The last muscle car - Sexy as a swollen porn star on meth, twice as useless

[Dictator]

No, they have their reasons. But those reasons are provincial and short sighted. They pay more attention to a handful of car nuts at the Detroit Auto Show than to the big picture about practical economic cars and longterm sales trends.

IMO.

so one vehicle in their line-up is what you gather their "bigger picture" from?

You're smarter than that P.

[frostyj]

Memories!!

This is almost the same color as mine!!

[Predicto]

US automakers definately need to get into the ~15k mix. I see thousands of Civics, Corollas, and Sentra's driving around every day. Where at the Cobalt's and Focus's? No where to be found on the street.

Having said that... the car pictured is absolutely bad ass. Perhaps the writer of that piece should get a brace for that limp wrist.

Heah, he is gay. Militantly gay. And I admitted up front that he was also borderline psycho.

But I still think he is making a good point. People no longer open their checkbooks for "bad ass" cars. They mostly buy practical economical quality transportation. And GM continues to spiral downward.

[frostyj]

Heah, he is gay. Militantly gay. And I admitted up front that he was also borderline psycho.

But I still think he is making a good point. People no longer open their checkbooks for "bad ass" cars. They mostly buy practical economical quality transportation. And GM continues to spiral downward.

They don't?? Does not seem like that here in N. VA

I'm not one by far, but there are a lot around that do!

[Stophovr6]

US automakers definately need to get into the ~15k mix. I see thousands of Civics, Corollas, and Sentra's driving around every day. Where at the Cobalt's and Focus's? No where to be found on the street.

Having said that... the car pictured is absolutely bad ass. Perhaps the writer of that piece should get a brace for that limp wrist.

The focus was a pretty popular vehicle in Europe at one point if i remember correctly. Also the sold a smaller Ford Ka that seemed to be everywhere.

[Predicto]

so one vehicle in their line-up is what you gather their "bigger picture" from?

You're smarter than that P.

You are right. What was I thinking?

I must have missed the recent renaissance of GM back to the world's dominant carmaker. The clamoring crowds begging to buy all the latest GM models have turned Detroit and Flint back into the economic powerhouses of America. Unemployment in Michigan has dropped to 2.3%.

I've been pwnt again. :sad:

[twa]

But this article isn't about the Malibu, its about reintroducing the Camaro. The Camaro is pretty good - if you are a high school kid living in 1979.

Hell yeah, them were the days(had a tricked out 68 RS:cool:) ...Think I'll buy one for the wife.

The reviews I've seen are pretty good,but not too fond of the interior.

[No_Pressure]

The guy writing this article has a bone to pick with muscle cars or large, rear wheel drive, American v8's in general.

One thing bothered me though, he referred to the muscle cars as being build on terribly designed platforms and it made me think...the "panther" platform that the crown vic, grand marquis, towncar, and ltd have been built on since 1979 is a redesign of an earlier concept based off of muscle cars from the late 60's and early 70's. That same platform is in use today and those cars repeatedly get the best ratings in safety tests. It's a good platform coupled with the 4.6 v8, I get 25 mpg out of my grand marquis and I was getting 23 out of a 3.5 v6 in an acura RL before that so yeah...

GM did screw up though, so did all the auto makers in America since 1972...it would take way too long to explain how and why they did it though.

[Dictator]

You are right. What was I thinking?

I must have missed the recent renaissance of GM back to the world's dominant carmaker. The clamoring crowds begging to buy all the latest GM models have turned Detroit and Flint back into the economic powerhouses of America. Unemployment in Michigan has dropped to 2.3%.

I've been pwnt again. :sad:

never once did i say they were dominant again.

However you are pointing towards ONE car in their entire lineup and saying "this is why they suck". You are ignoring the good things they have done recently.

[Predicto]

The focus was a pretty popular vehicle in Europe at one point if i remember correctly. Also the sold a smaller Ford Ka that seemed to be everywhere.

Focus is a good car.

If Detroit put in more effort over the years to making good practical American cars like that, and more focus was put on improving their quality from year to year, instead of selling based on "look," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[SkinsBry]

my grandma had a 1970 Nova and she used to let me "drive" it when we were in empty parking lots. that thing was beyond sick, was navy blue and just used to sound like it wanted to eat other cars.

My first car was a '72 Nova. I used to eat other cars up with that beast. I still miss it, I should never have gotten rid of it when I went into the Army.

[BigMike619]

Focus is a good car.

If Detroit put in more effort over the years to making good practical American cars like that, and more focus was put on improving their quality from year to year, instead of selling based on "look," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

a Focus?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you ONLY use a car for going to and from some place.

you ever go out for a drive? ever go cruising? you ever just wanna go fast?

[Predicto]

never once did i say they were dominant again.

However you are pointing towards ONE car in their entire lineup and saying "this is why they suck". You are ignoring the good things they have done recently.

I guess I feel that it is symbolic. I see the "good things" as minimal. They are rearrranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, rather than changing course to miss the iceberg.

[RedskinFeathers]

This guy is an idiot. "It's just like the Corvette; another car for 10-year-old boys trapped in 45-year-old bodies." :doh:

If I didn't need a truck (Chevy Silverado btw) which I just bought 6 months ago, I was going to hold out until this beautiful machine came out...but I needed a truck too much.

[twa]

Focus is a good car.

You just lost any credibility:silly:

[Predicto]

a Focus?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you ONLY use a car for going to and from some place.

That is what most people want, and GM needs to understand that. Nothing wrong with making some impractical cars, but if you want to be a successful manufacturer, your focus needs to be on a good practical core.

you ever go out for a drive? ever go cruising? you ever just wanna go fast?

I have a minivan for the family and a 1991 VW Cabriolet Convertable for me. I put the top down and cruise along the beach or up into the hills all the time. I understand what you are saying.

But I am not the typical consumer. GM needs to sell millions of vehicles to the typical consumer.

[zoony]

No, they have their reasons. But those reasons are provincial and short sighted. They pay more attention to a handful of car nuts at the Detroit Auto Show than to the big picture about practical economic cars and longterm sales trends.

IMO.

so you've seen all of the market research. How big the entry-level sports car segment is. how many camaros chevy plans to build. cost of development, margin, etc.

You're basing your decision on that, of course. Not that you simply don't care for the car personally, or that you took the writer of the article in the OP seriously

[zoony]

Focus is a good car.

If Detroit put in more effort over the years to making good practical American cars like that, and more focus was put on improving their quality from year to year, instead of selling based on "look," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

GM has sinned plenty over the years, no doubt. My only point is that now more than ever they're actually on the right track.

...

[RedskinFeathers]

you ever go out for a drive? ever go cruising? you ever just wanna go fast?

Umm I feel like people don't like to do that anymore. Cars aren't supposed to be "fun" anymore. They're supposed to be eco friendly and just take you too and from places using the least amount of gas possible. And it helps if they can fit in a parallel parking spot by just pulling straight in...because it's just way too difficult to parallel park. :doh:

My dad's rebuilding a '57 Chevy BelAir right now...beautiful vehicle...soo much fun to take out to just cruise around on summer nights.

[Dan T.]

I've had pretty good luck with Chevys over the years, and would buy one again. We have a Suburban now that I have an unnatural romance with. Great vehicle despite the cost of gas.

I think GM has a problem with a public perception of GM inferiority in recent years that may have had some basis in fact long ago but which they can't shake regardess of the product they put out now. Because of that there is a segment of the American public who would never buy a GM product over a German or Japanese brand.

[Predicto]

so you've seen all of the market research. How big the entry-level sports car segment is. how many camaros chevy plans to build. cost of development, margin, etc.

You're basing your decision on that, of course. Not that you simply don't care for the car personally, or that you took the writer of the article in the OP seriously

I don't claim to be an expert on the auto market.

I think I can say without much fear of contradiction that GM's army of marketing experts have not served the company well over the past 30 years.

I suspect, as a layman, that reintroducing the Camaro in 2010 may be highly representative of the problem. :whoknows:

[BigMike619]

1991 VW Cabriolet Convertable

dude, thats a chic car. you gotta get with it!!

[The 12th Commandment]

He's silly about his passion. Kinda like the stadium, huh?

[Dan T.]

BTW, I had to laugh at the author's line about the Camaro, that "Chevy was resurrecting this rolling mullet from the mausoleum of the '70s." Over the top, but pretty funny.

[Rocky21]

Who gives a damn about the "look" these days? You really think remaking the Camaro is the kind of forward thinking that is going to save GM?

GM still thinks that they can put out an impractical poorly designed mediocrity with a masculine look, put out a million ads with a Bob Seger soundtrack, and get back into contention.

How many of you actually would buy this car, today, in this economy? Anyone? Why? What would you use it for?

Now look out the window. How many well-made, practical Toyotas and Hondas and Nissans do you see people driving? A billion? A zillion? Wonder why that is?

It's because people can talk about the look of a car all they want, but when push comes to shove, 90% buy based on price, practicality, reliability and gas mileage.

Don't let your blind hatred of Bob Seger sway your judgement.