Jim Zorn = Stop Gap till the Next Big Splash Hire

[SKINSFAN87]

I would like to see cowher, shanahan,holmgren and gruden. That's the pecking order if I would have to rank these coaches. People are really against shanahan, but I would rank him almost tied with cowher. We need a offensive minded coach that has one in the past and shanny fits the bill. Shanny has consistently played in a tougher division than cowher over the course of the last 15 years, so he knows how to win. GO SHANNY!!

[theboomking]

I would like to see cowher, shanahan,holmgren and gruden. That's the pecking order if I would have to rank these coaches. People are really against shanahan, but I would rank him almost tied with cowher. We need a offensive minded coach that has one in the past and shanny fits the bill. Shanny has consistently played in a tougher division than cowher over the course of the last 15 years, so he knows how to win. GO SHANNY!!

I put Shannahan over Cowher, who coached forever and has 1 ring. Cowher runs a 3-4 D, and run-heavy O. Shanny would be a much better fit, as there would be less of a transition to his WCO, and we wouldn't need to switch the D around.

[pvkeeper19]

This is not a new theory. Nice of you to recycle it after one loss, though.

[jflow78]

I put Shannahan over Cowher, who coached forever and has 1 ring. Cowher runs a 3-4 D, and run-heavy O. Shanny would be a much better fit, as there would be less of a transition to his WCO, and we wouldn't need to switch the D around.

I agree. Cowher has a great overall record, but I hope we don't shift another side of our team to a completely foreign scheme (3-4). Not just that, but we'd need new personell. I'd rather us hire, if we have to, a WCO guy and keep a 4-3 defensive coordinator. There's bound to be plenty of coaches that would beg to play for guys like Holmgren, heck, even QB coaches under him get Head Coaching jobs. Look at Mariucci and Zorn.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

For the sake of argument, why CAN'T we run a 3-4?

I dunno if Rak can play 3-4 OLB, but it worked with Ware and Merriman to a lesser extent (UMD is a 3-4/4-3 hybrid) and Carter wasn't great as a 3-4 OLB, but the team sucking could have had a bit to do with it.

On the line, we run Haynesworth at NT, and rotate our DTs at the other end spots, seeing we have a lot of big runstuffing linemen.

But my choice would be Cowher, or Shanahan or Holmgren if we get a GM.

[wildbill1952]

Sorry, I was in a coma for the last 9 years. I woke up in time to see the season start. Which phase of Redskins disaster mode are we in?

1. Get rid of the QB mode

2. Get rid of the HC mode

3. Get some new tall WR mode

4. Get new stud DL mode

In the 80's we tried, "5. get new OL mode" and that seemed to produce 3 SB wins, but it's no longer in vogue, obviously. Reading this I seem to thnk we're in 2 with a smattering of 1. Or 1 with a smattering of 2.

Vanna, spin the wheel for me. It deja vu, all over again.

[NewCliche21]

I agree, but Holmgren did get back to the SB with Hasselbeck. He also coached Favre, Brunell (when he was good), Hasselbeck, Steve Young, Joe Montana, and for a short period Kurt Warner. I have a feeling that bad QBing wouldn't be tolerated, and the solution would be found quickly (whether it's getting a new one or not).

I'd probably have to go with Holmgren over Shanahan, but we'll see. Shanahan did put together an amazing gameplan for their first SB against the Packers. I like his zone blocking schemes, he's always got a strong OLine, and he coached Cutler pretty well, Marshall too. And for a long time RB could have been filled by the Hambrugarler and he would have gotten 1,000 yards.

Our defense is talented enough that we shouldn't have to play prevent for an entire game (a Blache problem), and I think Shanahan could put our offense together nicely.

You know what? After you put it that way, I guess that I wouldn't mind it so much. I'd much rather Zorn just effing win, but if he can't do it, then either of those two couldn't hurt. However, I'd just love to develop our own coach instead of having retreads. Shanny will always be a Bronco and Holmgren will always be a Packer, you know?

whoever's able to remember the Super Bowl losers as well as the winners?

No one?

I just looked back over the list and I'll admit I was wrong.

I was talking about guys like Lloyd and Archeleta but also about picks like Taylor Jacobs, Raseed Bauman, Andre Lott and Cliff Russell.

But looking back again they drafted a startling number of FBs for a team that only ever carries one and with the exceptions of McIntosh and Blades where they've really struck out is LB

Eh, even Beathard made some bad picks. You're right about the fullbacks, though. I'm not sure what the average success rate is on backers?

[monkeezgob]

Wouldn't OC be a logical promotion from QB coach. Or do you object to Redskins taking chances and only want guys who've been successful with other teams?

Sure, from QB coach to OC is logical, but from QB coach to OC to HC with zero actual experience as an OC isn't.

[monkeezgob]

The other three head coaches hired in 2008 also were not former coordinators, so yes, I can think of other teams that appoint HCs without OC experience. And you forget that Jim Fassel (former HQ) and Gregg Williams (former HQ) were the only other serious candidates for the Redskins at that time, and were rejected in favor of Zorn after multiple interviews. (In fact, Williams was interviewed for three full days.) In fact Fassel is still talking about how irritated he was that he didn't get the job. I don't think that was baffling or desperate, but in any event the decision certainly wasn't made on a whim.

It is interesting looking back on this board in Oct/Nov 2008 and seeing what was said about Zorn. Everyone thought that he walked on water. No one was complaining about his experience or the method of his appointment then.

Hmmm, I think a few people did raise concerns about the swift and apparently miraculous nature of his speedy promotion from QB coach to OC to HC. It was clear from the outset that the appointment was a big gamble.

[SkinsFTW]

Sure, from QB coach to OC is logical, but from QB coach to OC to HC with zero actual experience as an OC isn't.

What do you mean?

Zorn was our OC for a week or so before they made him the HC.

:D:D

[SkinsFTW]

It was clear from the outset that the appointment was a big gamble.

Especially since he essentially holds 2 positions. He's the head coach, and he calls the plays too. I don't think that Sherman Smith is calling the plays, is he?

I'd say that is especially risky. When a head coach promotes his QB coach to OC and has him call plays there is much less risk. He can just take the play calling over himself if he isn't any good. Which Zorn has not been. But Zorn isn't about to fire himself is he?

So Zorn took 2 jobs that he has never proven qualified for with no one to take either away except for the Owner. That is, unless Smith is the play caller but it doesn't sound that way after the games when Zorn talks about himself making the calls.

[illone]

I wouldn't mind Holmgren but I really want Shanny.

[MrJL]

Sure, from QB coach to OC is logical, but from QB coach to OC to HC with zero actual experience as an OC isn't.

but the post I responded to made it sound like hiring Zorn as OC, as we did originally, was a mistake because all he'd been before was a QB coach

[MrJL]

You know what? After you put it that way, I guess that I wouldn't mind it so much. I'd much rather Zorn just effing win, but if he can't do it, then either of those two couldn't hurt. However, I'd just love to develop our own coach instead of having retreads. Shanny will always be a Bronco and Holmgren will always be a Packer, you know?

No one?

Eh, even Beathard made some bad picks. You're right about the fullbacks, though. I'm not sure what the average success rate is on backers?

I can remember a fair number of the Super Bowl losers.

Since 2005 we've drafted the following LBs: Robert McCune, Jared Newberry, Rocky McIntosh, Kevin Simon, Dallas Sartz, HB Blades, Robert Henson and Cody Glenn. That's three out of 8 with one a rookie who's had no chance to make an impact and that's only four drafts cause they didn't take one in 2008.

[pray4surf]

I hope it's either Jaws or Chucky. I feel as though we have the talent, especially on Def, but play no where close to our potential.

As much as it pains me to admit this, we are a poorly coached team from top to bottom.

[Skinsfan4life83]

I agree that Zorn is a stopgap until further notice. If so i would still like to see him kept on as a OC or QB coach, the latter being a stretch.

[HailGreen28]

I don't think any of us have said that Gibbs didn't pull the Skins out of the ocean, something akin to salvaging the titanic, but since he's left, our personell decisions haven't been bad. What exactly is the huge falacy Vinny has committed in the past two seasons? I admit Jason Taylor was a bad decision, mostly because of the pick we gave up, but we've recovered from it pretty well I think.

Yes, Gibbs was a huge upgrade coming back, what *********tard wouldn't agree that Gibbs was an improvement over Spurrier? I'd love to see a post from one person in the entire Redskins' nation who would argue that we should have kept Spurrier over Gibbs, ONE. Again, no one is arguing that.

However, there doesn't appear to be a "trainwreck" on the personell side of this team. Like I said, last week appeared to be more of a coaching train wreck. We weren't overmatched, we just failed to expose the Giants weaknesses and instead ran straight up the middle and threw passes short of the first down line 9/10 times. Hopefully Zorn will recover and reconfigure.

I don't really want a new coach, it usually means we're going to have to wait another year for something good to happen, but if there's no improvement then what do you do? Continue to blame Vinny even though he's not coaching or calling the plays? I think Zorn could be a really good coach, and he proved it the first half of last season, I just think he needs to be more willing to take risks to get bigger rewards, ie throwing in the red zone, getting Blache to play tighter defense (anyone notice the only all out blitz we had last week resulted in a TO?).

Hold on, you're trying to switch to another topic, coaching. Let's keep talking about the personnel side you were talking about before.

Gibbs II came in and cleaned house from the Spurrier years, glad we agree it was part of a huge upgrade. Gibbs wasn't going to be there long no matter what, so he fixed the team quick by bringing in a lot of free agents, so our team got/stayed old. We didn't use the draft much, though we had good picks when we did, (Cooley, Taylor, etc.) The real difference between Gibbs being Team President, and Danny/Vinny calling the shots, personnel-wise was talent evaluation. I'm sure Gibbs was reading the same player evals that Vinnie was, but we made good decisions a lot more with Gibbs, than we have before and since.

Now look what we have after Gibbs II. We got two years to go on now.

Make the biggest splash of the offseason? Check - With Jason Taylor last season, and Albert Haynesworth this season.

Don't bring in many low-cost quality free agents? Check - We got Hall cheap last year but overpaid him this year. Got a good punter. Not much else.

Not drafting well? Check. Gibbs left ALL our picks for us when he left. We got Horton last year, Orakpo hopefully will work out this year. Anybody else a good pick as of right now? We may be getting LESS results with more picks by Vinny/Danny than Gibbs got with FEWER.

All this "winning the offseason" and "not much quality FA" and "not drafting well" is just like it was before Gibbs II. That's why I say it's a trainwreck all over again. We were .500 last year, which aint bad for a rookie head coach. But Vinny and Danny have done little to keep the team from sliding back down to the bad old days.

Vinny/Danny squandered their first draft since Gibbs II trying to flood the pass catcher positions, and we're still soldiering on with old Moss and Randel-El. And they tried renovating our D front seven with Big Al and Orakpo this year. Maybe THAT upgrade will work, but can we afford to upgrade EVERY part of our team with the $ we gave Big Al?

Coaching is another issue. This post is an essay already. Long story short, Danny/Vinny picked Zorn, they called the shots managing this team. If they fire Zorn after only two years, Vinny/Danny have only themselves to blame.