Pelosi Warning Against Political "Violence"

[December90]

How many of those "Southern Dems" that encouraged segregation were actually left wing?

You know how many? None.

You know what happened to these racists?

Nixon decided he needed their votes, so he played to their racism by pointing out how Democrats had pushed civil rights. And he turned them into Republicans. And they still are Republicans today.

I had no Idea that Robert "KKK" Byrd was republican.

[twa]

1) Your point is that she'd better watch her mouth, or somebody will kill some people, and it'll be her fault?

2) You really want to try to claim that McVeigh's actions were caused by Waco, etc, and not by the right-wing sources who spent years spinning it into something it wasn't? That's some mighty selective blame you're assigning.

1 Not her mouth so much,but her actions

Go ahead and kick a hornets nest if you feel like some excitement:(

Me?, I'm for keeping a close eye on em ,unless they get to be a real threat.

2 That is exactly what I'm claiming

It was a reaction...don't believe me ?...ask any that researched him.

I'm rather familiar with the wacky ****s and what drives them.

It ain't some stupid talk radio host.

[aREDSKIN]

nothing is ever anyone's fault.

And yet here we stand, on a precipice, and no one is responsible.

~bang

jump!!!!

[SnyderShrugged]

Statistical guesstimation... Looking at the seemingly large #s of people who apparently buy into the rhetoric and assuming that a very small % of those people may do something violent.

That is by far an awful statistical rationale.

If this were the case, then there would have most likely been at least some violence and arrests at the 9/12 tea party. There wasnt.

Also, I still see no definable differentiation between now and just last year.

I'm sorry, but your assumption of violence just doesnt fly when facts are added.

[Larry]

I'm rather familiar with the wacky ****s and what drives them.

I've noticed that about you.

[alexey]

That is by far an awful statistical rationale.

If this were the case, then there would have most likely been at least some violence and arrests at the 9/12 tea party. There wasnt.

Also, I still see no definable differentiation between now and just last year.

I'm sorry, but your assumption of violence just doesnt fly when facts are added.

It's only been 9 months into the current administration and only one major initiative was passed. I suspect that feeling of helplessness and "losing of the country" will grow as other major initiatives are passed, as well as after the 2010 election if Dems retain majorities.

[Vicious]

According to eye witnesses a man of Arab descent fled the truck moments before the blast. When they tried to tell the Clinton controlled media they were shunned and their story was never told-can you say cover up? Keep up the spoon fed rhetoric though.:doh:

More like you need to stop getting spoon fed rhetoric. You're crazed and you need help.

[SnyderShrugged]

It's only been 9 months into the current administration and only one major initiative was passed. I suspect that feeling of helplessness and "losing of the country" will grow as other major initiatives are passed, as well as after the 2010 election if Dems retain majorities.

I'm sure it will too. Still no reasonable expectation of violence because of it. No more than expecting violence during the Bush years when many felt just as helpless and of "losing their country".

[alexey]

I'm sure it will too. Still no reasonable expectation of violence because of it. No more than expecting violence during the Bush years when many felt just as helpless and of "losing their country".

I would not say that I have a reasonable expectation of violence, and I will take back the statement of violence being "likely" because I want to be wrong and I don't want to pull a Cheney.

However, I will stand by the main point that I was making in this thread. Mainstream right is adapting (or at least not rejecting) an extremist rhetoric that strokes fringe elements and poses a real danger of leading to violence. While some parallels may indeed be drawn, in all important categories this is not even remotely close to what was talking place during Bush years on the left.

[Predicto]

I'm sure it will too. Still no reasonable expectation of violence because of it. No more than expecting violence during the Bush years when many felt just as helpless and of "losing their country".

Since Mr Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 per cent from the 3,000 a year or so under President George W. Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, author of In the President's Secret Service.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html

:whoknows:

[SnyderShrugged]

I would not say that I have a reasonable expectation of violence, and I will take back the statement of violence being "likely" because I want to be wrong and I don't want to pull a Cheney.

However, I will stand by the main point that I was making in this thread. Mainstream right is adapting (or at least not rejecting) an extremist rhetoric that strokes fringe elements and poses a real danger of leading to violence. While some parallels may indeed be drawn, in all important categories this is not even remotely close to what was talking place during Bush years on the left.

I'm enjoying our discussion and dont mean to offend at all, but didnt you just take us back to our original discussion point on what is "extremist" that needs to be moderated?

We really never defined the specific extremism beyond the political disagreement point.

I guess I keep asking because I'm not seeing elevated extremism anywhere. There is always some degree of extremism in any population, especially in a politically charged one. I really dont see more extremism from the right, left or middle at this juncture.

[SnyderShrugged]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html

:whoknows:

While inclined to believe Mr. kessler, I also notice that real violence not threats) has not reared its head thus far.

Believe me, if I saw actual elevated violence, I'd call it out and bash it readily. Just havent seen anything different in this administration as others.

[alexey]

I'm enjoying our discussion and dont mean to offend at all, but didnt you just take us back to our original discussion point on what is "extremist" that needs to be moderated?

We really never defined the specific extremism beyond the political disagreement point.

I guess I keep asking because I'm not seeing elevated extremism anywhere. There is always some degree of extremism in any population, especially in a politically charged one. I really dont see more extremism from the right, left or middle at this juncture.

I think it's easy to notice a very strong emotional component to political disagreements coming from the right. In my opinion this emotional component makes the difference between moderation and extremism. I am not talking about just presence of emotions here. Strong feelings alone do not lead to extremism. The troublesome aspect here is the "us vs them" rhetoric. Throughout history Us vs Them served as the root and the driving force of all extremism. Us vs Them is the one thing that justifies all. This is it. This is the final fight for survival. Annihilate them or they will annihilate you.

[SnyderShrugged]

I think it's easy to notice a very strong emotional component to political disagreements coming from the right. In my opinion this emotional component makes the difference between moderation and extremism. I am not talking about just presence of emotions here. Strong feelings alone do not lead to extremism. The troublesome aspect here is the "us vs them" rhetoric. Throughout history Us vs Them served as the root and the driving force of all extremism. Us vs Them is the one thing that justifies all. This is it. This is the final fight for survival. Annihilate them or they will annihilate you.

wasnt there an extremely strong environment of us vs them during the last 2 presidents' terms (all 4)? I dont see where we are hearing folks say things like annihilate them, at least not from folks that would have said that regardless of who is in office.

[Larry]

While inclined to believe Mr. kessler, I also notice that real violence not threats) has not reared its head thus far.

I'm certain that the guy who was hiding, armed, in a room where Obama was going to be speaking, was doing so because he wanted Obama to autograph it.

But he got caught. Therefore there was no violence.

[Larry]

I think it's easy to notice a very strong emotional component to political disagreements coming from the right. In my opinion this emotional component makes the difference between moderation and extremism. I am not talking about just presence of emotions here. Strong feelings alone do not lead to extremism. The troublesome aspect here is the "us vs them" rhetoric. Throughout history Us vs Them served as the root and the driving force of all extremism. Us vs Them is the one thing that justifies all. This is it. This is the final fight for survival. Annihilate them or they will annihilate you.

So your point is that "they" think in terms of "us vs. them", but "we" don't?

:halo:

[SnyderShrugged]

I'm certain that the guy who was hiding, armed, in a room where Obama was going to be speaking, was doing so because he wanted Obama to autograph it.

But he got caught. Therefore there was no violence.

There was a guy caught doing that?

[alexey]

wasnt there an extremely strong environment of us vs them during the last 2 presidents' terms (all 4)? I dont see where we are hearing folks say things like annihilate them, at least not from folks that would have said that regardless of who is in office.

I don't think so. Maybe it's just me, but last time I remember witnessing such strong us vs them rhetoric was during my childhood back in the former USSR

I was being graphic with the "annihilate" thing to show that this kind of stuff get the blood pumping (and spilled).

[twa]

There was a guy caught doing that?

NO..there was a guy in a building hrs before a O event with a knife:silly:....and a gun in his car.

[The 12th Commandment]

I honestly felt an us vs. them thing during most of the Bush admin. But I don't ever recall the left getting as worked up as the right is now. I read the comments in my small cities topix forum and it's appalling, outright hatred. There was never anything like what I see now. We're not a hick town (well not totally :geek:), there's a university and lots & lots of newcomers from big cities so it's not the neck factor.

[SnyderShrugged]

I don't think so. Maybe it's just me, but growing up in former USSR was the last time I remember witnessing such strong us vs them rhetoric

I was being graphic with the "annihilate" thing to show that this kind of stuff get the blood pumping (and spilled).

You grew up in the former USSR? Thats pretty cool (for me at least, maybe not for you! LOl)

I'd love to pick your brain on any number of things sometime. I absolutely LOVe getting a different cultural perspective on things. I often feel rather limited in my views due to only oin overseas once for a summer and to Canada and Mexico periodically. I dont think I have a large enough world view at times.

Thanks for that cool tidbit about yourself!

[Larry]

There was a guy caught doing that?

Actually, it looks like I may have some parts wrong. (First time for everything.)

The guy was arrested for supposedly sneaking through the security perimeter (I thought the idea was to prevent people from doing that), with a pocket knife. Upon his arrest, it was found that he had a gun concealed in his car. (Which supposedly would have been legal, if it were unloaded, and if it weren't concealed.)

(OT, but I really don't understand the concept of criminalizing people failing to leave their gun exposed to plain view in their car. Me, I'd much rather everybody who's transporting a gun keep it in the trunk, where it's harder for the occupants to reach it, and where people can't see it through the window and decide to steal it.)

[SnyderShrugged]

I honestly felt an us vs. them thing during most of the Bush admin. But I don't ever recall the left getting as worked up as the right is now. I read the comments in my small cities topix forum and it's appalling, outright hatred. There was never anything like what I see now. We're not a hick town (well not totally :geek:), there's a university and lots & lots of newcomers from big cities so it's not the neck factor.

LOL, we might have been seeing two totally different america's during those years then! I remember just as much vitriol, hatred and protest as now, (honestly maybe even more).

I think that the 9/12 event really should have eased the lefts fears of violence though. That many people in one place with very, very, very strong opinions and anger, yet zero arrests, zero violence and as far as I know, zero crime.

[Predicto]

I guess I keep asking because I'm not seeing elevated extremism anywhere. There is always some degree of extremism in any population, especially in a politically charged one. I really dont see more extremism from the right, left or middle at this juncture.

I just can't see it that way. Maybe I just lurk out on extremist websites too much. The stuff I read on FreeRepublic and resistnet these days is really, truly scary. No joke.

[SnyderShrugged]

Actually, it looks like I may have some parts wrong. (First time for everything.)

The guy was arrested for supposedly sneaking through the security perimeter (I thought the idea was to prevent people from doing that), with a pocket knife. Upon his arrest, it was found that he had a gun concealed in his car. (Which supposedly would have been legal, if it were unloaded, and if it weren't concealed.)

(OT, but I really don't understand the concept of criminalizing people failing to leave their gun exposed to plain view in their car. Me, I'd much rather everybody who's transporting a gun keep it in the trunk, where it's harder for the occupants to reach it, and where people can't see it through the window and decide to steal it.)

LOL, I had the NYS police confiscate a gun that was in my trunk, unloaded and locked in it's case. They thought I was transporting it illegally or some nonsense like that. I won out in the end (and after paying through my arse for a lawyer).