have time to throw the ball downfield, and that's a fact not an excuse. Sherm Lewis called quick WR screens, slants, and TE bootlegs to nullify the obvious disadvantage of poor pass protection. This explains the large YAC numbers and the emergence of Fred Davis.

Many of the receivers JC threw to were predetermined. He had no checkdown.

Also keep in mind that I want nothing to do with JC on this team either. But, many of these criticisms are completely unwarranted.

the point is accuracy. if aaron rodgers throws a slant, its in perfect stride to a guy streaking at full speed to maximize the YAC on the short throw.

when campbell throws a slant, its either off the mark, or poorly thrown causing our guy to contort his body around, slowing him down and making the YAC much less than it would be had the ball been thrown well.

[gortiz]

If Campbell's numbers looked like that, maybe this wouldn't be an issue.

dude ... seriously, wtf?

i really think, that if JC had the same numbers haters would simply say ...BIG DEAL, THOSE TEAMS SUCKED.

[RedskinsTime]

Minor nitpick, but I think the WCO lives or dies by getting the most YAC possible. That's why QBs *that can make quick releases consistently leading recievers and hitting them in stride* do well in the WCO. And those QBs that can't......don't.

Screens, slants, quick-ins, etc., RELY on YAC.

That's what I'm saying. Maybe I misunderstood SCS, but when he said JC was consistently one of the worst qbs in YAC, it led me to believe he was saying that most of his yards come from YAC because of wide open checkdowns to running backs. He's criticizing JC for having a lot of YAC. But correct me if I'm wrong.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Football is a team sport but NFL quarterbacks are judged by the most important stat, wins and losses. It's the only position on a football team that has his career win/loss record quoted. No one says that a left tackle or linebacker is 0-14 in his career. A quarterback has the ability to affect the outcome of a game more than any other position.

its why when you go on pro-football-reference.com they have a QBs W/L record there. and frankly the only people who claim that this stat is bogus are the campbell supporters because his record is terrible.

[gortiz]

Football is a team sport but NFL quarterbacks are judged by the most important stat, wins and losses. It's the only position on a football team that has his career win/loss record quoted. No one says that a left tackle or linebacker is 0-14 in his career. A quarterback has the ability to affect the outcome of a game more than any other position.

i get that, i really do, and i think socal's stats on the subject are valid.

but honeslty ... how could any QB be successful trying to lead this team, that makes a circus look organized, a team that reeks of dysfunction, to more wins than losses.

[SoCalSkins]

its why when you go on pro-football-reference.com they have a QBs W/L record there. and frankly the only people who claim that this stat is bogus are the campbell supporters because his record is terrible.

If they were consistent, that would be somewhat palatable. However, all they talked about in 2008 was the 6-2 start.

[HailGreen28]

Yeah but so did most of the other QB's.

There were a crapload of bad teams in the NFL this year......alot of good QBs played alot of bad teams this year.

Im not looking up the stats.......but im going to go ahead and assume most of the QBs with great stats put up much better stats against the crappy teams that they played.

Well, that kind makes the two stats I quoted relevant. The schedules are determined by division, and in some cases by rank with the same opposing divison. So you get a more accurate comparison of QBs by looking within the division.

Eli, Donovan, and tony all played the same teams we did, except where they actually played BETTER teams in an opposing division than we did, because we finished last in the division last season.

Candle finished 3rd in yardage among the four starting QBs in the NFCE. And 4th in TDs, last among starting QBs in the NFCE. I wouldn't be patting myself on the back too hard with those stats.

[#98QBKiller]

dude ... seriously, wtf?

Wtf what?

You post an article showing that Peyton Manning eats bad defenses alive, along with a "beating a dead horse" smiley, apparently to somehow let me know that (and I'm just guessing here) "Look! Peyton Manning's stats are better against bad teams too."

And I respond saying that if Campbell's looked like that against bad teams, (20-5 TD ratio! :yikes:) then this wouldn't be an issue. And I don't even mean that I expect Campbell to put up the same numbers that Peyton Manning does but jesus look at the stats for yourself.

What are you trying to prove by showing Manning's elite numbers against bad teams? It just makes Campbell look even worse.

[#98QBKiller]

its why when you go on pro-football-reference.com they have a QBs W/L record there. and frankly the only people who claim that this stat is bogus are the campbell supporters because his record is terrible.

But they'll throw out that 6-2 in 2008 stat in a heartbeat lol.

[jflow78]

I wonder if it was a question that mentioned JC or if Peyton just brought JC up as part of his answer.

Peyton Manning is a classy guy, I thought he was pretty funny from commercials and he seems like a normal dude, but when I heard the ESPN story about him writing letters to players who retired that he really respected, that's awesome.

[gortiz]

its why when you go on pro-football-reference.com they have a QBs W/L record there. and frankly the only people who claim that this stat is bogus are the campbell supporters because his record is terrible.

i agree, qb's probably can make the most difference on the outcome of a game, but i think that is the case only when the conditions are optimal.

name one qb that has consistently won with a similiar enviroment that the skins have had over the last five years?

by that, i mean more than 2 headcoaches, more than 3 Offensive coordinators, a front office as incompetent as the skins over the last five years (subjective, i know but bare with me) and with a track record of ignoring offensive lineman in the draft.

if you can name 3, WHICH I KNOW YOU CAN'T, that would still would be statistically insignificant considering all the qb's that have played for all 32 teams over the last five years.

[SoCalSkins]

i agree, qb's probably can make the most difference on the outcome of a game, but i think that is the case only when the conditions are optimal.

name one qb that has consistently won with a similiar enviroment that the skins have had over the last five years?

by that, i mean more than 2 headcoaches, more than 3 Offensive coordinators, a front office as incompetent as the skins over the last five years (subjective, i know but bare with me) and with a track record of ignoring offensive lineman in the draft.

if you can name 3, WHICH I KNOW YOU CAN'T, that would still would be statistically insignificant considering all the qb's that have played for all 32 teams over the last five years.

If the team is winning they don't make changes.

The one consistent common denominator in the Redskins losing since 2005 has been Jason Campbell.

The Redskins are a winning team since then when he has not played. They have also played in 3 playoff games.

They are a losing team with him behind center.

6-18 over the last 24 games. That is not an acceptable W/L record for the Redskins.

Whether it is all his fault or not doesn't matter. It is time for a change.

[SKINchiefer]

He deserves some props and recognition for the **** he has put up with. Alternating coordinators plus insignificant, if any, upgrades to the offense, regardless of coaching (unless you're shanahan), can't be a walk in the park. New decade w/ new the perfect coaches = new JC. Stamp it ES.

[SoCalSkins]

He deserves some props and recognition for the **** he has put up with. Alternating coordinators plus insignificant, if any, upgrades to the offense, regardless of coaching (unless you're shanahan), can't be a walk in the park.

He has been coddled from day 1.

Those changes were made for him.

The team invested everything in Jason. They destroyed the coaching staff Gibbs built in order to develop him as a QB.

They traded up into the 1st rd and picked him when no one else valued him that much.

They traded a former 1st rd pick away so he could take over #2 without competition.

They kept him as starter without competition despite going to the playoffs after he was injured.

The Redskins have treated him better than he ever could have hoped for. He was hand picked by a Skins legend and was handed everything without ever competing for it.

[gortiz]

Whether it is all his fault or not doesn't matter. It is time for a change.

i agree ...

BUT

I dont' think the guy got a fair shake and I think under this Front Office and under zorn, peyton manning would have been no better than 12-12 the last 24 games.

[zCommander]

It looks like to me this thread is no longer about Manning and the so called HUGH prop he gave JC. :beatdeadhorse: <--I love this smiley.

[[[ghost]]]

its why when you go on pro-football-reference.com they have a QBs W/L record there. and frankly the only people who claim that this stat is bogus are the campbell supporters because his record is terrible.

Out of curiosity:

If the Redskins go 13-3 next season with a legendary run game and a solid, but still less than stellar passing game, will you attribute those wins to Campbell if he's at the helm for all of those wins?

Suppose he throws for 3500+ but still gets only about 20 TDs, but less than 5 INTs. Would you, BLC, acknowledge that he is THE quarterback for the Skins, due to the fact that he just led the team to a fantastic season.

This is all hypothetical, and I just want to know what you personally would say. Not an attack or a call out, just a question of philosophy.