FOX SPORTS: Schein's Nine: Don't blow it in draft (Redskins related)

[Rocky52Mc]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9485204/Schein%27s-Nine:-Don%27t-blow-it-in-draft?MSNHPHMA

"4. Washington can't trade up for Mark Sanchez, but the Jets can

The hot rumor is Dan Snyder is smitten over the USC star. I like Sanchez a lot. He's smart, accurate and oozes leadership. But the Redskins don't have many picks and actually have a good quarterback in Jason Campbell. Don't you want to see what he can do in Year 2 in Jim Zorn's system?

If Sanchez falls to the Jags pick at No. 8, Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum should call Jacksonville and give up the 17th pick and his second rounder to get the quarterback who will thrive in his marketplace.

I like Kellen Clemens, but you can't compare the experience, talent and upside between Clemens and Campbell.

Sanchez works for the Jets, not for the Skins."

Sometimes it's just better to hear experts voice on the situation instead of an army of arm-chair QB's. Although I don't always agree with the man's picks on Sunday, he has a point. It's also note worthy that Sanchez was told by Snyder that he would have to beat out the competition at camp if he's drafted. Even if we do grab him, I doubt he starts for us, it's more smart if he actually sits. :logo:

Most of the time, the BEST advice you can ever receive, is from somebody who's not in your relationship.

[Hitman#21]

Not the biggest Schein fan, but ill telll you this much the jets need more than just a QB.

[Passizle]

I agree with this OP. While Sanchez is an intriguing (sp) prospect, he will be a year behind Colt in the learning curve. Why bother at this point. We already have a pretty good QB, a very talented "?" in the wings... why bring in another unproven QB when there are other glaring (and I cant stress that word enough) holes on the team.

[skinsdude]

Adam Schein is a huge Giants fan and Redskin hater. He is trying to sabotage our efforts. :saber:

[Skinsfor4]

Dan Snyder wont be outbid again on a QB he covets.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sometimes it's just better to hear experts voice on the situation instead of an army of arm-chair QB's....Most of the time, the BEST advice you can ever receive, is from somebody who's not in your relationship.

I listen to Sirrius football talk radio frequently, actually doing it right now and am listening to Schein and heard him elaborate about why he thinks it would be a mistake to draft Sanchez for the Skins -- for him its simply that he likes Jason Campbell.

What makes Schein an expert though on this subject? Other talking football heads like Mayock, Kiper, Phil Simms, etc --all of whom tout Sanchez highly and I have yet to hear anyone of them say the Skins are nuts to pursue Sanchez becuase Campbell is the real goods.

I'd suspect Jim Zorn would know more about QB's including the ins and outs of Campbell's potential than Schein.

[dcthug]

I must admit I have fell out of fan love with Jason. I do like the kid, but I really want to see what CB can do. i believe he is more of a natural leader than Jason. I also think he would prove to be a solid qb if given the chance. If the team drafts Sanchez, so be it, but I would much rather see a LB or DE with the 1st pick.

[JetSkins]

makes sense what he's saying

[Chump Bailey]

What makes Schein an expert though on this subject? Other talking football heads like Mayock, Kiper, Phil Simms, etc --all of whom tout Sanchez highly and I have yet to hear anyone of them say the Skins are nuts to pursue Sanchez becuase Campbell is the real goods.

I'd suspect Jim Zorn would know more about QB's including the ins and outs of Campbell's potential than Schein.

Pretty much...

[Rocky52Mc]

I listen to Sirrius football talk radio frequently, actually doing it right now and am listening to Schein and heard him elaborate about why he thinks it would be a mistake to draft Sanchez for the Skins -- for him its simply that he likes Jason Campbell.

What makes Schein an expert though on this subject? Other talking football heads like Mayock, Kiper, Phil Simms, etc --all of whom tout Sanchez highly and I have yet to hear anyone of them say the Skins are nuts to pursue Sanchez becuase Campbell is the real goods.

I'd suspect Jim Zorn would know more about QB's including the ins and outs of Campbell's potential than Schein.

Well, please quote me again and find where I wrote "Adam Schein is an offensive coordinator for the Redskins"

My input was, his word is most likely more valuable then any talking head around here, especially when we get all civil-warish.

I don't think anyone's saying the Redskins are stupid because of Campbell. I'm sure a lot of people will brush Campbell off because it's Snyder we're dealing with and 3 weeks ago he had no problem dealing him according to many reports. The point is, people think we get Sanchez, because we get guys like Haynesworth. Adam isn't saying that we're stupid for trying to get him, we just can't afford it. We have other needs.

Why spend all the money to fix the 2nd bathroom of the house when you're missing a roof to protect you from the rain?

Then again, I'm pretty sure Jim Zorn has little to NO options when it comes to this years draft. I'm sure Daniel Snyder and Vinny have that job covered. Especially when you consider all the rumors that we have a new HC next year. Zorn accepted this job with less roles in the player personal department.

[celts32]

Schein is the biggest tool in the box!

[scuppajones]

I am really looking forward to Monday, when we can do away with all this draft speculation and start worrying about the players we have.

[Skinsinparadise]

Well, please quote me again and find where I wrote "Adam Schein is an offensive coordinator for the Redskins"

My input was, his word is most likely more valuable then any talking head around here, especially when we get all civil-warish.

Didn't say you did, but if your point is which became clearer to me in your last post -- that Schein knows more about football than we do on the board -- yeah I'd probably go with that but am putting this into context:

Does Mike Mayock know more than us? Kiper? Phil Simms know something about QB's? The guy who does the draft reporting for scout.com? What does Schein have over them?

All these guys like Schein don't work for the Redskins and think Sanchez is the best QB in the draft (except for Kiper who thinks Stafford is but he thinks Sanchez is one of the top 5 players in the whole draft). Mayock said he's the safest QB pick in the draft and doesn't think there is much bust potential there, his colleage Charles Davis agrees with him.

Pretty much every draft magazine I have touts Sanchez a lot -- says he's very pro ready, smart, quick release, etc. Granted they don't talk about Sanchez versus Campbell. Kiper did a little yesterday saying that Sanchez has leadership qualities that the Skins are hoping to get out of Campbell.

Doesn't make this all true and validate making the move. None of these talking head guys should know as much as the teams that are doing the actual scouting. My only point really (and no offense implied) is IMO Schein speaking about this doesn't represent a definitive point of view on this subject.

I don't think anyone's saying the Redskins are stupid because of Campbell. I'm sure a lot of people will brush Campbell off because it's Snyder we're dealing with and 3 weeks ago he had no problem dealing him according to many reports.

Not that long ago they were hot and heavy for Cutler and I recall at least in one of those articles back then, Sanchez was mentioned as an option. The way they coveted Cutler, it doesn't strike me shocking to find out that they 3 weeks later still aren't sold on Campbell and want to look at other options.

The point is, people think we get Sanchez, because we get guys like Haynesworth. Adam isn't saying that we're stupid for trying to get him, we just can't afford it. We have other needs.

Today on the radio Schein's main point was Campbell is likely the real goods, so why not mess with positions that you really need. Conversely, the Jets have other needs too but they really need a QB becuase their options at QB aren't good. Schein's argument centered on Campbell.

Why spend all the money to fix the 2nd bathroom of the house when you're missing a roof to protect you from the rain?

Basically we need a RT. I would argue that the RT is the 2nd bathroom of the house, and your QB is the roof. And unless we trade all our picks, why will it be impossible to fill that position? Or maybe they think Oher is gone at 13 or they aren't sold on him and think 13 is a reach for Britton? There would be I presume a lot of factors that would influence this decision.

Then again, I'm pretty sure Jim Zorn has little to NO options when it comes to this years draft. I'm sure Daniel Snyder and Vinny have that job covered. Especially when you consider all the rumors that we have a new HC next year. Zorn accepted this job with less roles in the player personal department.

So you think Zorn has little to no say in this? I doubt he simply ran into Snyder and Sanchez by accident at the restaurant meeting last weekend and thanks to serendipity joined their table. His main pedegree when they hired him was his QB expertise. Even if they aren't sure about him as a HC, why would they ignore the advice from a long time QB and QB coach? And what evidence do we have that Zorn isn't involved --when all evidence exposed so far about the Sanchez dealings points the other way?

[usapatriot]

I must admit I have fell out of fan love with Jason. I do like the kid, but I really want to see what CB can do. i believe he is more of a natural leader than Jason. I also think he would prove to be a solid qb if given the chance. If the team drafts Sanchez, so be it, but I would much rather see a LB or DE with the 1st pick.

Couldn't agree with you more. I much rather see CB. As long as JC is on the roster and JZ is the coach JC will start. Zorn seems to love the guy so I think we're stuck with him this year.

[Rocky52Mc]

Didn't say you did, but if your point is which became clearer to me in your last post -- that Schein knows more about football than we do on the board -- yeah I'd probably go with that but am putting this into context:

Does Mike Mayock know more than us? Kiper? Phil Simms know something about QB's? The guy who does the draft reporting for scout.com? What does Schein have over them?

All these guys like Schein don't work for the Redskins and think Sanchez is the best QB in the draft (except for Kiper who thinks Stafford is but he thinks Sanchez is one of the top 5 players in the whole draft). Mayock said he's the safest QB pick in the draft and doesn't think there is much bust potential there, his colleage Charles Davis agrees with him.

Pretty much every draft magazine I have touts Sanchez a lot -- says he's very pro ready, smart, quick release, etc. Granted they don't talk about Sanchez versus Campbell. Kiper did a little yesterday saying that Sanchez has leadership qualities that the Skins are hoping to get out of Campbell.

Doesn't make this all true and validate making the move. None of these talking head guys should know as much as the teams that are doing the actual scouting. My only point really (and no offense implied) is IMO Schein speaking about this doesn't represent a definitive point of view on this subject.

Not that long ago they were hot and heavy for Cutler and I recall at least in one of those articles back then, Sanchez was mentioned as an option. The way they coveted Cutler, it doesn't strike me shocking to find out that they 3 weeks later still aren't sold on Campbell and want to look at other options.

Today on the radio Schein's main point was Campbell is likely the real goods, so why not mess with positions that you really need. Conversely, the Jets have other needs too but they really need a QB becuase their options at QB aren't good. Schein's argument centered on Campbell.

Basically we need a RT. I would argue that the RT is the 2nd bathroom of the house, and your QB is the roof. And unless we trade all our picks, why will it be impossible to fill that position? O maybe they think Oher is gone at 13 or they aren't sold on him and think 13 is a reach for Britton? There would be I presume a lot of factors that would influence this decision.

So you think Zorn has little to no say in this? I doubt he simply ran into Snyder and Sanchez by accident at the restaurant meeting last weekend and thanks to serendipity joined their table. His main pedegree when they hired him was his QB expertise. Even if they aren't sure about him as a HC, why would they ignore the advice from a long time QB and QB coach? And what evidence do we have that Zorn isn't involved --when all evidence exposed so far about the Sanchez dealings points the other way?

I agree with a lot of your points and see where you are coming from. Schein may talk about a lot of things so in a sense, he's not particularly glued in to one certain aspect of football except for maybe the drama,news,and hot stuff of the day/week. But then again, that can relate to my first post where I said, most of the time the best advice comes from someone not in the relationship.

While I agree that Sanchez doesn't look like a great deal of bust material and that he's a complete stud. It will take a LOT to land this man.

The roof, (the protection) is our offensive line. Where we should be focusing here. Without that protection, the bathroom would be kind of useless anyways. You can just go piddle somewhere around the house, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyways.

The 2nd bathroom, is the crop of bathrooms that we already have that can get the job done. Once we repair the roof, we can begin to focus on that bathroom later on. (This is fun)

Yes, we were hot onto Cutlers neck, but I believe this is also pure ammunition for anyone to believe we will make the biggest splash as possible whenever. Whether people think it's FA, training camp trade, pre-season, the draft, signing a FA who was cut in the season, or by the trade deadline, simply because we have an over-aggressive owner.

[The Sisko]

Well, please quote me again and find where I wrote "Adam Schein is an offensive coordinator for the Redskins"

My input was, his word is most likely more valuable then any talking head around here, especially when we get all civil-warish.

I don't think anyone's saying the Redskins are stupid because of Campbell. I'm sure a lot of people will brush Campbell off because it's Snyder we're dealing with and 3 weeks ago he had no problem dealing him according to many reports. The point is, people think we get Sanchez, because we get guys like Haynesworth. Adam isn't saying that we're stupid for trying to get him, we just can't afford it. We have other needs.

Why spend all the money to fix the 2nd bathroom of the house when you're missing a roof to protect you from the rain?

QFT.

Why get another QB when you aren't 100% sure your starter won't pan out, you're 100% uncertain about the young guy behind him and you're equally certain that you do need a replacement at RT? But...that's just the way we do things around here. :doh:

[Gregpeck99]

Couldn't agree with you more. I much rather see CB. As long as JC is on the roster and JZ is the coach JC will start. Zorn seems to love the guy so I think we're stuck with him this year.

Zorn is on board with Sanchez for sure, but his hands may be tied. Campbell must be outed if we want to see CB sooner rather than later. If Sanchez helps get Campbell on the bus ... I'm all for it. It would be fun to have Colt and the Trojan become the two-FACES of the Skins. If that were the case ... I wouldn't even mind if the B&G lost a few games early on as long we score more than 20 points per. And if that were to happen .... with the Skins defense ... they will be in the hunt at last.

[Skinsinparadise]

The roof, (the protection) is our offensive line. Where we should be focusing here. Without that protection, the bathroom would be kind of useless anyways. You can just go piddle somewhere around the house, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyways.

The 2nd bathroom, is the crop of bathrooms that we already have that can get the job done. Once we repair the roof, we can begin to focus on that bathroom later on. (This is fun)

I hear you, I get the protection analogy of the roof but I took it as what's more important a QB or a RT? To me a QB isn't a fun/luxury pick and is much closer to being the be all and end all position than a RT.

Here's my take on the O line:

LT -- you got Chris Samuels, pro bowler? Needs to be replaced?

LG -- we have Dockery back, big bruising lineman, he should be at least all right

C -- Casey Rabach: Many say he's the most consistent lineman on the team. Personally am not in love with him but IMO he's at least all right

RG -- Randy Thomas, considered in the past the beast of the O line, played last season with a serious neck injury, still was an alternate pro-bowler

RT -- Jansen was OK in the beginning but fell apart in the 2nd half, Bugel imputed to him coming back from injury and he didn't have time to build stamina. Heyer looked to be so so at best.

RT looks to be the clear weakness. I wouldn't mind replacing Thomas and Rabach but I don't see why they desparetly need to do it now. And as for fixing that position, lets say they do trade for Sanchez, it really depends on what the deal is, if they keep their 3rd and lets say trade next years 1st. They have an opportunity to take a RT in the 3rd this year or in the 2nd next year.

Jansen in his hey day was good. He was a 2nd rounder. I don't think you need to find your RT in round 1. Finding an elite LT isn't easy but IMO finding a RT is far from mission impossible whether its this year or next. Plus next year you got FA, too.

I am on board with your point about the O line is important but if they think Sanchez is a rock star quality QB IMO it supersedes finding a RT with their first rounder this season. It's not as if I think they are one RT away from making the Superbowl this season, I can wait for next season to address that position, worse case sceanrio.

Another way to make the point is good RT's don't seem that hard to find in comparison to franchise QB's. If you look at this draft some of the hot RT prospects like Loadholt, Meredith, etc are projected 2nd rounders.

[Englands Team]

This is a really tough one. Jason Campbell is not the answer with this Offensive line. Do we go for a tackle that can start from day one and improve the line giving Campbell more time.

Or do we take the Steelers option and have a Franchise player back there who can make the plays with a minimal amount of time.

Or do we take one of the top defensive ends and make our defence dominant so we only need to drive twenty yards for a FG and fifty for a TD.

I don't know and I don't suppose anyone will know for sure until 2012 if we made the right choice.

[captain_obvious]

Considering the yawning holes at other positions, especially the lines, I hope we pass on Mr. Sanchez.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is a really tough one. Jason Campbell is not the answer with this Offensive line. Do we go for a tackle that can start from day one and improve the line giving Campbell more time.

Or do we take the Steelers option and have a Franchise player back there who can make the plays with a minimal amount of time.

Or do we take one of the top defensive ends and make our defence dominant so we only need to drive twenty yards for a FG and fifty for a TD.

I don't know and I don't suppose anyone will know for sure until 2012 if we made the right choice.

Where I am coming from is unless we are thinking Superbowl now in this season, why not approach this draft as if this isn't a one time deal and represents the last chance for them to take care of the team's needs -- what about next draft?, plus you are likely going to have FA in an uncapped year next season -- Snyder isn't afraid to use his wallet.

[The Sisko]

I hear you, I get the protection analogy of the roof but I took it as what's more important a QB or a RT? To me a QB isn't a fun/luxury pick and is much closer to being the be all and end all position than a RT....

...Another way to make the point is good RT's don't seem that hard to find in comparison to franchise QB's. If you look at this draft some of the hot RT prospects like Loadholt, Meredith, etc are projected 2nd rounders.

A few points. First, Sanchez does have significant bust potential. Does the name "Akili Smith" ring a bell for you? IIRC Football Outsiders did an analysis that showed the two variables that are most predictive of NFL success for college QBs was the number of games started and completion pct. I think Sanchez fails on both those counts. Interestingly, ASF pointed this out a few years ago about JC and predicted that he'd be average at best. So far, JC has lived up to that prediction.

Second, ideally what we're looking for is a RT that we can move to LT temporarily if Samuels gets hurt or permanently when Samuels' play declines. You probably aren't going to find that guy late in the draft. Heck, even Jansen was taken at the top of the 2nd round.

Finally, don't sleep on the importance of RT. The Gnats showed against the Patsies how having two good DEs can stop a superior passing game in it's tracks. Not only do we play the Gnats twice a season but this is a copycat league so expect to see more of that type of pass rush. That points to increased importance of premier RTs.

[Skinsinparadise]

A few points. First, Sanchez does have significant bust potential. Does the name "Akili Smith" ring a bell for you? IIRC Football Outsiders did an analysis that showed the two variables that are most predictive of NFL success for college QBs was the number of games started and completion pct. I think Sanchez fails on both those counts. .

Really 65.8% completion, 3207 yards, 34 touchdowns, 164 QB rating for the season computes to failing statistics? (Edit: if you read at the bottom of my post, I spell out that Peyton Manning's completion rate in college was lower than Sanchez's #'s.)

And if so how come none of the other NFL draft geeks are tearing apart Sanchez's stats? And how come the Redskins and the draft geeks aren't aware that there is a specific analysis that predicts success as QB or if they are why are they ignoring it?

A lot of people tout how Belichick found Brady in the 6th round but I was watching a show last night where Belichick said it wasn't him but their QB coach.

We have arguably one of the best QB coaches in the NFL who happened to play the position -- am trusting he would know a thing or two about scouting Sanchez and for that matter know the weaknesses and strengths of Campbell and how protection play into it.

I am assuming Zorn isn't lost about how to factor in everything when it comes to making a decision here. I really doubt we are bringing up observations that haven't crossed his mind.

Second, ideally what we're looking for is a RT that we can move to LT temporarily if Samuels gets hurt or permanently when Samuels' play declines. You probably aren't going to find that guy late in the draft. Heck, even Jansen was taken at the top of the 2nd round.

I didn't say late in the draft, I specifically said a 2nd or 3rd rounder

Finally, don't sleep on the importance of RT. The Gnats showed against the Patsies how having two good DEs can stop a superior passing game in it's tracks. Not only do we play the Gnats twice a season but this is a copycat league so expect to see more of that type of pass rush. That points to increased importance of premier RTs.

Since I pointed out that's the position that needs fixing, how am I sleeping on it? If you read my post closely I said that its tougher to find a franchise QB than a RT.

Edit: I just looked up Peyon Mannings statistics, you said completion percentage is one of two variables in success and failure. OK well Peyton Manning's completion percentage in his last college season was 60.37, and never in his college career matched Sanchez's completion rate as a starter.

[Ingtar]

Everybody is going to have their own opinion on this, whether they are a Skins fan or not. I have heard mixed reviews from a lot of sources on JC, just as I have heard praise and optimism.

The Skins will take whoever we take. I plan to just enjoy the ride this weekend. It should be interesting!

[Going Commando]

Schein an expert? Ha! He's and idiot and consequently, one of the most personally unpleasant people I've ever seen on TV. Whenever he talks it chills a little bit of the warmth in my heart and replaces it with the urge to do murder.