SIXX99 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Did anyone see Total Access(or Path to the Draft) last night where they rated the NFC East drafts of the last five years??Giants - A , 19 starters Eagles- B, 14 Cowboys- A, 17 Skins- D, 9 Then they went on to joke on how we always trade our picks and how we had 3 2nd rounders last year who did nothing for us. Ofcourse the Giants are first.... :gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why is it so hard to admit that the Skins are not very good drafters? Do you guys take it personally, or are you just not able to look at this objectively and determine what poor results are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 so you can say we draft well.....when we have picks. fine. we drafted guys like taylor, cooley, mcintosh, dockery, rogers, etc. i think most people are just pissed at the fact that we trade so many picks away. couldnt you assume, if were so good at drafting, we'd.....use the draft more often? why waste time trading 3rds and 4ths for pete kendall, brandon lloyd, duckett, etc, when we could be spending those picks on youth? i know im arguing with the top flight apologists for the team here, but honestly, do some of you guys agree with how we just give the picks away and dont get much in return? i personally would rather us fail in the draft then fail with guys who succeeded with other teams. and on a side note, if our 2008 draft doesnt pan out aside from horton, our front office sucks....badly. Actually that's why I figure our pro-player scouting is what's killing us. I'm now convinced, after seeing the numbers, that our college scouting is good, but our FO is constantly convinced that the picks aren't worth as much as "fill in the name" who they're going to trade for. I think if we were better with pro scouting, than we would be better with our trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why is it so hard to admit that the Skins are not very good drafters?Do you guys take it personally, or are you just not able to look at this objectively and determine what poor results are? Why is it so hard to look at the facts and see the numbers actually say the Redskins have higher than average success with the draft, they just don't have lots of picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHendrix Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Who cares what the jokers on TA say? I find their analysis to be sub-par to ESPN's and to what is to found here on ES. Their breaking news is pretty good, but Shefter is no more informed than, say, Clayton or Mortensen. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 We're not asking for respect. We're asking for them to tell the truth, stop falsifying our FO's actions, and to NOT laugh or roll their eyes unless they do so to every other team that has performed at the same level or worse than us. There is certainly shoddy journalism going on here at best, and a blind hatred of our FO at worse. I'm leaning towards the former, but who knows? our FO blows dude, why don't you stop falsifying our FO's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Run for the hills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haynesworth_Mancrush Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 WE might be the ones laughing all the way to the Superbowl this year!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 WE might be the ones laughing all the way to the Superbowl this year!! if our offense looks anything like it did last year, we'll be going to the superbowl to watch someone else compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why is it so hard to look at the facts and see the numbers actually say the Redskins have higher than average success with the draft, they just don't have lots of picks? The Skins treat the draft like a red-headed stepchild; no respect. They give up picks for "also rans" and "has beens" like jason taylor, brandon lloyd, and pete kendall. They have such little respect for the draft, that they are without picks from players that are no longer on the team. If you want to call that success, then have at it, but don't get mad when the rest of the world looks at that and says "FAIL" because in reality it's poor management of draft picks, and thus poor management of the actual draft. Alert me when the Skins VALUE their draft picks and DON'T look to give up multiple ones on every shiny player that wants to be traded, or comes available to trade. Let me know when the Skins trade an aging vet for a draft pick or two, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haynesworth_Mancrush Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 if our offense looks anything like it did last year, we'll be going to the superbowl to watch someone else compete. If our offense starts out like it finished last year, we're gonna see another QB at the helm named Colt Brennan. But with the strength of our schedule, and the offseason acquisitions we have made, I see us going 10-6 with a shot at a playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 so you can say we draft well.....when we have picks. fine. we drafted guys like taylor, cooley, mcintosh, dockery, rogers, etc. Great, glad you finally came to your senses. But, wait... i think most people are just pissed at the fact that we trade so many picks away. couldnt you assume, if were so good at drafting, we'd.....use the draft more often? why waste time trading 3rds and 4ths for pete kendall, brandon lloyd, duckett, etc, when we could be spending those picks on youth? i know im arguing with the top flight apologists for the team here, but honestly, do some of you guys agree with how we just give the picks away and dont get much in return? Of course, you couldn't just leave it at the fact that you were wrong about our ability to draft, so you had to insult those of us who've been saying that all along. Top flight apologists, huh? How do you explain this, then? Sorry, no they're not. All evidence shows that they're above average at scouting. They're biggest problem is letting go of those picks too easily, although it's not as bad as everyone makes it seem. Or as you would like to propagate with your sig. I know all the cool boys are walking around with their "I hate Vinny/Danny" jackets on. I know who you're referring to as "top flight apologists", but you're wrong my man. I'm thinking bubba, Califan, myself and elkabong here. How do you then explain this too? 4 of the last 5 years were run by Gibbs. He values vets more than rookies. His strategy got him just as much success as the Cowboys under the same timeframe.And joking about a rookie after just one year is stupid. Mario Williams is a perfect example, who has made many an impateient person eat crow. It is not a wise thing, us trading away so many draft picks. However, it is pretty shoddy reporting that they list the number of starters, and mention how we trade away picks, but they don't look at how many picks we had in that timeframe to see how often we drafted starters. Another article brought it up, and the other 3 are in the 50's, we were at 34. Their slant tries to make it look like bad drafting, when really it's been lack of picks. Califan then quotes elkabong's statement at the end there and says: That's exactly what I was thinking. And I'm sure bubba feels the same way about the ease in which we give draft picks away (though, once again, that problem has been greatly exaggerated by the negative types around here like BLC). So, how is it that we're top flight apologists for the team, again? Where did we say that having a lack of picks was a good thing? Not only that, but we made it painfully clear that we'd wish they didn't make the mistakes they made in giving away some of those draft picks. The big question really is this; is your will strong enough to put your ego aside and admit you were totally wrong here? and on a side note, if our 2008 draft doesnt pan out aside from horton, our front office sucks....badly. That's called a big "if". We're not dealing in the hypothetical, but thanks for your top flight negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 our FO blows dude, why don't you stop falsifying our FO's actions. why don't you stop exaggerating how bad the FO really is? perception vs reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 top flight apologists :hysterical::hysterical: when they start the childish labeling, in a lame attempt to discredit you, and your opinion without proving anything..... it's the same as admitting defeat. If they could argue against you logically and intelligently they wouldn't need to resort to such tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I'm sure bubba feels the same way about the ease in which we give draft picks away I never have said the FO was perfect or without flaws.... just that the perception of being inept is greatly exaggerated, and the reality is if you look at their NFC East peers, you can see our FO is not the only one who makes mistakes.... except they aren't ridiculed or laughed at by the media. Also how you judge success verses failure simply by counting starters drafted solely is hardly a logical scale. Trading picks is not always a wise move, except when you factoring in the value of the player you received in return. George Allen is revered, and he rarely drafted players, same with Gibbs, Beathered era.... most of our greatest players were never drafted by the Redskins. Despite many top draft picks, I would say the Skins 3 titles, 5 SB appearances, numerous division titles and playoff wins... the Skins FO in the 70's and 80's were successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Great, glad you finally came to your senses. But, wait... came to my senses that i admitted weve made some good picks? anyone claiming we havent is nuts, ive never said that ever, so please dont put words in my mouth. weve hit on a decent number of picks in the early rounds. and i think youre looking at this the wrong way. the draft is an event, which we do not handle well. its one entity, and youre splitting it into sections so you can alleviate the team for being stupid in certain areas. so instead of saying "the redskins do not handle the draft well" you say "the redskins draft very well......when they have draft picks". when the media makes fun of us, its because of how we handle the draft as a whole. you can find the silver lining in anything (which i think some of you do) if you look hard enough, so you bring up certain guys that we hit on and how good they turned out. but its much more than just some of the 1st rounders we hit on. its the entire future of our team and how its built, and the way we handle it is a huge detriment to the orginization. when we trade picks away, it doesnt work out well most of the time. i brought up 4 guys that failed, i didnt even mention brunell who had 1 good year here, and i didnt even mention all the extra draft picks we gave up just in order to draft guys. its bad team management, and it sets back our youth movement. for example, all the guys clamouring for oline in the draft who feel campbell is the guy. how many olineman could we have drafted if we hadnt made bonehead draft pick trades for guys like duckett/lloyd/brunell/jtaylor? even kendall, i mean thats multiple 3rds and 4th, where dock and cooley were found, that are wasted and gone. this is poor management no matter how you look at it. our front office's poor draft management is why were so old at the oline position. and elkabongs point about gibbs being in charge, thats bunk. you cannot prove that gibbs was making those moves and vinny wasnt, and again, this is another area where i feel the "apologist" tag applies. trying to claim that vinny was in charge of nothing when gibbs was here, and acting like vinny is all the sudden a rookie at this, claiming 08 was his first draft, just alleviates his poor management again and passes the buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Vinny is far from a rookie. Anyone who thinks that needs a head examination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Despite many top draft picks, I would say the Skins 3 titles, 5 SB appearances, numerous division titles and playoff wins... the Skins FO in the 70's and 80's were successful and please correct me if im wrong, but the majority of the redskins big contributors were all drafted by us. monk, green, manley, mann, mark may, russ grimm, monte coleman, don warren, daryl grant, bostic and jacoby were UDFA if im not mistaken. i mean look at that list, all draft picks, and all a huge part of how we became that dynasty we were. even theismann had never played for another team before he came to the skins. i always think its odd when i hear that the skins ignored the draft back in the day and built the team with FAs, then i look at all the incredible draft picks we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Vinny is far from a rookie. Anyone who thinks that needs a head examination. exactly. ive definitely seen a few people try and claim that vinny wasnt in charge of all the previous ones, which is not only unprovable, but completely inprobable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROSCOUT Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Did anyone see Total Access(or Path to the Draft) last night where they rated the NFC East drafts of the last five years??Giants - A , 19 starters Eagles- B, 14 Cowboys- A, 17 Skins- D, 9 Then they went on to joke on how we always trade our picks and how we had 3 2nd rounders last year who did nothing for us. The Skins front office is inept. Nobody including Skins fans will argue with that. So whats their point. The Giants did not draft Burress but they can't seem to get to a Superbowl without him. Its okay to sign free agents, and win with them. Although it still doesn't make our front office smart because they were born stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCDiesel44 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 We deserve to get laughed at when we trade our draft picks away for guys in their 30's. Hopefully this is nothing more than our long forgotten past and it won't come back. Our team's follies have nothing more to do with anything than our FRONT OFFICE. I would much rather have Rich Eisen and Jamie Dukes running our team rather than the clowns we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 The Redskins for the last 35yrs have traded away draft picks for free agents.. ITS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY!!!George Allen, Joe Gibbs/ Bobby Bethard/ Charlie Casserley, and now Snyder and friends We have 5 SB appearances and 3 Championships to show for it! Seems like a good invesment to me. George Allen, Joe Gibbs/ Bobby Bethard/ Charlie Casserley, and now Snyder and friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 We deserve to get laughed at when we trade our draft picks away for guys in their 30's. Hopefully this is nothing more than our long forgotten past and it won't come back. Our team's follies have nothing more to do with anything than our FRONT OFFICE. I would much rather have Rich Eisen and Jamie Dukes running our team rather than the clowns we have right now. I nominate Solly Wilcoxx ... smart as a whip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 and please correct me if im wrong, but the majority of the redskins big contributors were all drafted by us.monk, green, manley, mann, mark may, russ grimm, monte coleman, don warren, daryl grant, bostic and jacoby were UDFA if im not mistaken. i mean look at that list, all draft picks, and all a huge part of how we became that dynasty we were. even theismann had never played for another team before he came to the skins. i always think its odd when i hear that the skins ignored the draft back in the day and built the team with FAs, then i look at all the incredible draft picks we had. Yes they were drafted but look how many draft picks we had in those drafts and where most of them were drafted. We just had great talent scouts and a HOF coach on our side. We barely had draft picks in the 70's 80's or 90's. In fact we had more in the 90's and sucked worse than any other decade in the last 30yrs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 ...Funny and completely appropriate picture after reading the title of the thread... I was wondering how long it would take for a picture of this ilk to come up once I opened up this thread. Apparently, not very long. Good pull Victory, good pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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