SI: Peter King's MMQB And Thoughts About The Redskins Suing Fans

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Yeah too much compassion during one of the worst economic downturns in recent history is definitely what is wrong with America. :doh: Do you even read the BS you bang out on a keyboard?

So stupidity should be rewarded? Is that what u are saying? And why were in this downturn? Because boneheads couldn't afford homes and ran up their credit cards then defaulted.

[Destino]

Yeah, one game means its the norm, and not an exception in a diverse area with a very large stadium and the opponent isn;t far away. Seeing as you've used the old lady to pretend like the Redskins do that sort of thing all the time, it doesn;'t surprise me you are confusing exceptions with the norm.

Where have I argued any of this nonsense? I've never said the steeler's game was the norm but being that we are talking about it, care to name the last time the skins went to a silent count at their home stadium? Or failing that, name the last time the Eagles, Cowboys, or Giants did. Good luck.

I also never argued that the "old lady" was the norm. What I did say is that these things have to be handled case by case for a reason. She's one such reason.

Nice straw man attempt.

Guess what though, that Steelers debacle was our fault. Our fanbase slipped up. Even the ticket broker incident wasn't big enough to allow that many Steelers fan in. Our own fans had to be selling their tickets as well. So if you're going to bash the team for putting tickets on StubHub, you've got to bash the fans too. We let our stadium get overrun, and by a fanbase that comes from a city and area which is much worse off than the DC Metro Area.

Right, never blame the team for anything but blaming the fans is ok. Collective guilt makes sense to you, but team behavior should always be praised. This is really a position you want to take?! Really?! Have you once, just once, stopped and asked yourself why so many fans would rather do something else than attend the game?

But I got it. You hate Snyder, so therefor everything he does is evil, anybody who says he;'s doing something bad is automatically right, and anybody who disagrees with you is "delusional" or working for Snyder. Awesome. Good to know I can have a reasonable disucssion on the matter with you.

I have accused anyone of being delusional or working for Snyder. If you want to argue with yourself don't let me stop you. As for Snyder I think the guy is a bum owner. His stance on reselling of tickets was so noble... until he signs a deal with stubhub which is pretty much the most expensive source for tickets on the web. He tries to charge for attending practice, tries to force fans to sign up for a specific credit card, and expand their "premium seating" to squeeze every penny out of the stadium instead of letting more of their actual fans in. Nevermind the obvious state of chaos that is the ticket office.

But feel free to ignore my actual points and make up your own, you've done such a great job of it so far.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Y

Guess what though, that Steelers debacle was our fault. Our fanbase slipped up.

This is exactly correct. I know it's off-topic, but I can't believe that MNF game has turned into a black eye for Snyder! That one is on us. I would say that 95% of the people who own Redskin season tickets are Redskin fans.

Therefore, if that many Steeler fans got into our stadium, then it's on the fans who looked to cash in and sell their tickets. Period. I can't imagine how anyone would try to debate that.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Right, never blame the team for anything but blaming the fans is ok. Collective guilt makes sense to you, but team behavior should always be praised. This is really a position you want to take?! Really?! Have you once, just once, stopped and asked yourself why so many fans would rather do something else than attend the game?

So, what is your defense of the fanbase for their complete no-show during that game? Remember, there was no reason for anyone to be disenchanted with the organization or the team (we were 6-2).

I'd like to hear how the organization caused so many fans to give up their tickets that night.

[@DCGoldPants]

I haven't seen anyone in here taking it personally. Typically that type of argument is used when the accuser has nothing left.

Ticket brokers weren't a large enough incident to account for the large number of Steeler fans there, and you know this. We the fanbase are to blame.

So you are still a ticket holder and this story hasn't really swayed you enough to completely want to stop buying merchandise. My feelings, based on the lack of major national coverage and the fact this isn;t being discussed too heavily anymore, are that most of the fanbase is this way.

I think Destino said everything perfectly again.

Let me add. This will all blow over when the 79th Anniversary throwbacks are released.

Wait...this fanbase slipped up? The team admitted they were selling tickets to Brokers. Who do you think bought probably ALL of those tickets for the Steeler game? Ding Ding Ding. They were probably on ASC and Stubhub when the schedule was released for 08

[Destino]

So stupidity should be rewarded? Is that what u are saying? And why were in this downturn? Because boneheads couldn't afford homes and ran up their credit cards then defaulted.

First of all an economic downturn destroying your income isn't always the result of stupidity. Some of the brightest professionals in the country are seeing a loss of income at the moment. Just because you're particular situation has yet to be affected doesn't make you smart, it makes you lucky, being that you have no control at all over what sectors of the market are affected in the first place.

Second the downturn is not from "bonehead that couldn't afford their homes". It happened when lending standards were relaxed in response to growing demand for more mortgage backed securities in the secondary market. I'm sure you knew that though smart guy.

Third no one is asking the team to reward people, only to do a better job looking out for their own interests. Now a obviously smart guy like you is sure to understand the concept that perhaps good PR is worth more than the face value of those tickets.

[tshile]

What exactly has The Snyder Administration done footballwise to elicit such fervent support other than OWNING our favorite team?

i'm getting somewhat sick of this.

its not 'supporting' snyder.

its just not supporting the idea that people can skip out on their responsibilities, and pin it on other factors (mean business practices, racism, sexism, age, etc).

You're an adult.

When you enter into a contract, you are legally bound to it.

When you don't fultill your end of the contract, you can be sued by the other person.

When you then don't bother to show up to court, the judge finds against you.

And when you then proceed to not pay the judgement, you don't get your tickets either.

Welcome

to

the

real

****ing

world.

This idea that you can skip out on your responsibilities, and so many people would support it, is ridiculous. We're becoming a country where its ok to make terrible decisions - someone else will take care of the results for you. What a joke.

Don't confuse that with 'supporting snyder'. Because there is a clear difference. I certainly don't like snyder (for many reasons), and would love to see him gone.

Also - if you want to discuss whether or not a team shoudl require 6, 8, or 10 year contracts, and if the team should charge what it charges for those premium seats then thats one thing. But to think that the team doesn't have the legal right, or the obligation to its investers, to uphold the contracts (worth 10's and 100's of thousands of dollars) is ridiculous.

But thats fine, keep running around screaming about how snyder is sueing grandma's. Just let me know when you get sick of having your head in the sand; we can discuss more then.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think Destino said everything perfectly again.

Let me add. This will all blow over when the 79th Anniversary throwbacks are released.

So, because Snyder changes things up with throwbacks occasionally, he's bad?

[tshile]

Second the downturn is not from "bonehead that couldn't afford their homes". It happened when lending standards were relaxed in response to growing demand for more mortgage backed securities in the secondary market. I'm sure you knew that though smart guy.

not that this is the time or place for this, but that goes both ways.

there's a lot of money to be made by lending money to careless/financially irresponsible people who think its ok to take out a credit card at 30% interest and then max it out. or people who fail to look beyond 4 years at their obligation to their mortgage, and their ability to pay whats owed in month 90 of their 30 year loan.

its certainly not all the borrowers fault, but its not all the lenders fault either. and at the end of the day, if you got took for your money, its your fault; rarely can you sit back and blame someone else and be truthful in your assesment of what happened.

smart guy.

[Destino]

So, what is your defense of the fanbase for their complete no-show during that game? Remember, there was no reason for anyone to be disenchanted with the organization or the team (we were 6-2).

I'd like to hear how the organization caused so many fans to give up their tickets that night.

For one I question how many premium seats are owned by actual fans and how many of those fans actually attend. Personally I think the stadium has too many premium seats and too many actual skins fans are priced out because of it. I've sat everywhere in the stadium and no where is the crowd more likely to be filled with fake ass fans screaming their heads off while our offense is on the field than in the expensive seats.

The GA area is where you finds fans that know football, like for example that you don't scream when your team is offense and you do when they are on defense. Turn the volume up on your TV during the next home game... listen to the stadium when the skins have the ball.

[Destino]

not that this is the time or place for this, but that goes both ways.

there's a lot of money to be made by lending money to careless/financially irresponsible people who think its ok to take out a credit card at 30% interest and then max it out. or people who fail to look beyond 4 years at their obligation to their mortgage, and their ability to pay whats owed in month 90 of their 30 year loan.

its certainly not all the borrowers fault, but its not all the lenders fault either. and at the end of the day, if you got took for your money, its your fault; rarely can you sit back and blame someone else and be truthful in your assesment of what happened.

smart guy.

The credit policies that were relaxed. Who came up with them and why? Why were the relaxed? You don't have to answer, I already know. I know that they ran out of mortgage backed securities at a time when everyone was making a ton of money on them and they needed more. I know that no one talks about this side of it because frankly almost no one knows what any of that is. You talk about failing to look beyond a few years for the individual when the companies were lending money 500k to McDonald's employees all because they needed more securities to sell and make short term gains.

[@DCGoldPants]

So, because Snyder changes things up with throwbacks occasionally, he's bad?

Its a joke. Relax.

Look in the Uni threads. I want a full throwback to the Larry Brown days.

75th was fine. 70th seemed odd.

You going to do something every 5 years?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

i'm getting somewhat sick of this.

its not 'supporting' snyder.

I'm going to take this one step further. People who happen to agree with the organization from time to time aren't always "homers", "apologists", or "team employees" as they're constantly labeled.

It's possible that there are objective people who look at each issue individually. Not everyone has to automatically hate everything Snyder does just because we've been conditioned to hate the man. The fact that Peter King agrees with him on this topic should illustrate that point.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Its a joke. Relax.

Look in the Uni threads. I want a full throwback to the Larry Brown days.

75th was fine. 70th seemed odd.

You going to do something every 5 years?

Oh, I think I've agreed with you in that thread then. Those unis are sick. Oh, I'm relaxed, no worries.

And I'd be fine with them doing something every 5 years if they're going to keep the current unis...

[@DCGoldPants]

Oh, I think I've agreed with you in that thread then. Those unis are sick. Oh, I'm relaxed, no worries.

And I'd be fine with them doing something every 5 years if they're going to keep the current unis...

give me this, and stop with the other alt uni's.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

For one I question how many premium seats are owned by actual fans and how many of those fans actually attend. Personally I think the stadium has too many premium seats and too many actual skins fans are priced out because of it. I've sat everywhere in the stadium and no where is the crowd more likely to be filled with fake ass fans screaming their heads off while our offense is on the field than in the expensive seats.

The GA area is where you finds fans that know football, like for example that you don't scream when your team is offense and you do when they are on defense. Turn the volume up on your TV during the next home game... listen to the stadium when the skins have the ball.

Fake fans or not, they are Redskin fans who bought tickets. You can't ask an organization to charge less money than they can in order to hopefully attract a "better brand" of football fans and avoid casual fans selling off their tickets.

The stadium is too big...period. It's in a horrible location...period. I don't blame the ticket holders individually for not wanting to attend that game. I went, it sucked to get there, to be there, and to get home. However, the reasons that the game day experience is lackluster stem from things out of Snyder's control. 92K seats in Landover, MD is never going to give the Skins a true home field advantage.

[ntotoro]

Wait...this fanbase slipped up? The team admitted they were selling tickets to Brokers. Who do you think bought probably ALL of those tickets for the Steeler game? Ding Ding Ding. They were probably on ASC and Stubhub when the schedule was released for 08

Hell, they probably set their Outlook reminder to check every four years to see if we play them here or in Western Pa...

[Gibbsisgod2006]

First of all an economic downturn destroying your income isn't always the result of stupidity. Some of the brightest professionals in the country are seeing a loss of income at the moment. Just because you're particular situation has yet to be affected doesn't make you smart, it makes you lucky, being that you have no control at all over what sectors of the market are affected in the first place.

Second the downturn is not from "bonehead that couldn't afford their homes". It happened when lending standards were relaxed in response to growing demand for more mortgage backed securities in the secondary market. I'm sure you knew that though smart guy.

Third no one is asking the team to reward people, only to do a better job looking out for their own interests. Now a obviously smart guy like you is sure to understand the concept that perhaps good PR is worth more than the face value of those tickets.

Yes it is from people that have defaulted on home loans, people who got arms instead of fixed rates or interest only loans. That caused about 60% of the economic downturn. By supporting this you support stupid financial decisions plain and simple.

By the way I was laid off last summer. I had bought a new house that December before and a new car that May and had child that same month I was laid off that July. So i know what it is like to be affected but I survived by making sound financial decisions.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

give me this, and stop with the other alt uni's.

I'd like to sign your petition.

[ntotoro]

Its a joke. Relax.

Look in the Uni threads. I want a full throwback to the Larry Brown days.

75th was fine. 70th seemed odd.

You going to do something every 5 years?

Frankly, I was shocked he didn't try to sell jerseys at a markup with the GSM patch during the season his Father died.

[SilkyDiamonds]

First off I asked two VERY SIMPLE questions to which you have not answered. But Ill play along just a bit, the old lady was wrong no doubt about it.

What does what your are saying have to do with those 2 questions?

It OBVIOUSLY is a P.R. nightmare, no matter how you slice it, she's deadbeat no doubt, but does a BILLION dollar enterprise suing her for maybe a hundredth of a percent of total revenue make good business sense when goodwill, perception,winning and community attachment is the grease that oils your wheels ?

Can she sue because she thought she was buying a product that was advertised as being a winner, but turns out to be a loser?

No you'll say, she's buying a ticket to a game to which the outcome is totally independent of her expectations, and rightly so.

It is their legal right to sue, but when it now makes the rest of the football world now, to see that the owner of a franchise that is making a multiple of what other teams are maikng is contemplating suing the very people responsible for making said team allowed to be in such position. It does, ring to all that hear that maybe garnering an extra 66+k means more than the man at the top making decisions that make said debtor want to find a way to WANT to pay for those tickets(it is telling that the highest counsel in the organization has decided it is much better to forgive the debt than to forlong the P.R> nightmare)

Here's the structural basis for my opining, had the organization PROVIDED a tangible ( not illusionary) product, this old woman being sued would have been received in the light that apologists have wanted.

But she as a deadbeat buyer, and the ownership as a callous orgnaiztion have chosen to make this public fodder for DEBATE, and therefore it WILL be debated

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Frankly, I was shocked he didn't try to sell jerseys at a markup with the GSM patch during the season his Father died.

Classy.

[ntotoro]

Classy.

I try.

I can't try to buy it like Pretzel Boy, though.

[Destino]

Yes it is from people that have defaulted on home loans, people who got arms instead of fixed rates or interest only loans. That caused about 60% of the economic downturn. By supporting this you support stupid financial decisions plain and simple.

Supporting what? You are talking about a tiny fraction of what actually happened and are claiming to understand it. Do you even know what a mortgage backed security is and what role it played? I doubt it.

[Destino]

Fake fans or not, they are Redskin fans who bought tickets. You can't ask an organization to charge less money than they can in order to hopefully attract a "better brand" of football fans and avoid casual fans selling off their tickets.

The stadium is too big...period. It's in a horrible location...period. I don't blame the ticket holders individually for not wanting to attend that game. I went, it sucked to get there, to be there, and to get home. However, the reasons that the game day experience is lackluster stem from things out of Snyder's control. 92K seats in Landover, MD is never going to give the Skins a true home field advantage.

So you think the stadium would be the same if they expanded the number of GA seats and scaled back the premium seats? You know... something to get that big fat waiting list into the stadium?