Captain Wiggles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 clietas. That some French name, or somethin? Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 So using Torture would have changed what happened that day? And just because I don't agree with using torture doesn't mean I love terrorist. There are other ways to get info. Maybe if Intelligence Agencies like the NSA or CIA actually did there jobs they could gather more accurate info. Oh but what do I know I'm just some terrorist loving Liberal. The situation I gave you was pretty straight forward, all you needed to say was, "use other tactics besides torture.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Brown Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Maybe if Intelligence Agencies like the NSA or CIA actually did there jobs they could gather more accurate info. Easier said than done in my opinion. They don't torture people for lack of better methods of getting information. I'm sure if doing their job a different way produced better results than torture in certain situations they would use it. Torture has been around forever because it produces results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The situation I gave you was pretty straight forward, all you needed to say was, "use other tactics besides torture.". Um, that's why I said there are other ways to get info.:saber: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Easier said than done in my opinion. They don't torture people for lack of better methods of getting information. I'm sure if doing their job a different way produced better results than torture in certain situations they would use it. Torture has been around forever because it produces results. Those results are usually Bogus since anyone being tortured for a long enough period of time will tell you whatever you want to hear. Like I said earlier I'll tell you anything just as long as it makes the torture stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Um, that's why I said there are other ways to get info.:saber: In your opinion, is there any circumstance if American lives were on the line, where torture (breaking fingers, glass in eye type of stuff) would be okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I think we should treat people the way we would like our captured people to be treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Those results are usually Bogus since anyone being tortured for a long enough period of time will tell you whatever you want to hear. Like I said earlier I'll tell you anything just as long as it makes the torture stop. When you have vast resources and next to no leads/intel, a additional 5% legit leads accompanied by 95% bs is a major advance.(and I bet the percentage of useful intel is much more in most cases) How do you solve a crime w/o leads? True it costs to chase down false info,but it is more cost effective and efficient than having none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 In your opinion, is there any circumstance if American lives were on the line, where torture (breaking fingers, glass in eye type of stuff) would be okay? I don't think so. I mean Glass in the eye. Seriously your cool with that? Would you be cool with your local police department using these tactics on U.S. citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 First, I wouldn't put it past them.Substitute the bomb in the building with a terrorist with a bomb on his chest and he is going to blow himself up on a bus. I mean really do you need to be a dick about it? Me? You're the one who insists on creating a fictional scenario in which you've used your divine powers to declare that 1) The person you've captured is a terrorist. 2) An active plot is imminent. 3) The captured person knows how to prevent it. 4) Torture will work. 5) No other method will work 6) And the interrogator knows all of this information, with absolute certainty, before he begins the interrogation. Gee, I think we should make all decisions of morality based on artificial fictional scenarios, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I think we should treat people the way we would like our captured people to be treated. We have tried that,and still do with civilized enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Jack Bauer approves and that means I do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I'm going to assume you're an idiot. GS561 First of all , Larry didn't call you an idiot. He said he was going to assume you to be one based on your earlier words. Larry is completely within his rights to say this as it breaks no rules & is allowed. Many struggle to understand the rather simple meaning to Rule #5 because they tend to read into it things that simply are not there.:whoknows: We affectionately refer to them as challenged. They (you in this case) need to understand that if you post in a fashion that an average reasonable person may find idiotic as you did, then you can expect them to hold you accountable for it by using the word as long as the usage fits the context. Some people know how to do the give & take here ( Staff here tend to have it down to an art form) & keep it within the lines, some don't. Some just err at times. And Larry is one of those that has this down pat as well. HE should after all, since he's been here nearly nine years & has been able to watch us as a Staff hone our craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I DO think torture can be effective in getting information not normally attained through normal interrogation. I DO NOT believe the adoption of torture as a lawful means of extracting information from anyone in US custody is healthy for our nation's long term morals/values/ideals. I think it probably would/perhaps has solved some "short term" problems. However, in a world where America IS the standard bearer for freedom and humanity, lowering our standard of conduct would be catastrophic. I see it as being one of those issues that could really eat away at the fabric of what America is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I don't think so. I mean Glass in the eye. Seriously your cool with that? Would you be cool with your local police department using these tactics on U.S. citizens? Not to American citizens, if we know the person has intel and if it means saving one, yes, 1, one, uno American life I don't care what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I agree, Anyone is too broad A select few is another matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapatriot Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 These guys want to kill us. They cut off our soldiers heads and limbs and then drag them through the streets CELEBRATING! Torture is to good for these guys. Plus the are NOT protected by the Geneva Convetion. According to the Geneva Convention you have to fight under a flag and be in uniform to be protected. None of these morons qualify for either. That is why it is so dangerous to be a spy. You get zero protection. You do whatever you have to do to save American lives. I don't care if you kill a thousand terrorists to save one American. It is 100% worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 BTW, Maybe in all the spin, (accompanied by all sorts of matter being slung against all kinds of surfaces), I may have misread some things. But the impression I've got is that what we actually got from waterboarding KSM 180 times was . . . . A name. The name of some other terrorist. And that name allowed us to capture that 2nd terrorist. Who then gave us another name (as a result of interrogation tactics which have not been revealed.) And that that third terrorist allowed us to prevent a plot that was supposedly in operation. Have I got the sequence of events correct? The correct chain of who gave us what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Not to American citizens, if we know the person has intel and if it means saving one, yes, 1, one, uno American life I don't care what we do. Basically like most Americans you believe American life supersedes all others.:twitch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 These guys want to kill us. They cut off our soldiers heads and limbs and then drag them through the streets CELEBRATING! Torture is to good for these guys. Plus the are NOT protected by the Geneva Convetion. According to the Geneva Convention you have to fight under a flag and be in uniform to be protected. None of these morons qualify for either. That is why it is so dangerous to be a spy. You get zero protection. You do whatever you have to do to save American lives. I don't care if you kill a thousand terrorists to save one American. It is 100% worth it. (Observing that every time I read a post beginning with the words "These people" (or "These guys") it causes me to form an undesirable conclusion concerning the poster.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Basically like most Americans you believe American life supersedes all others.:twitch: Absolutely, especially when innocent Americans are losing their lives in the name of Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Basically like most Americans you believe American life supersedes all others.:twitch: So when you're at war, DON"T look out for #1? I'm now truly convinced that the current generation would've lost WW2 had they been in charge. Gotta be nice to the Nazi's...they have feelings too ya know...... I could see MSNBC and CNN calling for George Patton's court marshal and demand he be hanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (Observing that every time I read a post beginning with the words "These people" (or "These guys") it causes me to form an undesirable conclusion concerning the poster.) Well lets see Larry, my guess is by looking at his name he has probably served in the military and seen some action and dealt with "these people" first hand. I am sure an elite super smart poster like yourself probably draws a more elaborate negative picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 So when you're at war, DON"T look out for #1?I'm now truly convinced that the current generation would've lost WW2 had they been in charge. Gotta be nice to the Nazi's...they have feelings too ya know...... I could see MSNBC and CNN calling for George Patton's court marshal and demand he be hanged. That's a bit of a stretch considering the Nazi's took over all of Europe and North Africa. Then Invaded Russia and Bombed the hell out of the English. Last time I checked there was no great war machine knocking on our door. EDIT: Wasn't Patton reprimanded for slapping a soldier? Plus it's not a matter of being "Nice", it's a matter of getting credible intel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Well lets see Larry, my guess is by looking at his name he has probably served in the military and seen some action and dealt with "these people" first hand. I am sure an elite super smart poster like yourself probably draws a more elaborate negative picture. Actually, I wasn't drawing any conclusions from his user name. (Those being simply made up by the poster.) Although now that you point it out, I do recall thinking a few days ago that every single person I know who makes a habit of wrapping himself in the flag of his military service, has been an a-hole. (Not directing that judgment at you, since I'm not aware of you doing that. Nor at this person, because I haven't noticed him enough to have any opinion at all about him. Simply reflecting on others, who do exhibit that behavior.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.