ES: playcalling still a work in progress

[TheLongshot]

Hate to do to this to you, but you're wrong. From the Washington Post:

"The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day. "It was the right field position; it was on the script. They covered Santana, which most of the day they tried to take him out of the game. They did a good job with two guys on him. They had him covered. They had Chris Cooley covered on the play.

I never said that the play wasn't on the script. The play being on the script doesn't mean he was going to run it as the second play. Again, because we had the field position and it was 1st down, he decided to move it up the script and run it.

Scripted plays are not a hard script. They are often adjusted based on the success or failure of previous plays. I mean, if it is 3rd and long, you aren't going to call a run simply because it is on the script. You are going to call something that gives you the chance to pick up the first down.

Wow, I'm turning into a horrible Zorn basher today. Moss wasn't double covered. He had one guy on him and Moss stopped running when he saw he was covered. He quit on the play. If that is all Zorn can take out of that play, this is going to be a long season. And where is the accountability? Gee, maybe shouldn't have called that there, the defense was still playing us honestly because we hadn't made them react to anything yet. The play was sound? Really!!???

The accountability is that ARE should have thrown the ball away when he saw that his receivers were covered and he had a defender heading toward him.

[lefty420]

I never said that the play wasn't on the script. The play being on the script doesn't mean he was going to run it as the second play. Again, because we had the field position and it was 1st down, he decided to move it up the script and run it.

Scripted plays are not a hard script. They are often adjusted based on the success or failure of previous plays. I mean, if it is 3rd and long, you aren't going to call a run simply because it is on the script. You are going to call something that gives you the chance to pick up the first down.

The accountability is that ARE should have thrown the ball away when he saw that his receivers were covered and he had a defender heading toward him.

Still does not relieve Zorn from a bad call in the first game of the season. When it would have helped to let your QB throw the first pass of the game. That is why we have QB's. To throw passes!!!

And still ignores the point of the article, That Zorn is happy to call run left, run left long pass and hope not to lose. Even when the run is getting 1 yard a carry.

We were predictable and conservative. We had 2 receivers with 7 catches and almost 100 yards each. yet we kept putting our offense in 2nd and long, than 3rd and long.

Zorn needs to understand this and make adjustments. The facts bear this out. The fact we lost is evidence something else should have been done in the second half when we had chances.

Down 7 after the pick returned to the 11 by Hall, On first down we ran to the left. And only passed on 3rd and long. We got 3 instead of 7. We rolled over.

[SilkyDiamonds]

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

[pocampo]

So Murf why won't JZ make those adjustments. Whats really going on ?

[TheLongshot]

Still does not relieve Zorn from a bad call in the first game of the season. When it would have helped to let your QB throw the first pass of the game. That is why we have QB's. To throw passes!!!

The only reason why people are calling it a bad call was because it was an option pass. Had the receivers been just as covered with a playaction and Campbell was sacked for 11 yards, would we be saying that it was a bad call by Zorn? No, we would have said that Campbell needed to get rid of the ball.

And still ignores the point of the article, That Zorn is happy to call run left, run left long pass and hope not to lose. Even when the run is getting 1 yard a carry.

Talking about the option play has nothing to do with the point of the article. I agree with that.

[lefty420]

The only reason why people are calling it a bad call was because it was an option pass. Had the receivers been just as covered with a playaction and Campbell was sacked for 11 yards, would we be saying that it was a bad call by Zorn? No, we would have said that Campbell needed to get rid of the ball.

Talking about the option play has nothing to do with the point of the article. I agree with that.

And you would be wrong. I would like us to come out and get a rhythm going. It was the second play of the game and of the year. So our first pass would be from a WR not out QB.

We used that same play to great success in the eagles game last year. It was the only td from Cooley last year. It was called in the second half after we had already had 2 reverses 1 for 12 yards. I loved the call. This was when Zorn was calling some killer plays in that 6-2 stretch.

Not the second play of the season. Not before the Qb even gets a chance to start a rhythm.

That is my only point. Not the second play of the year.

[MassSkinsFan]

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

So I'm crazy for reading all these ES posts then, right?

Great article. I agree with TheLongshot about the troubling stretch of run left for 1 yard plays (third quarter I think). I think Zorn needs to get help with the playcalling, especially adjustments. Is there anyone within the organization who could come to his aid?

[clarkskin]

Hate to do to this to you, but you're wrong. From the Washington Post:

"The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day. "It was the right field position; it was on the script. They covered Santana, which most of the day they tried to take him out of the game. They did a good job with two guys on him. They had him covered. They had Chris Cooley covered on the play.

I had seen that too but didn't really get the impression that Zorn literally had planned on running it on play #2 because he also said that being in Giants territory made it an ideal call. Who knows.

One thing I really liked about Zorn last year (at least for the first half) is that he seemed to call a more aggressive game. There were a couple close finishes where he made gusty aggressive calls--like whichever game it was when he called a quick slant to Moss on 4th down to ice it.

I thought that attitude was a welcome departure from Gibbs' conservatism at the end of games during his second tenure. Hopefully the creativity and aggressiveness will make an appearance this week.

[lefty420]

I had seen that too but didn't really get the impression that Zorn literally had planned on running it on play #2 because he also said that being in Giants territory made it an ideal call. Who knows.

One thing I really liked about Zorn last year (at least for the first half) is that he seemed to call a more aggressive game. There were a couple close finishes where he made gusty aggressive calls--like whichever game it was when he called a quick slant to Moss on 4th down to ice it.

I thought that attitude was a welcome departure from Gibbs' conservatism at the end of games during his second tenure. Hopefully the creativity and aggressiveness will make an appearance this week.

Yes!!!!

Zorn is a new HC. He gets worked up real easy. And is learning to be a HC.

Well he took the Pit loss bad. And has not been the same play caller since. That is the point I felt Zorn hit the ceiling and started to regress. Everything changed after the Pit loss.

IMO Zorn has shown he can call a dynamic game. We have the first 8 games as that record. But Zorn got beat down bad at home. Campbell had his first 2 ints and a very poor game.

Zorn has not trusted Campbell and himself since.

[gaskinsfan]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Which is why I wish the 'Skins would have noticed that running to the left on seemingly every first down was not working. They could have made that in-game adjustment to switch things up and tried something different - whether it be a quick slant or a screen pass or whatever - in hopes of gaining a few extra yards on first/give yourself less of an uphill battle on second and third downs.

I think Zorn gets stuck trying to coach, etc. during the game to realize how redundant his play calling is. I wish he would give this duty up to Sherman Smith and let him try.

[boofMcboof]

How much of not being able to run to the right is hampering Zorn's playcalling?

[panel]

The problem is that we ran the ball at obvious times, and that we only ran to the left, because we can't run Block without Jansen. If you remember back to last year, we had the same problem at the beginning of the year, we could only run left. Then Jansen was a starter again, and Portis Blew up, because teams had to defend both sides on the run

The problem isn't that we should have passed more, or that we ran the ball too much, just that we ran the ball wrong. Even though our runs failed to get yards, they did set up the pass well.

[Skinsfan4life83]

I agree, probably too many runs on first down, but maybe we were able to pass successfully on other occasions because the Giants were expecting us to run.

Take away the 17 yard touchdown to Cooley and we had 194 passing yards, no offensive touchdowns, 1INT, 2 fumbles on passing downs, and we lose by 13. Suddenly it doesn't look like our passing game was so effective.

So lets not play the "take away this play and..." game, because it can go either way. We did not run or pass well against the Giants, our offense just got beat. In my opinion our loss had more to do with lack of execution than lack of good play calling.

Dear God:doh: You could find fault with anything i believe, the playcalling was HORRENDOUS is what it boils down to. PERIOD:D

[GaryGreenMonk]

I hate seeing that, but you have to run the ball. It's going to be tough getting anything going in the passing game when the defense knows you've abandoned the run.

you have to go with what works.

and that's likely to be different against each defense you play.

fact is.. against the Giants.. running was not working... and we were down 2 scores... but we kept doing it anyways.

dumb.

[darrelgreenie]

Yes!!!!

Zorn is a new HC. He gets worked up real easy. And is learning to be a HC.

Well he took the Pit loss bad. And has not been the same play caller since. That is the point I felt Zorn hit the ceiling and started to regress. Everything changed after the Pit loss.

IMO Zorn has shown he can call a dynamic game. We have the first 8 games as that record. But Zorn got beat down bad at home. Campbell had his first 2 ints and a very poor game.

Zorn has not trusted Campbell and himself since.

+1 His playcalling has been timid and predicatble and boring.

[Botched]

Dear God:doh: You could find fault with anything i believe, the playcalling was HORRENDOUS is what it boils down to. PERIOD:D

Huh? I'm not the one finding fault in the play calling here. You and 100 others called the playcalling horrendous, not me.

you have to go with what works.

and that's likely to be different against each defense you play.

fact is.. against the Giants.. running was not working... and we were down 2 scores... but we kept doing it anyways.

dumb.

So we should have abandoned the run then? Don't you think that would make us totally predictable? If we go 1/7 on our first 7 pass attempts I don't think we should give it up and run the whole game.

I'll say one more thing on this topic before I leave for home.

We lost a fumble for a TD, threw an interception on an illegal pass, missed an open receiver on a deep ball, let a defender race in unblocked and crush our RB for -6, audibled into a run on 3rd and 8, and took a sack on an option play. These were just a few big plays on offense that were horribly executed and cost us lots of yards, points, and potentially the game. Notice that these were player miscues, not necessarily play calling miscues. Well, except maybe the audible, but I don't think Zorn called that one.

I am not saying Jim Zorn called a perfect game, or even a great game, but I don't think it was as bad as so many people are implying. Hell, it was a gutsy play call that got us our only points of the first half. But then, that was a run, so it was probably a terrible call anyway. I can only imagine the outcry about what a horrible play call that was if Hunter Smith had fumbled the ball.

[pilsburypgh]

Its a little mixture of everything. Nobody is afraid of JC so trust me most defenses will be focusing on the run. Now the sad part is, Zorn plays right into the defenses hands by running on 1st downs for short gains setting up an obvious 3rd and long. This whole offense needs an overhaul.

[mistertim]

Its a little mixture of everything. Nobody is afraid of JC so trust me most defenses will be focusing on the run. Now the sad part is, Zorn plays right into the defenses hands by running on 1st downs for short gains setting up an obvious 3rd and long. This whole offense needs an overhaul.

I don't think the whole offense needs an overhaul. I just think Zorn needs to learn to adjust and not be so hard headed about what approach he is determined to take. If something isn't working, try something different. Obviously passing on 1st down was working and running wasn't. So what do we do in the second half? Run on 1st over and over. :doh:

And if it is true that nobody is scared of Campbell, good. Apparently they miscalculated based on his passing numbers, especially on 1st down. So let's say that we kept doing that since they were stacking the box. Eventually that passing on early downs is going to force them to adapt and spread out more so they won't get picked apart. Then you can use Portis while they are spread out and won't have to worry about him running into a huge wall of defenders for 2 yards every carry.

[SpecialKitty]

As simple as this sounds, I think Zorn needs to adjust is play calling and game plan based on the opponent at hand. This is not limited to only pre-week changes, but also during the game at hand. I recall Portis and Moss mentioning in several post-game interviews last season that defenses began to adjust to the Skins predictable run, run, pass play calling that garnered so much success during the 1st half of the season. The Skins redudent approach combined with an aging/tired offensive line led to small gains in the running game and difficult 3 and long's to convert. IMO this is why we barely won against inferior teams(Detroit), lost games we'd shouldn't have(San Fran,Cinci, ST. Louis), and were dominated against stronger or equal teams. (Pittsburgh, Giants, Ravens, Dallas)

My point is that while this approach (playcalling) is successful in certain situations it cannot be generalized into a winning formula for the entire season against every team. The coaching staff should have taken lessons learned from last season and the 1st half against the Giants and realized that their exceptional d-line can pressure the qb and hold their own in the running game with just 4 lineman. So when their are 7-8 men in the box, running shouldn't even be an option. Its ludicris. Please Screen, Slant, Play action! Something besides Run left for a tedious 1 yard gain.

With that being said the gameplan we imployed Sunday can be applicible to Rams. I think its very realisitic that we gain at least 4-5 yards per run against the Rams average defense.( Julius Jones 117, 19car) Seattle (157 yards combined). If running is successful then that leads short or fewer 3rd down conversions and a myriad of positive effects that relates to winning the clock possession battle. But If for some reason Chris Long, Laurinitis, and Little play the run defensive game of their lives, please, i beg you, switch it up.

[McD5]

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

We have been doing that crap for years. And it wasn't just Zorn, it was Gibbs too.

It is a major reason why we always have one of the worst offenses in the league. Gibbs 2 was painful, and Zorn is following suit.

And our run blocking looks awful. We need to get away from it, and start running a WCO.

[CooleyKnight]

... (the Giants had 36 minutes time of possession to the Redskins' 24) and we're not asking the defense to carry so much of the load.

A major contribution to the disparity in TOP was the fact that our defense couldn't get off the field. We didn't force any 3 and outs and the Giants only punted once I think. Our defense must be better to give the offense back the ball faster as well. Frankly I was more disappointed in the Defense, because the expectations have been so high and and looked no better than last year, than I was with the offense. Well, passing offense at least, the run blocking looked pathetic.

[Thinking Skins]

Murf, I just wanted to add to some of the work you did"

On our 1st drive, we had 4 plays for 33 yards. (8.25 ypp)

- 2 runs, 2 passes

On our 2nd drive, we had 3 plays for 3 yards. (1 ypp)

- 3 runs

On our 3rd drive, we had 3 plays for 32 yards. (10.67 ypp)(the 4th play was an interception)

- 1 run, 2 passes

On our 4th drive, we had 3 plays for 11 yards. (3.67 ypp)(the 4th play was a fumble)

- 1 run, 2 passes

On our 5th drive, we had 7 plays for 77 yards. (11 ypp)

- 2 runs, 5 passes

On our 6th drive, we had 10 plays for 37 yards. (3.7 ypp)

- 4 runs, 5 passes

On our 7th drive, we had 6 plays for 11 yards (1.83 ypp)

- 5 runs, 1 pass

On our 8th drive, we had 3 plays for 2 yards. (0.67 ypp)

- 1 run, 2 passes

On our 9th drive, we had 3 plays for 5 yards. (1.67 ypp)

- 1 run, 2 passes

On our 10th drive, we had 7 plays for 72 yards. (10.29 ypp)

- 0 runs, 7 passes

This just goes to further show how ineffective our running game was, when compared to our passing game. Notice that we were moving the ball best when the run pass ratio was skewed toward passing. And this is even with Zorn's refusal to throw it deep or to throw it to anybody other than ARE/Cooley/Moss. There were drives that stalled when we were passing more, but for the most part even those drives were doing well, if not for the turnovers.

[RandyHolt]

It just seems like we lack a game plan. We just pull plays out of a hat. Like the WR screen to Moss on their 5. That is a short field all the D packed in; a tough play for a guy with no break tackle. Then on our own 5, vs. a depleted secondary, we run run run, even though they had 95 yds of field to cover. Sure we were worried about their fabled pass rush, but we can just loft a fade. Limiting ourselves and our game plan, we never go hurry up. Rarely shotgun. Acquire all this size at WR but then in goal to go we have Moss AND ARE on the field.

I think a solid plan would have been built around attacking the depleted secondary. Our offensive line healthy and strong, ready to pass protect. If not, throw more of the quick stuff. Fades, use shotgun or hurry up.

What was Zorn's game plan?

[Peregrine]

Good writeup. Its also interesting to note that most of those 1st down passes came near the end of the halves, so there were far more runs than passes on first down until it was absolutely necessary to pass.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Great write up. This is what ive been saying all offseason/preseason. The season comes down to coaching...point blank. Zorn needs to be more aggressive and open things up. Let Campbell do his thing and sling the ball around. If Zorn opens up the offense and Campbell cant handle it and fails then atleast we would know for sure that Campbell isnt the answer. But if you dont give him that chance then how can you blame him for our offense?

Our coaches have too much ego and make the game harder than it needs to be. Zorn refuses to admit when he messes up or calls a bad play. He refuses to adapt his system to his players...which is what coaching is all about. Same thing with Blache. He is hell bent on making Orakpo a LB. He is hell bent on running his system instead of letting the talent do what they do best.

It frustrates the hell out of me to watch us struggle to score a TD or to watch us lose to teams that have less talent just because our coaches want to be stubborn and prove that they are a "genius" or that they have a great "system". Its time for the coaches to put the ego aside and go out here and put the players in the best position to win the damn game. This isnt rocket science its football. Hit the other team in the mouth and go out there with the intent to kick some azz. If this staff cant do that then Snyder needs to get rid of them ASAP. The dumb azz play calling and personel decisions will not be tolerated anymore. We as fans need to let Snyder know that this wont be tolerated anymore...Then maybe we will get some results.