Oher's Intelligence

[NewCliche21]

Gary Clark had family problems growing up?

Blah, I don't want to get into this with you again.

[goldenster95]

Football ain't rocket surgery

Football ain't brain science either.

[RedSunday]

It's not a question of "intelligence", it's how he needs to be taught plays. He just can't grasp a playbook, he needs to be walked thru everything visually. After 4 years of that kind of personal tutoring on plays and schemes at Miss, he still had trouble with his assignments. Translate that to how much more complex NFL schemes and adjustments are, and it's highly troubling. I understand people are intrigued by his story and his upside, but just saying he's "smart enough" or pretending it's not a problem is naive.

.

This is all made up ,he learns plays like anyone else.

[Chump Bailey]

He's shown more intelligence than Andre Smith. I'd take the guy in a second.

[NewCliche21]

This is all made up ,he learns plays like anyone else.

It's all made up? What, you think that you can just say something and it's true?

I don't know crap about Oher, but what, exactly, do you know about the learning process, cognitive development and performance, or anything else pertaining to how one learns? I'm dying to know.

[SIXX99]

I think the criticism of him has been overblown and would be happy if we drafted him - but the fact that we haven't worked him out yet suggests Vinny isn't enthusiastic.

Vinny is too busy eyeballing Sanchez to look at problem areas....:doh:

[Pimpey42000]

I think a combination of good judgement and a certain level of intelligence is probably a good suit for a OL to have.

[chiramu]

Football ain't rocket surgery, he'll do just fine.

That's really good news. Doing surgery on a rocket might tend to shorten careers. :hysterical:

[#98QBKiller]

Well, "his problems can be fixed by coaching" is a line that can be used on a lot of prospects.

With Oher, we have bad technique + bad work ethic + trouble learning without extra personal tutoring. That adds up to a big risk, any way you cut it.

His work ethic and technique can't be that bad if he's a top four prospect in the country for his position (arguably the most important on the offensive line).

[flock53]

Football ain't rocket surgery, he'll do just fine.

What the hell is rocket surgery?

[Rudechain]

Well, "his problems can be fixed by coaching" is a line that can be used on a lot of prospects.

With Oher, we have bad technique + bad work ethic + trouble learning without extra personal tutoring. That adds up to a big risk, any way you cut it.

You mean for a guy that was basically on his own for 16 years of his life, yet he managed to make the dean's list at Ole Miss?

A guy who managed to persevere against the toughest of odds and got himself into Ole Miss. That's impressive work ethic, a classic example of someone deciding they wanted something better in life and worked hard.

They have not finished the book on Oher and dont' be suprised if he ends up a quality tackle in the NFL.

I have to wonder where you get this bad work ethic thing as well as bad technique.

The guy started 47 consecutive games at Ole Miss. Was all American his last two seasons playing there, and All SEC honors in his final three years. ( seems to me like he improved from his freshman year onward to garner those types of awards.)

Alabama offensive tackle Andre Smith already cost himself a ton of money by showing up at the Combine overweight and out of shape. His Wonderlic score of 17 didn't help him. Ole Miss lineman Michael Oher had a 19.

Not ragging you Rufus, but I just can't understand where you come up with bad technique and bad work ethic.

Oh, and the kid's intelligence has gotten better too. His IQ was measured at 80 before attending Briarcrest. Of course he was living with a drug addicted mother and six siblings. Sometimes living out of a car. After he had been at Briarcrest for a while, his IQ was measured at 100 to 110. ( the average IQ is 100)

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20090220_Eagles_-_Potential_Eagles__prospect_Oher_hopes_to_turn_page_after_best-seller_on_his_life_story.html

The above link also mentions that Oher made the Dean's list his sophmore year at Ole Miss. I can't believe a guy that needs personal tutoring would end up with an intelligence quotient score of average.

[flock53]

How does one manage a 0.6? Wow.

Gym class.

[mbws]

We don't know his life story.

There are many, many more reasons for having a **** GPA than being stupid. If he were THAT lacking in intelligence, then he would not have graduated high school, let alone go to college. Promise.

His Life Story is right here. It's Pretty long, so pack a lunch and read it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/magazine/24football.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Michael%20Oher&st=cse

[AAARedskin]

I do not want the Skins to draft this guy based on what I've read and heard about him. His potential to be a BUST seems to be just as great as him being a good lineman.....I'd much rather roll the dice with the big fella from Alabama.

[Oldskool]

He's a nice story but I'd rather have a lineman that doesn't have developmental issues in his past, especially one that everyone is projecting to move to LOT when Samuels retires.

As many have said, this team cannot afford to screw the pooch on this pick and Oher seems to fit that bill.

[RocketCitySkins]

I still don't think Oher has developmental issues as much as he had opportunity issues. Once in an enviroment to learn, he developed quickly enough to add over 20 points to his IQ.

I just got to the part of the book where Oher plays in the Army All American Bowl his senior year in high school. The team needed a center and Oher had never snapped a ball. But in one week he learned the plays and snap counts and played the position like he had played it all his life. :point2sky

[Oldskool]

I still don't think Oher has developmental issues as much as he had opportunity issues. Once in an enviroment to learn, he developed quickly enough to add over 20 points to his IQ.

I just got to the part of the book where Oher plays in the Army All American Bowl his senior year in high school. The team needed a center and Oher had never snapped a ball. But in one week he learned the plays and snap counts and played the position like he had played it all his life. :point2sky

The point is that his mental capacity is retarded (didn't say he WAS retarded) and is still a developmental player and person. Not something that makes me want to embrace him with open arms, throw millions at and blow a #13 pick on.

[RocketCitySkins]

The point is that his mental capacity is retarded (didn't say he WAS retarded) and is still a developmental player and person. Not something that makes me want to embrace him with open arms, throw millions at and blow a #13 pick on.

Not sure how you are separating the two but an IQ of 100 to 110 is NOT retarded in any capacity. Neither is a Wonderlic score of 19.

[Rudechain]

The point is that his mental capacity is retarded (didn't say he WAS retarded) and is still a developmental player and person. Not something that makes me want to embrace him with open arms, throw millions at and blow a #13 pick on.

His IQ measured between 100 and 110 after getting into a proper learning atmosphere. When he was living out of a car and moving from place to place while not attending school his IQ was measured at 80. ( average IQ is measured at 100)

The guy made the dean's list his sophmore year at Ole Miss.

And his memorization capacity before getting into Briarcrest astounded teachers and coaches.

Retarded development maybe, but from all I have seen, he has proven the ability to adapt and excel.

Started 47 consecutive games over his career ... Garnered All-America honors each of his last two seasons and All-SEC accolades in his final three; Was a First Team Freshman All-America and SEC All-Freshman choice in 2005 ... As a blocker, helped running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis top the 1,000-yard rushing mark in consecutive seasons ... 2008: A consensus first team All-America and All-SEC selection ... Earned Jacobs Blocking Trophy as the SEC’s best blocker from the league’s coaches ... One of three finalists for the Outland Trophy .... One of three finalists for the Conerly Trophy, given to Mississippi’s top collegiate player ... One of 12 semifinalists for the Rotary Lombardi Award ... Started every game at left tackle ... Helped the Rebels rank second in the SEC in rushing (186.5 ypg) and fourth in sacks allowed (1.54 pg) ... As a unit, did not allow a sack in three games ... Served as team captain ..

http://www.olemisssports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=12785&SPID=737&DB_OEM_ID=2600&ATCLID=542695

So here's a guy that raised his IQ by 20 points on a conservative estimate, and made the dean's list all the while playing against a stacked deck. I am sorry OS, but I can't agree with the statement that "his mental capacity is retarded".

IQ scores

130+ very superior intelligence (about 2.2% of the population)

120-129 superior intelligence ( about 6.7% of the population)

110-119 high average intelligence ( about 16.1% of the population)

90-109 average intelligence ( about 50% of the population)

80-89 Low average intelligence (about 16.1% of the population)

70-79 borderline intelligence (about 6.7% of the population)

below 70 extremely low intelligence ( about 2.2% of the population)

So given Oher's score of 80 (low average) before attending Briarcrest and 100-110 (average to high average) when graduating I just can't see how you make the statement that his mental capacity is retarded. Not to mention the Dean's list his sophmore year.

Please explain.

[Oldskool]

Rudechain, first and foremost the scale of an IQ test is unreliable at best when administered to an adult, no matter the age of the recipient. Something I heard over and over again as one of my best friends was in school for his Ph.D in Psychology.

His success story rising from the horrible hand that he was dealt is a great story, but this isn't the Hallmark Channel. It's the NFL.

All we can go on is the facts of his scouting report from NFL sources. Along with his defiencies in pass blocking, all of the scouting reports have his mental state, his mental toughness and personality as red flags.

Take for example his interview with the Seahawks.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/seahawks/2009/04/08/explanation_of.html

Now, saying the interview didn't go well isn't like saying there was an argument or a dispute or that there was any kind of conflict. I'd heard that Oher was very quiet -- which is consistent with his reputation -- and seemed a little bit defensive and or sullen.

...

And characterizing how an interview as "bad" based on information from scouts and draft analysts is probably risky, it would have been better of me to say that indications are Oher didn't floor the Seahawks during that combine interview. Hope that clarification helps.

This is a late 1st round prospect that the Skins hopefully pass on.

[RocketCitySkins]

All we can go on is the facts of his scouting report from NFL sources.

Well, that settles it, then. We all know how accurate these sources are. :doh:

They caused Marcus McNeil to drop to a second round pick. He proved them wrong by not giving up even one sack his first year in the NFL, making the Pro Bowl and then blocking his guy 98.5% his 2nd year. He was a steal in 2nd round. If Oher drops to late first round, he will also be a steal for the team who drafts him.

[Oldskool]

Well, that settles it, then. We all know how accurate these sources are. :doh:

They caused Marcus McNeil to drop to a second round pick. He proved them wrong by not giving up even one sack his first year in the NFL, making the Pro Bowl and then blocking his guy 98.5% his 2nd year. He was a steal in 2nd round. If Oher drops to late first round, he will also be a steal for the team who drafts him.

How often does that happen?

Yeah, thought so. Most scouting reports are correct, it's the ones that are wrong AND make a huge splash that get all the attention. There is a reason that NO draft guru has this kid as a 1st tier OT.

[Rudechain]

Rudechain, first and foremost the scale of an IQ test is unreliable at best when administered to an adult, no matter the age of the recipient. Something I heard over and over again as one of my best friends was in school for his Ph.D in Psychology.

His success story rising from the horrible hand that he was dealt is a great story, but this isn't the Hallmark Channel. It's the NFL.

All we can go on is the facts of his scouting report from NFL sources. Along with his defiencies in pass blocking, all of the scouting reports have his mental state, his mental toughness and personality as red flags.

Take for example his interview with the Seahawks.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/seahawks/2009/04/08/explanation_of.html

This is a late 1st round prospect that the Skins hopefully pass on.

The IQ test is subjective, and not as reliable when taken as an adult, but Briarcrest is the school he attended before attending Ole Miss. His score improved 20 points while in high school and not an adult. And he DID make the DEANS LIST HIS SOPHMORE YEAR AT OLE MISS. Not someone with a "retarded mental capacity" would seem to be able to accomplish.

As for his mental toughness, I have to disagree once again. He's been described as gentle and mild mannered, yet he won all kinds of awards.

If he was not either able to grasp the curriculum nor able to excel on the field why would he be the recipient of so many awards while at Ole Miss. ( remember that he really only started playing football his junior year of high school)

http://www.olemisssports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=12785&SPID=737&DB_OEM_ID=2600&ATCLID=542695

Oher struggled to graduate high school, but he has done well in college. He made the dean's list as a sophomore and is 18 credits short of graduating after switching his major from journalism to criminal justice.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090220/SPT0201/902200389/1066/SPT02

I am not saying he should be taken with the 13th pick, but late first round sounds about right. Where you and I differ, and I differ is your assertion of "retarded mental capacity" primarily.

[RocketCitySkins]

How often does that happen?

Yeah, thought so. Most scouting reports are correct, it's the ones that are wrong AND make a huge splash that get all the attention. There is a reason that NO draft guru has this kid as a 1st tier OT.

Not sure what you consider 1st tier. Every guru that I have seen has MO listed as the 3rd ranked OT of the draft. Most are projecting he will be drafted anywhere in the 1st round from 6th to 16th. What draft guru specifically has him listed as bottom of the 1st?

[LApunkrocker72]

Whether the Redskins trade down or not, I think they should draft Oher with their first pick if he's available.