Cheerleader Ambassador Rcvs Bad Reaction From Flu Shot - ALMOST CURED (MET; Merged)

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

I kept reading.

But didn't take it very seriously.

Not exactly an unbiased source of information.

Yeah it's like the president telling me everything's gonna be ok...

[Homercles82]

Have you ever danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight?

It is ok. Ignore the question.

[Section123OnSundays]

thats horrible

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

It is ok. Ignore the question.

Oh baby I like it RAAAWWWW

[pjfootballer]

The hospital I work at just informed us Monday that we HAVE to have a flu shot by next Monday or we have to wear a mask in patient areas. I deal with patients, so I'm going to HAVE to get one. I've never had one before. What sucks is, according to the CDC, our area has had only 25% of all flu cases as traditional strains of flu and the Swine flu has accounted for 75%. Yet, the vaccination is for the traditional and the Swine flu innoculation is not available to us yet.

[Homercles82]

Oh baby I like it RAAAWWWW

You want to say that a vaccination it bad for you but will not answer a question about your lifestyle and how much more detrimental it can be for you than getting a once a year vaccination.

We all get it. Bash "big pharma" now like bashing "big oil" was fashionable last year. Maybe next year we can bash "big agra" or something nonsensical along those lines.

And I assume you never get vaccinations because you want to keep your body "pure" and free from mercury. Well please never eat fish or any kind of seafood that isn't farmed but whoops we got to bash large farming operations.

[MassSkinsFan]

I stopped reading after that...

That's silly. If you consider vaccines evil why not learn about your enemy?

Oh wait - you already stopped reading...

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

You want to say that a vaccination it bad for you but will not answer a question about your lifestyle and how much more detrimental it can be for you than getting a once a year vaccination.

We all get it. Bash "big pharma" now like bashing "big oil" was fashionable last year. Maybe next year we can bash "big agra" or something nonsensical along those lines.

And I assume you never get vaccinations because you want to keep your body "pure" and free from mercury. Well please never eat fish or any kind of seafood that isn't farmed but whoops we got to bash large farming operations.

OK, I'll be serious for a sec...My original post (One sentence) was simply referring to the biased source of the vaccine info in that post. If you want to put words in my mouth to start a back-and-forth, go ahead. Oh yeah, you already did. I still love you.

[pjfootballer]

Ok...

why do you think 1 out of every 150 children born after 1977 has some form of AUTISM????

Bunch of crap. Another made up stat by drug companies to make our youth into zombies with drugs. When I think of Autism, I think of Rain Man, not some kid who just won't pay attention. It's like you have to have some kind of affliction nowadays. Back in my day, kids were giving a kick in the ass and told to do their work. They were the lazy kids put in special ed classes. I knew a couple of them. They weren't dumb, they just didn't want to do the work.

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

That's silly. If you consider vaccines evil why not learn about your enemy?

See above post...

[D-Day]

You want to say that a vaccination it bad for you but will not answer a question about your lifestyle and how much more detrimental it can be for you than getting a once a year vaccination.

We all get it. Bash "big pharma" now like bashing "big oil" was fashionable last year. Maybe next year we can bash "big agra" or something nonsensical along those lines.

And I assume you never get vaccinations because you want to keep your body "pure" and free from mercury. Well please never eat fish or any kind of seafood that isn't farmed but whoops we got to bash large farming operations.

All I have to say is that I had the swine and I was over it in 2 days. Death rate is so far much less then the regular flu. As far as injections being safe, yeah ask all the soldiers who get the shot ****tail before going to a war zone and come home with all sorts of serious medical issues for the rest of their life if they are safe. Shockingly a large portion of these are neurological in nature. (google gulf war illness which has continued massively in the latest war veterans)

Lots of reasons to distrust vaccines as my thrice weekly migraines can speak too.

Oh and Mass.... with as many posts as you have defending vaccines today, I am wondering how hard it really is to get these things passed. I mean you have all this time on your hands.....

[MassSkinsFan]

Yeah it's like the president telling me everything's gonna be ok...

I am rolling my eyes at you.

My job is to make sure things don't go wrong. If they do, my job is then to investigate how and why, and what the impact is. If it's bad, well we need to come clean. FDA, EMEA, TGA, etc. make sure of that.

FDA is a law enforcement agency, and agents have badges and on rare occasions can carry weapons. They have the authority to close the business where I work, and to fine or jail responsible executives and management. That ensures things are done on the up and up. Also, we're human beings and feel not only a responsibility to ensure safety and efficacy of our product, but pride in working in an industry that has done a lot to improve public health.

Before I worked here I worked at this place. We made 2 products: Carticel and Epicel. We routinely had patients come to visit and express their gratitude for our work and the product they received. These visits usually ended in tears since these folks were very grateful and it moved all of us. Vaccines aren't quite the same, but they help more people than those other 2 products.

We're not playing at selling you snake oil.

If you don't want a vaccine, fine. I'm cool with that. But don't turn someone else off from it just because Oprah said they're bad. Sheesh. Do your homework and find out the facts, then decide. Some of the retorts you guys are throwing out are right out of the anti-vax propaganda manual, verbatim. At least be creative will ya?

[MassSkinsFan]

with as many posts as you have defending vaccines today, I am wondering how hard it really is to get these things passed. I mean you have all this time on your hands.....

I was waiting for that!

I'm a mutli-tasker.

[jkypoo]

I am rolling my eyes at you.

My job is to make sure things don't go wrong. If they do, my job is then to investigate how and why, and what the impact is. If it's bad, well we need to come clean. FDA, EMEA, TGA, etc. make sure of that.

FDA is a law enforcement agency, and agents have badges and on rare occasions can carry weapons. They have the authority to close the business where I work, and to fine or jail responsible executives and management. That ensures things are done on the up and up. Also, we're human beings and feel not only a responsibility to ensure safety and efficacy of our product, but pride in working in an industry that has done a lot to improve public health.

Before I worked here I worked at this place. We made 2 products: Carticel and Epicel. We routinely had patients come to visit and express their gratitude for our work and the product they received. These visits usually ended in tears since these folks were very grateful and it moved all of us. Vaccines aren't quite the same, but they help more people than those other 2 products.

We're not playing at selling you snake oil.

If you don't want a vaccine, fine. I'm cool with that. But don't turn someone else off from it just because Oprah said they're bad. Sheesh. Do your homework and find out the facts, then decide. Some of the retorts you guys are throwing out are right out of the anti-vax propaganda manual, verbatim. At least be creative will ya?

In this thread I have not and will not come down on either side of the fence.

But you can't honestly present yourself as an unbiased source.

Propaganda can be truthful, but it is still propaganda.

You are too close and have too much vested interest in the product to be considered reliable.

You sort of come off as a used car salesman at times.

And why should others be dissuaded from turning people off when you so blatantly attempt to turn people on to it? Or at least trivialize otherwise relevant concerns? That tactic seems unfair and unethical.

[RandyHolt]

Getting a season flu shot is merely a guess from the pool of the previous YEARS strains as to which may mutate and be common the next year. As with any guessing, they usually guess wrong. Mutations like H1N1 will NOT be predicted nor will the seasonal flu vaccine prevent it. Mercury in flu shots should be a concern to us all. MMM mercury the thing that a broken thermometer will close a school for two weeks. But its ok for you, trust them.

Who is doing quality control on the billions of doses being produced? Assume no one. Checked out the drug recalls lately?

I didnt think healthy middle aged adults needed seasonal flu shots. Nor do I think that for profit govt contractors should be in charge.

The biggest myth of them all? Oh, 30000 Americans die every year from the flu. That is a lie. They lump any senior that dies in the winter into that. do you know anyone that died from the flu last winter? Or any winter?

[scstand]

Flu vaccines revealed as the greatest quackery ever pushed in the history of medicine:

http://www.naturalnews.com/027239_vaccines_flu_vaccine_.html

(NaturalNews) Prepare to have your world rocked. What you're about to read here will leave you astonished, inspired and outraged all at the same time. You're about to be treated to some little-known information demonstrating why seasonal flu vaccines are utterly worthless and why their continued promotion is based entirely on fabricated studies and medical mythology.

If the whole world knew what you're about to read here, the vaccine industry would collapse overnight.

This information comes to you courtesy of a brilliant article published in The Atlantic (November 2009). The article, written by Shannon Brownlee and Jeanne Lenzer, isn't just brilliant; in my opinion it stands as the best article on flu vaccines that has ever been published in the popular press. Entitled Does the vaccine matter?, it presents some of the most eye-opening information you've probably ever read about the failure of flu vaccines. You can read the full article here: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/2009...

Perhaps its impressive narrative shouldn't be too surprising, though, since writer Shannon Brownlee is also the celebrated author of a phenomenal book on modern medicine entitled Overtreated: Why Too Much Medicine Is Making Us Sicker and Poorer (http://www.amazon.com/Overtreated-M...) (http://www.naturalpedia.com/book_Ov...).

While I've never done this before, I'm going to summarize this article point by point (along with some comments) so that you get the full force of what's finally been put into print.

This information is so important that I encourage you to share the following summary I've put together. Email it to family, friends and coworkers. Or post it on your blog or website (with a link and proper credit to both NaturalNews and The Atlantic, please). Get this information out to the world. People need to know this, and so far the mainstream media has utterly failed to make this information known.

(The really good information begins after around a dozen bullet points, so be sure to keep reading...)

Does the vaccine matter?

What follows is my point-by-point summary of this groundbreaking article by Shannon Brownlee, originally published in The Atlantic. My opinion statements are shown in brackets and italics.

• Vaccination is the core strategy of the U.S. government's plan to combat the swine flu.

• The U.S. government has spent roughly $3 billion stockpiling vaccines and anti-viral drugs.

• The CDC is recommending that 159 million Americans receive a swine flu vaccine injection (as soon as possible).

• What if vaccines don't work? More and more researchers are skeptical about whether they do.

• Seasonal flu (that's the regular flu) currently kills an estimated 36,000 people each year in the United States. [but most people who die are already suffering from existing diseases such as asthma.]

• Most "colds" aren't really caused by the flu virus. As few as 7 or 8 percent (and at most, 50 percent) of colds have an influenza origin. There are more than 200 viruses and pathogens that can cause "influenza-like" illnesses (and therefore be easily mistaken for the flu).

• Viruses mutate with amazing speed, meaning that each year's circulating influenza is genetically different from the previous year.

• The vaccine for each upcoming flu season is formulated by health experts taking a guess [a wild guess, at times] about what strain of influenza might be most likely to circulate in the future.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

There has been extensive research trying to prove this, and none of the data can support it. My guess (though again, no data supports it to my knowledge) is that detection of autism, tourette's, ADD, ADHD, etc. has gotten much better since 1977 as medical surveillance has improved, and that this is a coincidence.

Off topic, but I agree with this assessment of the autism debate. There is such a wide spectrum now. It's very likely that some kids you went to school with 20 years ago would now be labeled autistic.

Having a young son, I've done plenty of research on this and I was unable to find anything convincing that linked vaccinations and autism. I have no doubt that if you read parents' reactions, it would be believable. But those are just people with very little scientific background associating two things that can occur around the same time in a child's life (shots and being diagnosed as autistic).

Edit: I should also say that I feel horrible for the poor girl that is suffering. That's a truly sad thing that happened to her and I wish her the best.

[FinalBeast]

Wow that's a sad thing to see happen to her. I wish the best to her and her family

[Taylor4Life]

In this thread I have not and will not come down on either side of the fence...

This sums up my thoughts.

On the one hand, vaccine companies know that the more people who take vaccines, the higher their bottom line is... so why wouldn't they do everything possible to downplay the side effects and exaggerate the benefits of taking the shot?

On the other hand, I suspect that most anti-vaccine activists have children that are suffering from neurological disorders and understandably lash out at whoever or whatever they think may have caused it. I am aware of the studies that show no definitive link between autism and vaccines.

Me, I'm 30 and have never taken a flu shot, and have never had any repercussions from not taking one. So, as Dan Snyder once said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If I ever enter a stage in my life where the seasonal flu is having a negative effect on my personal or professional life, then I'll consider taking the shot. Until then, sorry Big Pharma.

[MassSkinsFan]

In this thread I have not and will not come down on either side of the fence.

But you can't honestly present yourself as an unbiased source.

Propaganda can be truthful, but it is still propaganda.

You are too close and have too much vested interest in the product to be considered reliable.

You sort of come off as a used car salesman at times.

And why should others be dissuaded from turning people off when you so blatantly attempt to turn people on to it? Or at least trivialize otherwise relevant concerns? That tactic seems unfair and unethical.

I am biased yes.

But I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying you should get vaccinated. I'm just saying people are basing their opinions on hearsay and unsubstantiated data.

I have a unique job too. My role is independent of the "money-making" portion of the company and I have veto power, so I have to be more impartial than someone in say marketing. I can and have rejected product because it was not suitable for sale. There is a high standard of quality and the company has imposed that upon itself. Routine audits by FDA and other regulatory authorities confirm that we meet that standard.

Like I've said in several other posts, if you choose not to have a vaccine, that's fine. If you're not at increased risk, you probably are OK. But, I urge you to ask your doctor and challenge their response if it doesn't make sense. That's your right as a patient.

[jkypoo]

I am biased yes.

But I think you misunderstand. I'm not saying you should get vaccinated. I'm just saying people are basing their opinions on hearsay and unsubstantiated data.

I have a unique job too. My role is independent of the "money-making" portion of the company and I have veto power, so I have to be more impartial than someone in say marketing. I can and have rejected product because it was not suitable for sale. There is a high standard of quality and the company has imposed that upon itself. Routine audits by FDA and other regulatory authorities confirm that we meet that standard.

Like I've said in several other posts, if you choose not to have a vaccine, that's fine. If you're not at increased risk, you probably are OK. But, I urge you to ask your doctor and challenge their response if it doesn't make sense. That's your right as a patient.

One of my many problems is that you immediately established yourself as an authority on the subject, thereby causing some posters to heed your every word. Then, when presented with data that shows a relatively small number of medical professionals have received or will receive vaccine shots, you guess at why the data might read the way it does. The fact being that you really have no clue as to why that particular data came out the way it did. Yet you criticize other posters for baseless conjecture, which is exactly how you responded to data that opposes your position. You can't have it both ways and your posts definitely carry a certain amount of spin. If I had never been exposed to this debate in the past and came into this forum, read about your credentials, and saw your irresponsible responses, I would immediately become weary and suspicious. If you are hoping to represent your company in this thread and its interests in this debate, I would stick merely to facts and not resort to typical forum argumentative styling, especially since you admittedly are not PR or advertising.

[MassSkinsFan]

1) Vaccination is the core strategy of the U.S. government's plan to combat the swine flu.

2) The U.S. government has spent roughly $3 billion stockpiling vaccines and anti-viral drugs.

3) The CDC is recommending that 159 million Americans receive a swine flu vaccine injection (as soon as possible).

4) What if vaccines don't work? More and more researchers are skeptical about whether they do.

5) Seasonal flu (that's the regular flu) currently kills an estimated 36,000 people each year in the United States. [but most people who die are already suffering from existing diseases such as asthma.]

6) Most "colds" aren't really caused by the flu virus. As few as 7 or 8 percent (and at most, 50 percent) of colds have an influenza origin. There are more than 200 viruses and pathogens that can cause "influenza-like" illnesses (and therefore be easily mistaken for the flu).

7) Viruses mutate with amazing speed, meaning that each year's circulating influenza is genetically different from the previous year.

8) The vaccine for each upcoming flu season is formulated by health experts taking a guess [a wild guess, at times] about what strain of influenza might be most likely to circulate in the future.

Natural News!!! Right up there with the Lancet and New England Journal of Medicine as a reliable source of medical info...

1 through 3 are true.

4 is speculation - do they present data showing lack of efficacy?

5 doesn't say much. The idea is to prevent flu since it can have a devastating impact when it finds a host with another problem (such as asthma)

6 is complete nonsense. The flu vaccine prevents flu, not colds. If it were possible right now to create a Rhinovirus vaccine (that's a cold vaccine) it would have been done already. I know of research that was abandoned because it's just too hard to immunize against colds right now.

7 is somewhat true - flu mutates quite a bit, but you can have reasonable coverage from year to year

8 is also somewhat true, but hyperbole; flu usually mutates a little at a time, but when a big mutation happens, then the World Health Organization (who by the way requests the strain combination used in vaccines) is caught off guard

Currently vaccine companies are developing vaccines to immunize against any strain. That would eliminate the concerns raised in 7 and 8.

[MassSkinsFan]

One of my many problems is that you immediately established yourself as an authority on the subject, thereby causing some posters to heed your every word. Then, when presented with data that shows a relatively small number of medical professionals have received or will receive vaccine shots, you guess at why the data might read the way it does. The fact being that you really have no clue as to why that particular data came out the way it did. Yet you criticize other posters for baseless conjecture, which is exactly how you responded to data that opposes your position. You can't have it both ways and your posts definitely carry a certain amount of spin. If I had never been exposed to this debate in the past and came into this forum, read about your credentials, and saw your irresponsible responses, I would immediately become weary and suspicious. If you are hoping to represent your company in this thread and its interests in this debate, I would stick merely to facts and not resort to typical forum argumentative styling, especially since you admittedly are not PR or advertising.

OK - I see your point about the medical pros. But, my response did provide data: not all med pros are doctors or nurses.

Other than saying that and also saying that I could speculate (but won't), how are my posts irresponsible? Have I lied? Am I advocating that everyone gets a shot or else?

I don't get it.

I'm not asking anyone to heed my word. Just consider it and either confirm it or refute it on your own. My big objection is the knee-jerk response people have when it comes to vaccines. Frankly, it's none of my business if you get one or not. I just object to people responding emotionally to something that is really about facts.

[Stugein]

How is this still in the Stadium?

[SirClintonPortis]

Sorry you think they're so evil.

There are regulations in the drug industry that prevent the kind of opportunistic marketing you see in just about every other industry. Do companies sometimes try to take advantage of a prevailing fear to make a profit? Yes. Is it really possible to exploit that the way you woud if you were Dan Snyder? Hell no!!!

I'm not talking about fraud, genius. The concept of inelastic demand must not be familiar to you.

I'm not paranoid, but I don't suck up to the coattails of the government and its friends as if they are agents of benevolence.