SI: Peter King's MMQB And Thoughts About The Redskins Suing Fans

[Going Commando]

The fact that you equate an obscure sports writer with S.I. as being on an equal par as a front page headline on MSN in terms of the audience reached just proves once again that you don't understand. As McD5 said, it is insane to try and defend this as a good, sound business descision. And we've just blackened our own eye in the face of national press coverage.

I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him THINK.

Obscure? I'd venture a guess that Peter King is the most famous sport's writer in the biz. Definitely the most famous NFL writer. Maybe Peter Gammon's could give him a run for his money. You just defeated your own argument with that line.

[Going Commando]

Definitely changes the math :yes:...unfortunately a lot of people have very little understanding or knowledge of how business economics work. They base their conclusions on faulty business "myths" about how companies and coorporations run.

And I'm still floored that the Redksins are singled out as being "evil" for doing something that as many as 22 other owners are also doing!! lol :rotflmao:...I swear, that just gets glossed over by way too many people following this story.

Yeah not only that, but it isn't like this is the first time the Redskins have done it either. This has been standard practice for years and nobody saw fit to ***** about it then. Honestly, what is the issue here? The team was within it's legal rights to do everything it did and I wouldn't call the suits frivolous.

And I agree that if you are dumb enough to get into a contract for super expensive seats you can't afford then you need to figure out a way to settle any dispute you'll inevitably cause before it goes to litigation. There is no such thing as a pity mulligan for people who default on loans and renege on contracts any where else in life. Why are we expecting the Redskins to be run differently?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Yeah not only that, but it isn't like this is the first time the Redskins have done it either. This has been standard practice for years and nobody saw fit to ***** about it then. Honestly, what is the issue here? The team was within it's legal rights to do everything it did and I wouldn't call the suits frivolous.

And I agree that if you are dumb enough to get into a contract for super expensive seats you can't afford then you need to figure out a way to settle any dispute you'll inevitably cause before it goes to litigation. There is no such thing as a pity mulligan for people who default on loans and renege on contracts any where else in life. Why are we expecting the Redskins to be run differently?

Because they're fans lol :yes:...and there's a special relationship between a sports team and its fans that should never, EVER be sullied by things like law suits and contracts.

What I find humorous is the "argument" some make about "The Skins have been mediocre for a decade yet they still expect their fans to pay for their Club Seats!"...following that logic, if the Skins make it to the NFC Championship game, they should raise the price of their Club Seat contracts by, say, 25%...if they make it to the Super Bowl, they should raise the price by 50%...and if they WIN the Super Bowl, they should double the price of the Club Seat contracts...and fans should NOT think about suing the Skins for reneging on their end of the contract and changing the price before the contract expires. Because, hey, they are fans...and fans should never sully the special relationship between themselves and their favorite team.

[Passizle]

What damage was caused?

Washington Post would've found something to write about, regardless.

Its not Dan Snyder's job to collect debt's. If you look at this situation underneath any different light, it may be easier for you to understand.

As I said before: Let me try calling VW and explaining to them how I'm a huge fan of their cars and then ask if I can get out of my current contract with them. The tow-truck will be in my driveway before I can hangup the phone.

I dont think thats an "apples to apples" comparison. I get you point, but the club seats are very much in demand. The car... not so much. Also what needs to be brought to attention is that I find it very odd, that the Redskins can sue for the full amount owed, then resell the tickets to another buyer for full price. Thats where the "fuzzy" part of the legal limit is reached IMO.

But a contract a contract. WHile feel bad for the people involved, they were not too bright when it came to maing that decision. Kind of like the sub-prime" houseing debacle. A guy who makes 25K a year buy a 500K house with little money down. Then wonders why the paymet is so high when the rate adjusts...

Common sense should have said "Hey dummy... I know the thought of owning a house in this price range is great, but you cant realistically afford it." Same should be said for the people entering into the ticket contracts...

[Destino]

Definitely changes the math :yes:...unfortunately a lot of people have very little understanding or knowledge of how business economics work. They base their conclusions on faulty business "myths" about how companies and coorporations run.

And I'm still floored that the Redksins are singled out as being "evil" for doing something that as many as 22 other owners are also doing!! lol :rotflmao:...I swear, that just gets glossed over by way too many people following this story.

I'd argue that you have very little understanding of how business works. Part of business, any business, is image. Image is a lot easier to to damage than it is to build up. Public relations are a major part of any business and the Redskins are not special in this regard. Taking fans that have been season ticket holders for decades and forcing them into bankruptcy during an economic downturn is bad press. Having a fan hold up an altered contract is bad press.

The damage was most certainly done and anyone that listened to the radio the day the story broke or the day after can see it. Fans from all over the area lined up to call and share their stories about how terribly run the ticket office is and how they've been given terrible service. Which in turn lead to question surrounding the waiting list which now seems to be a total fantasy. Without the story breaking in the first place none of this would have happened. Whenever a business seeks to go after it's own client base they must do it on a case by case basis. Treating everyone with a one size fits all debt collection solution is frankly stupid. Press matters and again it takes longer to fix than it does to damage. The skins, as evidenced by comments here and on the radio for two days straight, obviously are now viewed in a much more negative light by many of their own fans.

You may not agree but your position doesn't really change anything does it? The number of furious fans remain no matter what you might think. Is that worth the money? I don't think so. Why do you think Exxon has alternative energy commercials? Why do you think drug companies are giving away life saving drugs to sick people that can't afford them? It's because both recently had PR nightmares and are working hard (and spending tons) to repair their images. That's part of business.

[Going Commando]

Because they're fans lol :yes:...and there's a special relationship between a sports team and its fans that should never, EVER be sullied by things like law suits and contracts.

What I find humorous is the "argument" some make about "The Skins have been mediocre for a decade yet they still expect their fans to pay for their Club Seats!"...following that logic, if the Skins make it to the NFC Championship game, they should raise the price of their Club Seat contracts by, say, 25%...if they make it to the Super Bowl, they should raise the price by 50%...and if they WIN the Super Bowl, they should double the price of the Club Seat contracts...and fans should NOT think about suing the Skins for reneging on their end of the contract and changing the price before the contract expires. Because, hey, they are fans...and fans should never sully the special relationship between themselves and their favorite team.

Hey, I am a fan of Porsche. They should give me one of their cars and not make me pay for it.

Please. If anyone came out of this looking bad, it's the Post. If it wasn't ridiculously apparent how much of an agenda they have against the team, it definitely is now. And Wilbon taking the company line like he did in the article in your other thread makes him look like a moron who opined on a topic he knew little about. Oh wait, we already knew he did that about everything.

[elkabong82]

Something tells me if Peter King had taken the negative angle on this (which I'm very surprised he didn't), there would be a lot more posts in here.

[bubba9497]

anyone but Snyder, this is a non story

[McD5]

You need to think this through.

The money the club recovers from ticket holders who default is pretty much irrelevant. What is much more relevant is the message that would be sent to other contracted season ticket holders if the club did NOT persue these debts.

The message sent, is that if you currently have club seats, you better check your contract and see how soon you can dump them.

The second message is, "if you were ever thinking about a future purchase of club seats, forget it."

It is total, 100% failure.

And, recognizing this.......the team has decided to stop suing that one lady. If suing was so beneficial, why did they change their minds?:doh:

Definitely changes the math :yes:...unfortunately a lot of people have very little understanding or knowledge of how business economics work.

You have no understanding of how business works. That is very apparent. After seeing how bad their decision was, they reversed it. What does that tell you? :doh:

I'd argue that you have very little understanding of how business works. Part of business, any business, is image. Image is a lot easier to to damage than it is to build up. Public relations are a major part of any business and the Redskins are not special in this regard. Taking fans that have been season ticket holders for decades and forcing them into bankruptcy during an economic downturn is bad press. Having a fan hold up an altered contract is bad press.

Great post. No sense in even wasting your time, however.

[Destino]

Because they're fans lol :yes:...and there's a special relationship between a sports team and its fans that should never, EVER be sullied by things like law suits and contracts

Maybe on your planet this is true. Snyder's disrespect for fans however lead me to stop spending any money at all on redskins gear or tickets prior to last season. This latest episode just reinforces that belief.

I loved the team before Dan showed up and I'll be cheering for them after he leaves. That does not mean however that I'll turn a blind eye to everything the team does.

Can you name one other time in the teams history that they've had to go to a silent count in their home stadium because so many opposing fans showed up like they did last year? I'd say that I'm not alone.

[GibbsFactor]

People that are pissed about this are the same ones wanting more and more handouts from the government.

This town needs an enema.

[MattFancy]

I don't think it will make a huge difference. People will still shell out the cash to go and see the Skins. Don't we lead the league in sell-outs or we're right near the top? Yeah some people will be upset, but it won't stop people from going to the games and supporting the Skins.

[InsaneBoost]

I didn't expect this coming from him.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

The message sent, is that if you currently have club seats, you better check your contract and see how soon you can dump them.

The second message is, "if you were ever thinking about a future purchase of club seats, forget it."

It is total, 100% failure.

And, recognizing this.......the team has decided to stop suing that one lady. If suing was so beneficial, why did they change their minds?:doh:

You have no understanding of how business works. That is very apparent.

After seeing how bad their decision was, they reversed it. What does that tell you? :doh:

Great post. No sense in even wasting your time, however.

This is what's wrong with America we have people who feel sorry for the financial idiots who make these mistake and should be let off with a slap on the wrist. I bet u felt sorry for those who defaulted on their home loans too. It doesn't work that way u have to pay the price for what u do. Who cares if it was the redskins that sued because master card would Bmw would, and the list goes on. These people deserve what they got and I don't feel sorry one bit.

[@DCGoldPants]

I'd argue that you have very little understanding of how business works. Part of business, any business, is image. Image is a lot easier to to damage than it is to build up. Public relations are a major part of any business and the Redskins are not special in this regard. Taking fans that have been season ticket holders for decades and forcing them into bankruptcy during an economic downturn is bad press. Having a fan hold up an altered contract is bad press.

The damage was most certainly done and anyone that listened to the radio the day the story broke or the day after can see it. Fans from all over the area lined up to call and share their stories about how terribly run the ticket office is and how they've been given terrible service. Which in turn lead to question surrounding the waiting list which now seems to be a total fantasy. Without the story breaking in the first place none of this would have happened. Whenever a business seeks to go after it's own client base they must do it on a case by case basis. Treating everyone with a one size fits all debt collection solution is frankly stupid. Press matters and again it takes longer to fix than it does to damage. The skins, as evidenced by comments here and on the radio for two days straight, obviously are now viewed in a much more negative light by many of their own fans.

You may not agree but your position doesn't really change anything does it? The number of furious fans remain no matter what you might think. Is that worth the money? I don't think so. Why do you think Exxon has alternative energy commercials? Why do you think drug companies are giving away life saving drugs to sick people that can't afford them? It's because both recently had PR nightmares and are working hard (and spending tons) to repair their images. That's part of business.

I think this is the best post from anybody on this topic. I think it could apply to the Ticket Broker fiasco too.

The Redskins are a brand. While its harder for true fans to switch to another team. You can tune down your fandom to not spending money on the team.

For being a Marketing guy. Snyder sure has sucked at PR with this team. There isn't going to be a Dan Snyder road around here for his years of giving back. Even if he is. He doesn't come across as a guy who cares about the community.

[SkinsFanInTennessee]

I just can't believe we are STILL talking about this. Either you like it, or you don't. I have to imagine that every viewpoint has been expressed... in how many different threads now?? As soon as another sports writer comes out with another story about it, we get to debate this all over again. Its game week, and yet, we cant stop talking about this...Geeez can we hurry up and beat the Giants so we have something else to talk about...:gaintsuck

[elkabong82]

I think this is the best post from anybody on this topic. I think it could apply to the Ticket Broker fiasco too.

The Redskins are a brand. While its harder for true fans to switch to another team. You can tune down your fandom to not spending money on the team.

For being a Marketing guy. Snyder sure has sucked at PR with this team. There isn't going to be a Dan Snyder road around here for his years of giving back. Even if he is. He doesn't come across as a guy who cares about the community.

Yeah, he's sucked so bad with PR they're selling out every home game since he's been owner.

The way the media portrays him he doesn't come across as a guy who cares about the community. However, if you bothered to read about all the charity work and donations carried out by Snyder and the Skins, you wouldn't get that impression. Unfortunately, good news on Snyder et al doesn't get the front page of the sports section, instead a ticket broker issue which was resolved months ago, and an old lady getting sued which the team dropped, merits more coverage.

People are going to believe what they want to though, and see what they want to. Some people see an old lady who made poor financial decisions and then didn;t even bother talking with the team or lawyer to work something out, and that out of only 125 law suits, this type of business isn't conducted with frequency. Some see a team that once they were made aware of the old lady's situation, resolved it. Then there are others who only see Snyder kicking the old lady in the head while Cerrato steals her purse.

Do people who admit their extreme dislike of Snyder when discussing issues regarding him believe they are able to discuss the matter with an open mind? Because I haven't seen it through this whole story. Heck, even King managed to stay neutral, yet there are certain fans on here acting like 1 lady getting sued is business as usual for the Skins, and that they sue fans every single day. Heck, you all aren't even bothering to read the entire articles, which is blatantly obvious by the fact so many think club seats are part of the waiting list, and that GA ticket holders are being sued, neither of which is actually true.

Perhaps if people weren't so quick to jump the gun and feed whatever negative borderline obsessive perception of Snyder they have, they wouldn't be confusing facts. Then again, if they weren't confusing facts and simply nodding their heads because the Post doesn't like Snyder either, then the perception might not be so negative. Some people want to follow the Post's lead though, and ***** about things that happened a decade ago, and continue a grudge, rather than give someone they intially didn;t like any credit from that point on.

[Destino]

This is what's wrong with America we have people who feel sorry for the financial idiots who make these mistake and should be let off with a slap on the wrist. I bet u felt sorry for those who defaulted on their home loans too. It doesn't work that way u have to pay the price for what u do. Who cares if it was the redskins that sued because master card would Bmw would, and the list goes on. These people deserve what they got and I don't feel sorry one bit.

Yeah too much compassion during one of the worst economic downturns in recent history is definitely what is wrong with America. :doh: Do you even read the BS you bang out on a keyboard?

[Destino]

Yeah, he's sucked so bad with PR they're selling out every home game since he's been owner.

Yeah who would have thought opposing team fans would buy so many seats!

[elkabong82]

Yeah who would have thought opposing team fans would buy so many seats!

Yeah, one game means its the norm, and not an exception in a diverse area with a very large stadium and the opponent isn;t far away. Seeing as you've used the old lady to pretend like the Redskins do that sort of thing all the time, it doesn;'t surprise me you are confusing exceptions with the norm.

Guess what though, that Steelers debacle was our fault. Our fanbase slipped up. Even the ticket broker incident wasn't big enough to allow that many Steelers fan in. Our own fans had to be selling their tickets as well. So if you're going to bash the team for putting tickets on StubHub, you've got to bash the fans too. We let our stadium get overrun, and by a fanbase that comes from a city and area which is much worse off than the DC Metro Area.

But I got it. You hate Snyder, so therefor everything he does is evil, anybody who says he;'s doing something bad is automatically right, and anybody who disagrees with you is "delusional" or working for Snyder. Awesome. Good to know I can have a reasonable disucssion on the matter with you.

[SilkyDiamonds]

Just a couple of questions................

What owner doesn't give charitably?

What exactly has The Snyder Administration done footballwise to elicit such fervent support other than OWNING our favorite team?

Dont tell me he's opened his checkbook, he could have closed it and ended up with about the same 10 year performance as Mike Brown

[Gregpeck99]

I don't feel for the idiotic fans who agreed to a multi-year license ... its not as if the Skins fielded a decent product over say the last 20 years or so ... and I don't blame Snyderonski for chasing the dollars. In a "Madoff economy" every one grabs what they can.

[@DCGoldPants]

somebody is taking it personally.

Selling out today doesn't mean he hasn't damaged for years to come. Especially selling out thanks to ticket brokers getting to jump to the front of the waiting list.

I'm a ticket holder, and will continue to be.

Does this type of stuff mean I'm less likely to buy a new jersey or another beer? I don't know. Maybe.

[Zombie4Skins]

This is what's wrong with America we have people who feel sorry for the financial idiots who make these mistake and should be let off with a slap on the wrist. These people deserve what they got and I don't feel sorry one bit.

I've been away from this board for a little while (in fact I had to open a whole new account), and coming back and reading these posts has really surprised me. I think that there can be no better indicator of the sickness and dysfunction of this once great team, then the hostility and rudeness with which fellow fans treat each other.

It seems like the bitterness and self hatred is so systemic to 'Skins fans in general, that our only option is to constantly and consistently treat fellow fans with derision, mocking, and venom.

Frequently when a fellow member posts an opinion it is immediately met with hostility and and number of "n00b, gtfo, I'M a MUCH BETTER fan then YOU are!" posts.

Yes, the old lady signed a contract, but more IMPORTANTLY, she has bled Burgundy and Gold for over 40 years! The fact that a fellow member of our community is in trouble, SHOULD elicit some type of sympathy. I've even seen other teams fans start fundraisers out of kindness. That's we we lack. We are not KIND to each other. We vent our anger on each other. We call each other names. We've lost sight of the fact that we are ALL supposed to be on the same side. Sympathy and kindness toward a fellow fan should be the RULE, not the exception. Honestly, some of us treat each other worse then we do fans of opposing teams. We seem to have such an inferiority complex as a group, that we immediately lash out at ANYONE, especially fellow fans.

I haven't seen this level of self animosity on any other teams forum. Other fans respect each other and pull for each other. If one person is suffering a personal hardship then others try to help.

All I see from us is "I don't care.", "Serves you right.", "You're an idiot.", and on and on. Where is our comaradarie and group spirit? Where is our patience and empathy for other 'Skins fans? We seem to be much more interested in pissing each other off and shouting each other down. We argue constantly about who's the "better" fan. If another fan has an opinion that we don't agree with we tell them to F-off and go support a different team.

On top of that, we have a front office that reenforces this attitude by constantly proving to us just how little they care about us as fans. The raise our rates, charge us fees for everything imaginable, screw us with obstructed view seats, and make sure that we understand that we are all $$$ to them and nothing more. Then, if a fan suffers a personal crisis, instead of making us feel like our love is returned, they say in essence "We don't care HOW long you've been a loyal fan, or what you're going through. PAY US, or we will sue you into oblivion." Then the saddest part is all the fellow fans that defend this behavior as being right and fair.

Regardless of any contract, the woman has supported the team for DECADES! She is worthy of a little kindness and sympathy, not all these "she's an idiot. I'm glad she got sued." posts that I see.

As I said, I think that the treatment we show the fellow fan to the left and right of us speaks volumes about the state of the team. In as much as Snyder has made it clear that he is out for himself, I guess now we are all out for ourselves as well. Is it any wonder that we seem to dislike each other so much? When we start pulling together and treating each other with respect and a unity of team spirit, then we will be a great team again. As long as we devolve into this "Lord of the Flies" mentality, we will continue to suck.

[elkabong82]

somebody is taking it personally.

Selling out today doesn't mean he hasn't damaged for years to come. Especially selling out thanks to ticket brokers getting to jump to the front of the waiting list.

I'm a ticket holder, and will continue to be.

Does this type of stuff mean I'm less likely to buy a new jersey or another beer? I don't know. Maybe.

I haven't seen anyone in here taking it personally. Typically that type of argument is used when the accuser has nothing left.

Ticket brokers weren't a large enough incident to account for the large number of Steeler fans there, and you know this. We the fanbase are to blame.

So you are still a ticket holder and this story hasn't really swayed you enough to completely want to stop buying merchandise. My feelings, based on the lack of major national coverage and the fact this isn;t being discussed too heavily anymore, are that most of the fanbase is this way.