Do you really need anti-virus software?

[Springfield]

This is a yes or no question, but I have a feeling that it will induce a bit of conversation. I also think I'll be flamed for my opinion on anti-virus software.

I don't think that I (me, personally) need anti-virus software. I don't download porn, I don't stream porn, my computer has never seen an adult page. That's just me personally of course. I don't open e-mails from senders I don't know (hell, most of my e-mailing is done from my iPhone these days). I usually only visit sites that I've visited before without any problems. I don't click the links on websites that claim, "You've won $100,000" or "Meet hot singles in your area". Hell, I don't click any banner ads for that matter.

Why should I need anti-virus software? Why should I need anti-spyware software? Why should I need any of the anti-thisorthat software?

I get the feeling that most of the "need" for anti-virus software is based on fear tactics. If you don't have it, your computer will be vulnerable to a whole litany of bad things that will of course... do bad things.

Furthermore, I think that most of the "mainstream" anti-virus software is nothing more than a system hog. I think that this software slows down the average computer much, much more than it helps. On my old system which was Windows XP that had 2 gig of RAM, Norton would normally consume something like 60 MB of those two 2 gigs, which was well more than most other programs when I was just surfing the web. Add to that, over the 4 years that I had Norton, I was never once alerted that I had a virus in my system.

So... No. I don't think you need anti-virus software. I don't think you'll get much for your money unless you are hunting for trouble. To my understanding, most viruses come from a "user error"... meaning that the user clicked on the "yes" or "confirm" that allowed a virus to get into the computer.

I'm no computer programmer, but I can say I know a thing or two about how networks work and computers in general. The only anti-anything program I have installed on my machine is PeerGuardian 2, but that is for different reasons than blocking a virus. I did a fresh install of Windows 7 about 2 months ago and I haven't installed any anti-virus software yet, I'm not sure I ever will. You could call it living dangerously, I call it saving money.

[Smoot Point Really]

I think you are okay... Everyone knows the only way to catch a virus is to surf for porn.

[Springfield]

I think you are okay... Everyone knows the only way to catch a virus is to surf for porn.

I won't say it's the only way, but it's the most likely way. There are other ways to do it as well. Just like there are "safe" ways to surf for porn.

[Smoot Point Really]

Ok, I was joking above... Don't make this mistake. If you have Microsoft, they offer free antivirus... The only way to guarantee you won't get a virus is to nothook up to the 'net at all.

[Springfield]

Ok, I was joking above... Don't make this mistake. If you have Microsoft, they offer free antivirus... The only way to guarantee you won't get a virus is to nothook up to the 'net at all.

I realize that the general perception is that if you do not have anti-virus, your chances of getting a virus is greatly increased. I think that those claims are overblown, that if you surf wisely you won't have much of a problem at all.

[Larry]

Yes, you need anti-virus software. (At least, as long as you're running Windows you do. And I'm not an expert, but my gut feeling is that with a Mac or Linux, there's a risk, too. It's just not near as much.)

Practicing safe procedures will certainly reduce your risk. (I'd list "not using IE" as one of those practices, too.)

But, for example, your "I only open email from people I know" statement.

The way email viruses spread is that when the virus gets into a system, the first thing the virus does is to email itself to everybody in the address book.

Now, suppose that you have never in your entire life done anything dumb. However, suppose that Predicto has sent you email in the past, and you're in his address book.

Now Predicto gets an email virus. (Never mind where.) First thing the virus does is email itself to everybody in Predicto's address book.

Congratulations, your inbox now contains an email from Predicto, a person you've corresponded with in the past, which contains a virus.

Another threat: Your statement that you only visit web sites that you trust.

Are you certain of that? Say you visit CNN.com. Do you trust every company that has an advertisement on cnn.com? CNN.com has advertising on their pages. And many of those advertisements come from unsavory companies. Many of them are simply content to give you a cookie so they can track your web browsing. But some of them put scripts on their advertisements.

(Although a good ad blocker, and a script blocker, will cut down on a lot of those.)

----------

Now, as to your claim of a performance hog?

I recommend Norton to all of my customers. And I'll tell them right up front that Norton is a HUGE resource hog. It takes forever to boot, and it will slow things down a bunch if you don't have a pretty good system.

I recommend it because, IMO, the risks of a Windows system without a really good protection are worse than the admittedly big performance hit.

[Mooka]

You personally don't.

Maaaaaaaany people do. And I know because I've cleaned out more computers then I can count. And of course, you're talking strictly about PCs. You wouldn't leave your entire company unprotected and just be happy sending out a memo about opening stupid emails.

I agree about anti-virus software though. Much of it sucks. I had to fix my brother's laptop once because his Norton automatic updater went beserk and wouldn't stop updating. It somehow damaged a bunch of his drivers.

[NeueRedskinWelle]

Anti-virus is not needed to be on your computer 24/7 while you surf. It's good practice to have one running as a "just in case", but you only really NEED anti-virus software when you have, or think you have a virus.

What you do need is to practice smart internet surfing, and a firewall.

[ixcuincle]

Yes you do.

And it's free too so you can just install it just to play it safe

[Larry]

I realize that the general perception is that if you do not have anti-virus, your chances of getting a virus is greatly increased. I think that those claims are overblown, that if you surf wisely you won't have much of a problem at all.

Read a report, several years ago, from a company that was measuring the performance of the Internet.

And one of the things they discovered, after collecting data for weeks from multiple locations on the Internet, was that over 80% of the packets on the Internet are failed penetration attempts.

(Not 80% of all data. Just 80% of all packets. The packets were simply sent to random IP addresses with random port numbers, simply to see if they got a response. Such "port scans" are really small packets, so they constitute considerably less than 80% of bandwidth. But they indicate that there's a lot of people simply looking at random for any opening they can find.)

That said, I do think you're somewhat correct, too. I strongly recommend Norton. But I can't remember the last time my Norton caught anything that wasn't in one of the thousands of spam emails I get every day. (Until recently, when I closed down the email address that the spammers used to love, I was getting a virus-infected email roughly every 5 minutes, 24x7.)

[rebornempowered]

No. You don't. I have never had a virus in all my years of not using anti-virus software.

I don't surf questionable sites and I use web based email that has virus scanning as part of its service.

[twa]

I realize that the general perception is that if you do not have anti-virus, your chances of getting a virus is greatly increased. I think that those claims are overblown, that if you surf wisely you won't have much of a problem at all.

It is overblown for a careful user that makes copies of important documents and surfs wisely.

Most people do not do so:D

Why take the risk though when you can simply use a free version that doesn't hog resources?

[Springfield]

Practicing safe procedures will certainly reduce your risk. (I'd list "not using IE" as one of those practices, too.)

But, for example, your "I only open email from people I know" statement.

The way email viruses spread is that when the virus gets into a system, the first thing the virus does is to email itself to everybody in the address book.

Now, suppose that you have never in your entire life done anything dumb. However, suppose that Predicto has sent you email in the past, and you're in his address book.

Now Predicto gets an email virus. (Never mind where.) First thing the virus does is email itself to everybody in Predicto's address book.

Congratulations, your inbox now contains an email from Predicto, a person you've corresponded with in the past, which contains a virus.

I will agree that IE isn't good. IE8 is supposed to be "safe", but that's just what we are told... like "Everyone needs anti-virus software". Point one.

As far as the e-mail statement. Say Predicto is my friend and I regularly exchange e-mails with him. If I get a random e-mail from him, sure I'd open it. When I open it, I'd likely see a link and perhaps some jibberish that I can't understand. I wouldn't open that link. Most "real" e-mails will contain content as it relates to you.

That said, I don't use e-mail excessively to keep in contact with friends or co-workers. I don't get "random" e-mails all that often.

Another threat: Your statement that you only visit web sites that you trust.

Are you certain of that? Say you visit CNN.com. Do you trust every company that has an advertisement on cnn.com? CNN.com has advertising on their pages. And many of those advertisements come from unsavory companies. Many of them are simply content to give you a cookie so they can track your web browsing. But some of them put scripts on their advertisements.

I will click a link in an article I'm reading. Say I'm reading something here from ES and it has a link to the article... I'll click that. If the article has a link to a source, I'll click on that too. Say that article on CNN.com has a advertiser link (a la banner ad) on the page, I won't ever click those. If it's something that sounds super interesting, I'll google it. If there is a link on a page that I don't normally visit and I'm questioning it, I'll scroll over the link and see what IP address it links me to. If that IP address sounds questionable, I'll forgo clicking on it.

Now, as to your claim of a performance hog?

I recommend Norton to all of my customers. And I'll tell them right up front that Norton is a HUGE resource hog. It takes forever to boot, and it will slow things down a bunch if you don't have a pretty good system.

I recommend it because, IMO, the risks of a Windows system without a really good protection are worse than the admittedly big performance hit.

I'm honestly surprised by your opinion of Norton. Most of the people I've talked to and reports I've read say that Norton isn't great protection compared to the rest of the "mainstream" anti-virus software out there. I hear that Kasperspy and Avast are both very good companies as it relates to what they actually catch.

[Springfield]

It is overblown for a careful user that makes copies of important documents and surfs wisely.

Most people do not do so:D

Why take the risk though when you can simply use a free version that doesn't hog resources?

I back up all of the important stuff. To be honest, I don't have much really important stuff stored on my PC.

If it was infected, I'd be upset because I'd lose all of my music... that would be about it though. I do my banking online, so my password could be stolen, but that would take some kind of phishing software I'd assume. I've never been phished before, but I can only assume that if I logged onto my banking website, something would be weird.

To be honest, I'd be much more upset if my ES password was stolen and I wasn't able to log on and chat it up with the great people here.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Springfield, you don't need anti-virus much in the same way that you don't need health insurance. If you're an extremely cautious individual who engages primarily in low-risk activities you may never get a virus. However, without some sort of safeguard in place you're going to have a hell of a problem on your hands if some sort of freak accident occurs or you fall victim to the ignorance or malicious intent of another. The big difference is that you don't actually have to pay anything to receive adequate computer virus protection.

System resource use shouldn't even factor in to the use/not use decision as you can always find a program that does not tax system performance. Really, there's no reason not to have it at least as a precaution and there shouldn't even be a debate about it.

And I'm not an expert, but my gut feeling is that with a Mac or Linux, there's a risk, too. It's just not near as much.

Your risk with a Mac is much lower than it is with Windows but is still very real. With Linux your risk is almost negligible but still an extremely remote possibility.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I do my banking online, so my password could be stolen, but that would take some kind of phishing software I'd assume. I've never been phished before, but I can only assume that if I logged onto my banking website, something would be weird.

Or a keylogger... and there are plenty of those around. Phishing/social engineering is probably a more reliable way for people to target account information, though.

[10fttall]

Just get AVG. AVG has a very good free anti-virus program that is very light on the resources and speed. I've had it for years on several computers and it is great.

If you just get email and go to ES and CNN.com, then you MAY never need it. But you mean to say you never surf AT ALL? You never Google pumpkin pie recipes, or look up the Bugatti Veron, or click on any other links other than well known sites?

Even big trusted sites could get hacked and send spyware, adware, or viruses to your computer. Your email buddies could get a virus. There are thousands of things that could happen to a "safe surfer." Get a good (free) spyware scanner and you'd probably be surprised at what it finds. If not outright viruses, I'm sure you've acquired some tracking cookies and useless background counters or other resource hogs.

[Springfield]

Another question...

Who has actually been notified by their anti-virus software that they had a virus? Did they find out where it came from? What were the results after it was "removed"?

[sean_e_b]

Just get AVG. AVG has a very good free anti-virus program that is very light on the resources and speed. I've had it for years on several computers and it is great.

Same here. I had Norton for the longest and hated how slow it made my computer. I've also used McAfee and it's just as bad as Norton is. Listen to this guy and download AVG for free. I'm sure you go to sites you don't know more often than you think, so don't risk getting a virus, especially if the music on your computer isn't exactly obtained "the legal way".

[stevenaa]

Norton is horrible. I've seen it cause more problems than you can imagine. McAfee is a close second.

[kameuh]

Yes you need some form of anti-virus software even if you do not surf porn.

The last two times my machine has been infected was by banner ads or other random background advertisements on "reputable" websites.

Granted half my problem was not actually updating windows vulnerabilities or having any anti-virus software installed.

The first infection was a particular kinda nasty. An ad from the telegraph (UK paper) started running script while I was cutting the lawn. My poor old machine (may it RIP) became part of a botnet sending out massive email spam to thousands of people, or well that was the intent.

Anyways I learned a few lessons from this that I will share.

First, any website can be compromised without the knowledge of the owners no matter how reputable or secure you believe it is.

Second, use some form of firewall/anti-virus software. The basic windows firewall and regular security patches, is better than nothing.

Third, when you purchase a computer do not buy one with a separate partition for a new windows install, make damn sure you get, or before connecting to the Internet for the first time, restoration disks. If your machine has a separate partition, you are allowed to have like two copies. If you do not have them atm, make some, now, especially if you aren't using any form of protection.

Finally, don't start registry editing your machine without said backup disks. :doh:

In the end, the hacker won, as my machine was slightly fubar after I regained control.

[Larry]

I will agree that IE isn't good. IE8 is supposed to be "safe", but that's just what we are told... like "Everyone needs anti-virus software". Point one.

As far as the e-mail statement. Say Predicto is my friend and I regularly exchange e-mails with him. If I get a random e-mail from him, sure I'd open it. When I open it, I'd likely see a link and perhaps some jibberish that I can't understand. I wouldn't open that link. Most "real" e-mails will contain content as it relates to you.

Problem is, at least if you're using Outloot or Outlook Express, then the instant you click on the email, you're infected. (You don't even have to click on it. If it happens to be the first item in your inbox, then it will highlight it for you.)

Before it even displays the text on your screen, the executable has been run.

I will click a link in an article I'm reading. Say I'm reading something here from ES and it has a link to the article... I'll click that. If the article has a link to a source, I'll click on that too. Say that article on CNN.com has a advertiser link (a la banner ad) on the page, I won't ever click those. If it's something that sounds super interesting, I'll google it. If there is a link on a page that I don't normally visit and I'm questioning it, I'll scroll over the link and see what IP address it links me to. If that IP address sounds questionable, I'll forgo clicking on it.

If you visit a web page that has an ad on the page, then you've visited the advertiser's page, too. No clicking needed.

I'm honestly surprised by your opinion of Norton. Most of the people I've talked to and reports I've read say that Norton isn't great protection compared to the rest of the "mainstream" anti-virus software out there. I hear that Kasperspy and Avast are both very good companies as it relates to what they actually catch.

My main reasoning for Norton is that when you buy an anti-virus software, you're not just buying the contents of the box. You're also buying the guys who find new threats and put out "wanted posters" of the new threats.

I really prefer things like Spybot for things like spyware checking, because I prefer the little guys for things like that. But for anti-virus, I want the guy with the biggest lab, so that I can get protected as quickly as possible.

The Love Bug, for example, (the first virus to exploit Outlook/Word scripts), was crashing networks around the world four hours[/u] after it was released.

[Springfield]

Problem is, at least if you're using Outloot or Outlook Express, then the instant you click on the email, you're infected. (You don't even have to click on it. If it happens to be the first item in your inbox, then it will highlight it for you.)

Before it even displays the text on your screen, the executable has been run.

I wasn't aware of that. I do use Outlook (2007 I think) when I'm not using my iPhone. I'd say that 95% of my e-mails go through my iPhone, which I only assume is more secure.

If you visit a web page that has an ad on the page, then you've visited the advertiser's page, too. No clicking needed.

I am pretty sure that even an anti-virus program won't block that. What I assume you are talking about is the tracking cookie. Back when I had Norton, I would run Spybot and it would still come back with tracking cookies that were supposedly "harmless". Zedo was one of my favorites, came up all the time (running Norton, when scanned with Spybot).

My main reasoning for Norton is that when you buy an anti-virus software, you're not just buying the contents of the box. You're also buying the guys who find new threats and put out "wanted posters" of the new threats.

I really prefer things like Spybot for things like spyware checking, because I prefer the little guys for things like that. But for anti-virus, I want the guy with the biggest lab, so that I can get protected as quickly as possible.

The Love Bug, for example, (the first virus to exploit Outlook/Word scripts), was crashing networks around the world four hours[/u] after it was released.

The thing about viruses is that they have infected most of the people who will get it before the anti-virus software has it in it's definition list. Most industry experts admit that the virus creators (hackers) are way ahead of the anti-virus software community. I think you could include the Love Bug example in my opinion.

Perhaps I am relying on the security of other people's machines to protect my own. Perhaps if nobody had anti-virus software, it would spread like wildfire. That's another thought.

I'm mainly playing the Devil's advocate. Up until earlier tonight, I was saying to myself, "Man, I really need to get some anti-virus software for my PC."

[buenosdiaz]

just buy a computer exclusively for porn purposes

lol

[Springfield]

just buy a computer exclusively for porn purposes

lol

So... BD has been through this before, no?