WP: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

[MattFancy]

I'm confused at how a firefighting test could be unfair to black people? I mean how does your race factor into how you fight fire, safety and such. I don't know what is on the test, but that one baffles me.

I know cops that used to get mad that women/ minorities got hired before the white guy cause of the different lists per group. My only comeback was that I was #5 outta 450 overall- and just happened to be the #1 female. I did get hired before the #4 overall(white guy) though.

It seems pretty cut and dry to me. Either you know the rules and procedures or you don't. I don't know how race/gender would change that.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Do you think blacks are far more likely than whites to be poor or commit crimes because they are somehow inherently different?

Not in the very least. I do believe that black communities tend to (and not all) use their race as a crutch and excuse to sit back and wait for help to come to them instead of changing things and acting out for themselves. That's a damn shame. That way of thinking is then passed down from parents to their children.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

It seems pretty cut and dry to me. Either you know the rules and procedures or you don't. I don't know how race/gender would change that.

....and the one guy was a dyslexic. So what'd he do? Instead of ****ing about having dyslexia he spent additional money for tutoring and studying so he could pass and he did.

Nobody in this ****ing country wants to take responsibility for their actions and where they are in life and what they've made of themselves.

[MattFancy]

....and the one guy was a dyslexic. So what'd he do? Instead of ****ing about having dyslexia he spent additional money for tutoring and studying so he could pass and he did.

Nobody in this ****ing country wants to take responsibility for their actions and where they are in life and what they've made of themselves.

I agree with that. There are some people who just expect things to be handed to them. That's not how it works. Sometimes you have to work for the things you want. If you really want it bad enough, you'll find a way to work harder to get it.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I agree with that. There are some people who just expect things to be handed to them. That's not how it works. Sometimes you have to work for the things you want. If you really want it bad enough, you'll find a way to work harder to get it.

Absolutely.

**** happens to every one. There are things we can't control, and some are dealt worse hands than others. We do control our response to situations and what we do with our lives. Some have to work harder than others, but in this country the opportunity is open to all: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[Madison Redskin]

Nobody in this ****ing country wants to take responsibility for their actions and where they are in life and what they've made of themselves.

There are also a lot of kids who are born on 3rd base, think they hit a triple, and wonder why some people foul out. Those kids are FAR more annoying than the people who want help in getting to 1st base.

[LaxBuddy21]

You should sign up to be a member of the Chinese Communist Party. It's amazing how members of the right who talk so much about "freedom" are often the ones who have no problem with freedoms being taken away from other people.

When it comes to choices that affect an individual, let them go crazy. When those choices impact the life of another human being then I think someone needs to step in. Would you have a problem if the government stepped in because a child was being abused? I see raising a child that you cannot afford and dont really care about because all you want is the welfare check as abuse. If you cannot afford to take care of yourself, bringing a child into that situation is abuse and should be treated as such.

[LaxBuddy21]

....and the one guy was a dyslexic. So what'd he do? Instead of ****ing about having dyslexia he spent additional money for tutoring and studying so he could pass and he did.

Nobody in this ****ing country wants to take responsibility for their actions and where they are in life and what they've made of themselves.

I am really tired of us trying to completely level the playing field. Fact of life is some people have to work harder than others. Some people have different abilities. Some people grow up more advantaged than others. Stop lowering the standard so everyone wins and start teaching those who have to work harder to actually get out there and do it! If you want it bad enough, you will work until you get it. If you are not willing to work for it, I am not willing to help you.

[Burgold]

There are also a lot of kids who are born on 3rd base, think they hit a triple, and wonder why some people foul out. Those kids are FAR more annoying than the people who want help in getting to 1st base.

That's a very well written line.

[LaxBuddy21]

There are also a lot of kids who are born on 3rd base, think they hit a triple, and wonder why some people foul out. Those kids are FAR more annoying than the people who want help in getting to 1st base.

Too many kids want a ride to first base instead of dropping the bat and running. Heck some of them dont even want to take a swing at the ball. They just want to be awarded first base with no effort all because they see that kid sitting on third. Yea the kid on third has it easier but he does not appreciate where he is either. If we just give you first base, are you any better than that kid who was given third?

[MattFancy]

Too many kids want a ride to first base instead of dropping the bat and running. Heck some of them dont even want to take a swing at the ball. They just want to be awarded first base with no effort all because they see that kid sitting on third. Yea the kid on third has it easier but he does not appreciate where he is either. If we just give you first base, are you any better than that kid who was given third?

I like the baseball analogy lol

[LaxBuddy21]

I like the baseball analogy lol

I love analogies in general so I figured run with it....

[Tweedr01]

I love analogies in general so I figured run with it....

There's a pun somewhere in there.

[endzone_dave]

There are also a lot of kids who are born on 3rd base, think they hit a triple, and wonder why some people foul out. Those kids are FAR more annoying than the people who want help in getting to 1st base.

There are very few kids born on third base. Most people who get to third base had to work to get there. Too many people who foul out like to believe that people who are successful had everything handed to them. That just not true.

[Burgold]

Too many kids want a ride to first base instead of dropping the bat and running. Heck some of them dont even want to take a swing at the ball. They just want to be awarded first base with no effort all because they see that kid sitting on third. Yea the kid on third has it easier but he does not appreciate where he is either. If we just give you first base, are you any better than that kid who was given third?

Meh, how many people really want to get hit by the pitch? Sure, you get a free ride to first base, but that 98 mph rock to the melon sure can't feel good.

Sometimes, I think what's going on in these AA threads is just a case of fans who keep ****ing about the umps calls when they can't even see the plate.

[MattFancy]

I love analogies in general so I figured run with it....

But in all seriousness, what you said makes sense. Just because one person is handed something in life, doesn't mean everyone should get handouts. That kid might not have worked for anything yet, but I'm sure his parents or grandparent did. What's stopping the kid with nothing from trying to get something? At one point or another all of our parens, grandparents, and great grandparents had nothing. They all had to work to get where they wanted to go in life.

I don't mind the welfare system and it works great for people that lose jobs and use it for a few months until they get back on their feet (which is what I think it should be meant for). Its the people that don't want to work for anything because they know they will always get that welfare check just for being here. I think they should put a limit to how long you can stay on welfare. Then it wouldn't be abused like it is now.

[Corcaigh]

Most people who get to third base had to work to get there.

Not true. Some girls are sluts.

[Enzo]

I keep hearing how the test was unfair to minorities (blacks). Well, I want to see the test & judge that for myself or at least the critics should explain how it was unfair. They have done neither. All they have done is claim that the test was unfair because the results didn't give them what they wanted. I can truthfully say that in my life that I've known or met blacks that were complete morons & others that were brilliant. Of course the large majority of them have been just average with majority of them leaning to the brilliant side. Of course I could say this about every race that I've known or met large numbers of them. Now could this case with the fire fighters have just been a case of those certain blacks not being smart enough to pass that particular test. Of course we can never make that judgement until we are allowed to see the test. Until then I can't make a judgement either way. BTW, their is no such thing as reverse racism. If you don't like someone because of their race or skincolor you are a racist no matter what the color of your skin is.

[Burgold]

But in all seriousness, what you said makes sense. Just because one person is handed something in life, doesn't mean everyone should get handouts. That kid might not have worked for anything yet, but I'm sure his parents or grandparent did. What's stopping the kid with nothing from trying to get something? At one point or another all of our parens, grandparents, and great grandparents had nothing. They all had to work to get where they wanted to go in life.

There is an assumption here that all poor people are lazy bums who never fought for anything or work hard for anything. I think that's false. Some people who are poor work far harder and more diligently than many who are well off. Some work insanely hard and get nowhere. Also, everything really isn't equal. A 4.0 from Harvard means a hell of lot more than a 4.0 from Delaware State, studies show that employers do favor people who are more like them, and as we know networking is a huge key to both getting in the door and advancing... well, who has an advantage there? Poor people or the well to do?

Ironically, the problem is that it's not black or white. Very real differences exist due to social strata, race, gender, etc. Anyone who pretends there is true equality is lying to themselves and others. That's not to say there aren't leeches. That's not to say there aren't snobs. That's not to say there aren't self obsessed bums with an entitlement complex, or paranoid idiots, or bums. We have all of them, but these sweeping generalizations are just so incomplete.

[LaxBuddy21]

There are very few kids born on third base. Most people who get to third base had to work to get there. Too many people who foul out like to believe that people who are successful had everything handed to them. That just not true.

Who cares if there are a lot of kids born on third base? People need to worry about themselves and not what other people are doing. Im tired of hearing so and so has this so I deserve this too. So what? Lifes not fair. You work hard and get what you can out of life and thats it. I have a friend that went through a much easier degree program than I did in college and makes double what I make. Should I cry about it? No, I just keep working withing my own realm and do the best I can.

[MattFancy]

There is an assumption here that all poor people are lazy bums who never fought for anything or work hard for anything. I think that's false. Some people who are poor work far harder and more diligently than many who are well off. Some work insanely hard and get nowhere. Also, everything really isn't equal. A 4.0 from Harvard means a hell of lot more than a 4.0 from Delaware State, studies show that employers do favor people who are more like them, and as we know networking is a huge key to both getting in the door and advancing... well, who has an advantage there? Poor people or the well to do?

Ironically, the problem is that it's not black or white. Very real differences exist due to social strata, race, gender, etc. Anyone who pretends there is true equality is lying to themselves and others. That's not to say there aren't leeches. That's not to say there aren't snobs. That's not to say there aren't self obsessed bums with an entitlement complex, or paranoid idiots, or bums. We have all of them, but these sweeping generalizations are just so incomplete.

That's a fair point. And you are right that there are some who work hard and still don't get anywhere. But I'd say a good amount of them aren't willing to put in the time and effort.

I'm not saying everyone is on equal footing at all, I think there is a distnict advantage between the rich and poor. Look at Steve Jobs and the liver transplant thing as an example.

I guess my thing is that I just feel like some people feel like they should just get things handed to them, that includes rich and poor. That's not how it works. Nothing in life comes easy and you should have to work for what you have. It'll make you appreciate it more.

[SparkleMotion]

There are also a lot of kids who are born on 3rd base, think they hit a triple, and wonder why some people foul out. Those kids are FAR more annoying than the people who want help in getting to 1st base.

You don't get to first base by hating the guy on third for his parents succeeding somewhere along the line. Isn't the whole reason for working and making money to provide a better life for your children?

Instead of hating the guy on third and treating him like the enemy, try to figure out how he or his parents got there and work hard to make it happen for yourself.

It doesn't do any good to continue to promote a worldview where everybody who's rich is a greedy oppressor who needs to be knocked down a few pegs because he owes you something.

[LaxBuddy21]

There is an assumption here that all poor people are lazy bums who never fought for anything or work hard for anything. I think that's false. Some people who are poor work far harder and more diligently than many who are well off. Some work insanely hard and get nowhere. Also, everything really isn't equal. A 4.0 from Harvard means a hell of lot more than a 4.0 from Delaware State, studies show that employers do favor people who are more like them, and as we know networking is a huge key to both getting in the door and advancing... well, who has an advantage there? Poor people or the well to do?

Ironically, the problem is that it's not black or white. Very real differences exist due to social strata, race, gender, etc. Anyone who pretends there is true equality is lying to themselves and others. That's not to say there aren't leeches. That's not to say there aren't snobs. That's not to say there aren't self obsessed bums with an entitlement complex, or paranoid idiots, or bums. We have all of them, but these sweeping generalizations are just so incomplete.

I am sorry but there are always opportunities. My mom has worked hard her whole life with not a lot to show but there are a lot of things she could have done to get further ahead. Heck, right now she could take some classes if she wanted to. It would take time and hard work but she could do it and could help herself out. She chooses not to. Thats not to say my mom is lazy or anything. She is far from it but I still know there are opportunities for everyone you just have to be willing to put in the time and effort.

As far as the degrees from different schools, of course some look better than others. Those people who go into those big schools also worked harder to get there in most cases. Yes some bought their way in but again no on said life is fair. Should the person from Delaware with the same GPA as the person from Harvard that went through a more intense program get the job? No but that doesnt mean there are not other jobs out there for the person from Delaware. I have a degree from a no name school that no one outside of MD has probably ever heard of but I still got a job working with someone who has a degree from Harvard. The opportunities are out there people just need to stop complaining about what everyone else has and work with what they have. Take advantage of every opportunity if you want to advance!

[JMS]

There are very few kids born on third base. Most people who get to third base had to work to get there. Too many people who foul out like to believe that people who are successful had everything handed to them. That just not true.

Well that's not true. There are lots of folks born on third base. Check the 2004 Presidential race.

[JMS]

Who cares if there are a lot of kids born on third base? People need to worry about themselves and not what other people are doing. Im tired of hearing so and so has this so I deserve this too. So what? Lifes not fair. You work hard and get what you can out of life and thats it. I have a friend that went through a much easier degree program than I did in college and makes double what I make. Should I cry about it? No, I just keep working withing my own realm and do the best I can.

If I may paraphrase....

You don't always get what you waa-aaant....

You don't always get what you waa-aaant....

But if you try real hard, sometimes, you get what you needddddddddd..

I don't have a problem with afirmative action back in the 1970's-80s. I'm old enough to remember the civil rights marches and race riots. I don't think it was too large a price to pay, being someone who wasn't effected by that payment. I also think it's a pretty cool thing today that we have different races who have risen in the national conciousness to be trusted with our most important national offices, not because of their race; but in spite of it.

I think that was a huge payoff for affirmative action.

The question is, now that we've had a black chairman of the joint cheifs, two black Sec of State, and a black President; has the need for AA passed? I could make a case either way.

Certainly AA helped some minorities, and those folks to my mind no longer need AA to compete sucessfully. Just as certain is AA didn't make much of a difference to the vast majority of minorities out there, and likely never will.