Some JC Bashers are just sad,....

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The smartest people I know tend to "flip-flop" quite a bit. They think that their opinions should be dictated by facts made available to them and, since new facts are be made available each day, their opinions should be tweaked, modified, or totally changed accordingly.

That's not to say the NewCliche is a genius or that you are not (I don't know either of you well enough to comment on your intelligence). I just want to point out that it's usually a good idea to be open-minded and, for better or for worse, being open-minded sometimes results in flipping and flopping.

flip flopping is a sign of being unsure. or its a sign of making snap judgments without enough evidence. when looking at campbell, we have a massive body of work, almost 50 games worth. theres no need to be flip flopping on a guy with such a large sample.

which is why this week im baffled, that a guy whos put together 2 nice games in a row is somehow alleviated from all of the poor play hes had in the past.

i feel like im at camden yards in 2008 and daniel cabrera just won his 2nd game in a row, and everyone is telling me hes our potential ace.

[SoCalSkins]

:rotflmao:

I NEVER root for the Skins to lose.

You are far more short sighted than any accusations made against Vinny or Dan in their decisions.

The fact that you hold this position shows you are as rational about the long term success of the team as a 6 year old. Maybe that is why you can communicate so often with the pukes fans that come around. You apparently share their same limits of understanding basic concepts.

[terpskins10]

I hated the Cult. HATED that ****ing Cult. ****ing locusts.

I liked everything you said, but THIS made laugh out loud. A lot. lol

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You won't be upset if we lose? :rotflmao:

Look, JC has his issues, but Cooley just gave him a big thumbs up...with the right cast around him, we can be competitive and even win (see first six games of 2008.) He's tougher than nails.

He's a ****ing Redskin.

Show some respect.

why would i be upset? who cares if we go 4-12 or 7-9, it aint the playoffs so it doesnt matter.

cooley is his friend, hes not gonna bash the guy.

lol at "we can be competitive and even win". its just blatantly clear that i want more than you do. you dont care as long as its the redskins playing. thats not enough for me.

and i dont care what team he plays for, if hes not producing at the level that i as a fan want to see, i want him gone. id want any redskin gone that wasnt living up to potential. im sure you were defending adam archuleta in 06 because "he was a ******* redskin".

[tr1]

You are far more short sighted than any accusations made against Vinny or Dan in their decisions.

The fact that you hold this position shows you are as rational about the long term success of the team as a 6 year old. Maybe that is why you can communicate so often with the pukes fans that come around. You apparently share their same limits of understanding basic concepts.

Dear lordie...I have NEVER seen a fan root AGAINST his team.

It doesn't make ANY sense.

So, keep rooting for us to lose...if, that's your thing.

:rotflmao:

[DarrellsMyHero28]

You won't be upset if we lose? :rotflmao:

Look, JC has his issues, but Cooley just gave him a big thumbs up...with the right cast around him, we can be competitive and even win (see first six games of 2008.) He's tougher than nails.

Disagreeing with your sentiments that we can win in the long run with JC doesn't mean he's not a Skins fan.

I personally agree with you tr1 but I certainly can see where BLC is coming from. Losing could help this team in the long run, it will give us a better draft pick and may finally get Snyder to get rid of Vinny.

Again, I agree with you and I (like BLC) can't root for us to lose...but there are certain players on this team that just plain stink and I want gone.

For BLC its Jason Campbell, for me its guys like Landry.

[Chicken Fried]

Jason Campbell Rating: 89 TD/Int: 17/12 Yards per game: 226

Matt Cassell Rating: 68.3 TD/Int: 13/13 Yards per game: 183

Mark Sanchez Rating: 63.7 TD/Int: 11/17 Yards per game: 170

Jay Cutler Rating: 75.2 TD/Int: 19/22 Yards per game: 232

Are you trying to make JC look better by comparing him to arguably three of the worst performing QBs in the league? That shows you how bad JC really is. It's also sad that his stats are barely better; in some cases, they're worse.

[Madison Redskin]

flip flopping is a sign of being unsure. or its a sign of making snap judgments without enough evidence. when looking at campbell, we have a massive body of work, almost 50 games worth. theres no need to be flip flopping on a guy with such a large sample.

which is why this week im baffled, that a guy whos put together 2 nice games in a row is somehow alleviated from all of the poor play hes had in the past.

i feel like im at camden yards in 2008 and daniel cabrera just won his 2nd game in a row, and everyone is telling me hes our potential ace.

I agree that Campbell has a large body of work, but he's been so inconsistent that I don't know what to make of him. During the first half of last season and the latter half of this season, he looked like an average to above average quarterback. During the first half of this season and the latter half of last season, he looked like a piss poor quarterback.

Is that inconsistency attributable to injuries, the performance of surrounding players, the strength of schedule, the playcalling, or some combination of those and certain other factors? I don't know, but the inconsistency is there. He's bad enough at times to make you want to throw your fist through a wall and he's good enough at other times to make you think that maybe, just maybe, he's not the source of all evil in the world and should be re-signed.

[NewCliche21]

flip flopping is a sign of being unsure. or its a sign of making snap judgments without enough evidence. when looking at campbell, we have a massive body of work, almost 50 games worth. theres no need to be flip flopping on a guy with such a large sample.

which is why this week im baffled, that a guy whos put together 2 nice games in a row is somehow alleviated from all of the poor play hes had in the past.

i feel like im at camden yards in 2008 and daniel cabrera just won his 2nd game in a row, and everyone is telling me hes our potential ace.

It's not flip-flopping. It's going by what is current, not changing my opinion based on popularity or lack thereof. Did you see the hate that Taylor got in 2006? Check my posts and see if I ever doubted the man. I was very, very alone at that point.

My opinion isn't based on anyone else's. Campbell has gotten better these last four games, but if he effs it up, then I'll be right back with you because he will be have become what you say that he is. I have no agenda aside from getting a fourth Lombardi.

[NewCliche21]

Are you trying to make JC look better by comparing him to arguably three of the worst performing QBs in the league? That shows you how bad JC really is. It's also sad that his stats are barely better; in some cases, they're worse.

. . . those were all quarterbacks that ES was clamoring after. Willing to give up a first round, or even multiple first round, picks for.

:doh:

[NewCliche21]

I liked everything you said, but THIS made laugh out loud. A lot. lol

Dude, I swear to G-d; the Cult almost made me HAPPY when Brennan looked awful this year. I've never said "I told you so" about a player failing on our team, but damn, I wanted to!

[Spear]

Jason Campbell: "The game is slowing down for me."

Jim Zorn: "The Kansas City game was a turning point for him."

Jim Zorn: "I'm very encouraged about how he's stepped his game up."

[ExoDus84]

He started the year 6-2 last year.

Were you a fan then?

What I was back then was hopeful. I was hopeful JC had finally turned that mythical corner everybody was talking about. Then it collapsed, and we know the result of last season.

Next, this season started. It was the second year in the WCO, and Campbell was supposed to light everything up and lead us to the playoffs. Instead, the absolute mediocrity of the offense continued on from week 8 of 2008, all the way till about 3 weeks ago this season, with much more losing than I have the stomach for.

I've watched every one of his games. He's not consistent, and he can't win unlesss everything around him is going well. This is the NFL, and sometimes you have to just pull a win from the clutches of defeat. I've never seen campbell do that. Conversely, going back to last year, every time we were down by a score, under the 2-minute mark, I've noticed quite the disturbing pattern: JC fumbling, or throwing an INT, or otherwise failing to lead our offense into scoring position when it mattered the most. Those are the kinds of games Big Ben has made a career off of winning, and the reason why he has 2 rings. Physically, Big Ben probably isnt more talented than JC, but the man is clutch. He can pull tricks out of a hat and come away with a win when his team needs him the most. I want a QB like that. JC isn't that.

Sometimes man, you just need to have a QB who can put the team all on his back and carry it to victory. You can't rely on the defense to dominate every game. You can't rely on your RB to get 200 yards and 3 TD's. You have to be able to rely on your QB to get things done on his own, and we've seen time, and time again, JC can't do it on his own.

[NewCliche21]

Jason Campbell: "The game is slowing down for me."

Jim Zorn: "The Kansas City game was a turning point for him."

Jim Zorn: "I'm very encouraged about how he's stepped his game up."

To be fair, no player or coach would say otherwise.

[tr1]

why would i be upset? who cares if we go 4-12 or 7-9, it aint the playoffs so it doesnt matter.

Yeah, I guess closing out on a positive is never a good thing...

cooley is his friend, hes not gonna bash the guy.

If he didn't believe it, he wouldn't have posted anything...try again.

lol at "we can be competitive and even win". its just blatantly clear that i want more than you do. you dont care as long as its the redskins playing. thats not enough for me.

It never is. Perhaps Jesus is available as a free agent? :rotflmao:

and i dont care what team he plays for, if hes not producing at the level that i as a fan want to see, i want him gone. id want any redskin gone that wasnt living up to potential. im sure you were defending adam archuleta in 06 because "he was a ******* redskin".

JC is playing very well since the o-line has gelled a bit. Look at his rating. He's probably been the only consistently good thing on offense on this team this year.

I'm sorry you're to blinded by the hate to see this.

The league is noticing.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I agree that Campbell has a large body of work, but he's been so inconsistent that I don't know what to make of him.

so after 50 games of inconsistency, you dont know what to make of him? doesnt that strike you as kinda funny?

i remember i asked elkabong early on when was enough enough with campbell, and plenty still seem to wanna see more. i always ask this and no one has answered but him: when is enough enough? does he need to now play almost 70 games for you to know what the deal is?

sooner or later you have to accept what he is, and a lot of you just refuse to do so.

[Madison Redskin]

Are you trying to make JC look better by comparing him to arguably three of the worst performing QBs in the league? That shows you how bad JC really is. It's also sad that his stats are barely better; in some cases, they're worse.

Dude, his stats are pretty ******* good this year. I'll admit that stats don't tell the whole story, but don't pretend that he looks bad statistically (even if it pains you greatly to say anything nice about him).

[bigyim]

IThis all has been talked about at length before and is nothing new, but debating if JC is a bad/good/great QB is pointless, he is what he is. He will struggle against a team that plays man, checks the receivers at the line, and has good coverage. He will excel against teams that play zone. One of the HUGE reasons Zorn has to call crappy plays in the redzone is because of this.

Not that I don't believe you, but didn't you just describe what Oakland plays?

Either they don't do it well enough, or Campbell found a way to play pretty decent against them, anyway.

Also, what's the % of teams who still play straight man coverage most of the time? Bump and Run seems to be a thing of the past in today's NFL...at least, as a standard base defense.

[tr1]

Sometimes man, you just need to have a QB who can put the team all on his back and carry it to victory. You can't rely on the defense to dominate every game. You can't rely on your RB to get 200 yards and 3 TD's. You have to be able to rely on your QB to get things done on his own, and we've seen time, and time again, JC can't do it on his own.

You're right...JC can't do it on his own.

It's a team sport. When he has NFL caliber talent around him, he does pretty well.

Funny how it works.

[Chicken Fried]

I'm amazed at the statements that JC has only been good for the last 2 to 3 games or that he's very inconsistent.

What is inconsistent is

1: The memories of most of the posters on the site.

2: The aptitude or level of fundamental football concepts.

Between the last 6 games of 2008 and the first 7 of 2009: JC has played under arguably, the worst line in the NFL , a non existent running game and amateurish play calling (laughable as best).

He has been and should be applauded to have lived through it – as no other NFL QB could have been successful under those conditions – None!

Over the last 5 years we have seen how even the smallest amount of pressure disrupts the most prolific offenses and QBs in the league.

See Peyton Manning and the Steelers or Tom Brady’s and NE’s perfect season crumble around NY’s defensive line.

What has Changed?

Within the last 5 games we have seen:

• Sherm Lewis (s) offense bloom into what appears to be a basic pro offense (better than what we had).
  
• The O-Line has provided more time – resulting in deeper (longer developing) and more consistent WR patterns as well as (to say the lest the occasional QB pocket)
  
• The O-Line has provided more up front push - resulting in a more successful running game – and a sellable play action.
  

Very short list -

He may not be a top 10 QB (yet),.. but he’s not garbage.

What’s sad,.. is that most of the folks who bashed JC. Would have traded their left tennis ball to have Matt Cassel last off season…..

oh that’s right ..a consistent system, protection and a competent running game doesn’t mean anything…..

Don't question my football aptitude. I'd like to bet that your's is significantly lower than most on here.

Yes, let's applaud JC for "surviving" and playing mediocre. Cheers!

The smallest amount of pressure does not crumble prolific offenses in the least. A small amount of pressure is nothing for a QB who thinks quickly and gets the ball out accurately.

Yeah, I'd still trade my left nut for Cassell. He's playing with the CHIEFS! They are atrocious in every respect of the game. Tom Brady would have the same stats with that team. JC would never have put up the season Cassell did in NE.

The thing I don't understand is how everyone hops back on the JC bandwagon after two decent games. Look back at the REST of his career, and then you'll see why us "no fundamental football knowledge guys" don't like him as our QB.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

It's not flip-flopping. It's going by what is current, not changing my opinion based on popularity or lack thereof. Did you see the hate that Taylor got in 2006? Check my posts and see if I ever doubted the man. I was very, very alone at that point.

My opinion isn't based on anyone else's. Campbell has gotten better these last four games, but if he effs it up, then I'll be right back with you because he will be have become what you say that he is. I have no agenda aside from getting a fourth Lombardi.

i have already admitted hes played well the past 2 games, but that doesnt mean hes good or turned a corner. weve seen him have these type of games in the past sporadically and this is nothing new.

i guess im still looking at him in the bigger picture than just a few games. i still think hes a poor QB regardless of his recent efforts.

[NewCliche21]

i have already admitted hes played well the past 2 games, but that doesnt mean hes good or turned a corner. weve seen him have these type of games in the past sporadically and this is nothing new.

i guess im still looking at him in the bigger picture than just a few games. i still think hes a poor QB regardless of his recent efforts.

You and I are on the same side, but you just want a bigger body of work of consistently good quarterback play against non-Raiders teams.

It makes sense, really.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Not that I don't believe you, but didn't you just describe what Oakland plays?

Either they don't do it well enough, or Campbell found a way to play pretty decent against them, anyway.

Also, what's the % of teams who still play straight man coverage most of the time? Bump and Run seems to be a thing of the past in today's NFL...at least, as a standard base defense.

JC struggled at times against oakland because it was a man scheme, but also remember their shutdown corner missed a good chunk of the game, which surely helped our passing game out (considering just how good asomugah is).

this game was denver take II. close game with their starter QB, and once gradkowski went out the game was over. oakland went backwards and we just ran the ball and scored easy points. exactly the same thing happened against denver.

[Santana_Fan]

Cutler is a franchise QB though. More talented than Brady he just can't rely on any of his receivers. Didn't you know that already?

Cutler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Campbell, Orakpo, Jarmon, plus whoever we draft next year ZOMGGG

In all seriousness, though, if there was a 89.0 vs. 75.2 QBR discrepancy between any other two QBs, the first QB would be hands down the better QB in this board's eyes. But because it's Campbell v. Cutler, the "numbers don't matter".

But Cutler has a quick release :mad:

[ExoDus84]

You're right...JC can't do it on his own.

It's a team sport. When he has NFL caliber talent around him, he does pretty well.

Funny how it works.

Good job of ignoring the larger point. You are pretty good at that, TR. :hysterical: