Hubbs Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 It wasn't meant to be directed to you I know you understand. Erm... I agree with everything he said, so I'd love to hear where my avalanche of "ignorance" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Describe "that road".Also, could you weigh in on the relationship between oil prices and Russia's economy, as well as effects the recent global economic downturn had on Russia? People hear a soundbite and they think they know something. It's rediculous. the PERFECT response, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 The posters doubting Russia's reemergence are severely deluded. They are absolutely reasserting themselves, at least, in their own backyard. They've watched the United States encroach on their sphere of influence since Yeltsin, and in particular, since 9/11. Caspian littoral states have been staring west for nearly two decades. "Pipeline politics" is no joke. Add the GWOT (oh wait, my bad, the "Overseas Contingency Operations" ) and the U.S. has essentially been poking a sleeping bear with a stick. "We are all Georgians." Doubt the Russians at your own peril. Regardless, Putin was not this politically flatulent when Bush was running the show, and this is fact. I predicted a Georgia/Russia conflict three years ago in a paper I wrote for an old Cold Warrior in grad school. He scoffed at my prognostication and gave me a B+. Who's laughing now? I called it, and my grade suffered. Russia is on the rise. Putin and his Medvedevian puppet are licking their chops at an Obama presidency. Obamaphiles can deny it at will, but as stated, it's pure delusion. Obama simply is not prepared to deal with a KGB-led Russia. How hard did the Russians laugh at his attempt to curtail Iran's nuclear ambitions? Naivete is a brutal thing and we will pay the price for it. Mr. Saakashvili and fellow regional leaders can point with obvious fear and insecurity to the fact that under the new watchful eyes of the new American regime the Russians are willing roar their mightiest roar by bribing a desperately poor country with $2.5 billion in aid to not extend the lease on a military base (actually... the bribe offer occurred during the Bush admin... but who wants to split hairs here...) Anyhoo... the OBVIOUS acceleration that this bold move represents over like, oh, say, Russia invading an American ally in the region last year represents a clear trajectory of terror. Yes Mr. Putin was oh so cowed by the stoic Mr. Bush, who looked Mr Putin in the eye, and saw deep into his soul, and beheld a man he could work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Erm... I agree with everything he said, so I'd love to hear where my avalanche of "ignorance" is. Throughout this whole post you have been ignorant about Russia. Down playing that their not relevant threat against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 No one is ignorant about the crappiness and hostility of Putin's Russia. I myself have repeatedly stated on this board that I consider him the worst human being in the world, and nominated him as the the one person I would like to see drop dead.Also, no one is questioning the fact that Russia can (and will) make life miserable for its immediate neighbors, especially the ones to the south of Russia, and there really isn't a heck of a lot that the US can do about it. We are too far away and too occupied with other problems. All of that is a long, long way from saying that the US itself has to fear Russia the way we used to fear the Soviet Union. Putin can meddle in our business, but he can't take us (or Western Europe) on. No way. Actually they could take us because we are spread so thin at the moment. Maybe not to the same fear during the Cold War but about half way to that level of fear. I wouldn't say a long long way it will closer to the future then you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 If the column was an in-depth critique of a specific foreign policy situation, it would get a more reasoned response. If it were an in-depth critique of a specific foreign policy situation, the sheep who voted for Obama wouldn't understand it and would press "reset" as well. But...mention "pay my mortgage"... "give me gas money".... and "the rich should pay more... because they can afford to" and.... now those are things liberals can understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Actually they could take us because we are spread so thin at the moment. Maybe not to the same fear during the Cold War but about half way to that level of fear. I wouldn't say a long long way it will closer to the future then you think. Could "take us" in what capacity? Do you honestly think the United States is invadable? They'd have to start a conflict elsewhere, and then we'd have to oblige them by showing up. Elsewhere= closer to their soil. Not really in their best interest at this point. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Ah yes, the trusty "too early to tell" argument. While somewhat true, the early trends are indeed disturbing. I have a feeling we'll be hearing "man, it's only been four years, give him time" around 2012. Edit: Five times and counting. Is it just me, or does anyone else notice the same exact argument going on in the stadium over our QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Could "take us" in what capacity?Do you honestly think the United States is invadable? They'd have to start a conflict elsewhere, and then we'd have to oblige them by showing up. Elsewhere= closer to their soil. Not really in their best interest at this point. ~Bang Sorry I meant to say could take us on becuase we are spread so thin. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Sorry I meant to say could take us on becuase we are spread so thin. My bad. Well, they can push, but it takes two to tango. I don't think they're in any capacity to project on their neighbors on a massive scale as they once could. I think if they think west, European forces present enough of a deterrent in their present state. They may be using this nationalistic push to re-arming as their own stimulus.. put people to work building tanks and such. Their recent moves should not be taken lightly, but I don't think they pose a threat at this point. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Well, they can push, but it takes two to tango. I don't think they're in any capacity to project on their neighbors on a massive scale as they once could. I think if they think west, European forces present enough of a deterrent in their present state.They may be using this nationalistic push to re-arming as their own stimulus.. put people to work building tanks and such. Their recent moves should not be taken lightly, but I don't think they pose a threat at this point. ~Bang What happen to Georgia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Russia is still ground and troop heavy. Ground war they can do some things. But we'd have air supiority over them as soon as things got hot meaning their artillery and tanks are pretty useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Throughout this whole post you have been ignorant about Russia. Down playing that their not relevant threat against us. You haven't actually demonstrated one thing I'm "ignorant" about regarding Russia. All you've done is blindly assumed that you're 100% correct and thrown barbs at anyone who disagrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 What happen to Georgia? Are you kidding? Beating up on Georgia now = threat to United States? Being able to pwn Georgia militarily is like being able to pwn a midget at basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 What happen to Georgia? Georgia is going to have to deal with the fact that it is a tiny country on the south border of a huge country that has dominated it for centuries, and that the US is on the other side of the world and not in a good position to protect Georgia. Are you suggesting the US should go to war over Georgia? It would be like the Russians trying to stop the USA from invading Tijuana. Logistally impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 If it were an in-depth critique of a specific foreign policy situation, the sheep who voted for Obama wouldn't understand it and would press "reset" as well. But...mention "pay my mortgage"... "give me gas money".... and "the rich should pay more... because they can afford to" and.... now those are things liberals can understand. Classic Cskin post. Thanks for playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 What happen to Georgia? As Hubbs and Predicto pointed out, it's not nearly the same as invading a NATO nation like Germany, Poland, etc.... something that could theoretically cause a US intervention. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I'm fascinated how all of a sudden all those who were constantly saying, "Bleep (pick a country)" are now worrying about how foreign nations are preceiving us and whether they like us better or not. It's just interesting watching all the ways people flip flop based on whether their guy is in the spotlight or the other guy. For what it's worth, Obama needs to keep improving in all areas. I think and hope he will. For example, I think Geitner's plan and ability to explain it in March is already superior than his plan in January and February. But generally, it is funny how people who were so dismissive about foreign reputation now are trying to use appearances as ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I'm fascinated how all of a sudden all those who were constantly saying, "Bleep (pick a country)" are now worrying about how foreign nations are preceiving us and whether they like us better or not.It's just interesting watching all the ways people flip flop based on whether their guy is in the spotlight or the other guy. For what it's worth, Obama needs to keep improving in all areas. I think and hope he will. For example, I think Geitner's plan and ability to explain it in March is already superior than his plan in January and February. But generally, it is funny how people who were so dismissive about foreign reputation now are trying to use appearances as ammo. Just join the non-interventionist side, it's the only sane stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Classic Cskin post. Thanks for playing. Classic Predicto response... feign ownership of intellectual high ground...ignore reality.... and quickly point off in the distance and say..."look...over there". :doh: Back to the topic... our Messiah "Citizen of the World" is quickly realizing that grand meteoric campaign speeches and drooling National Media aren't enough on the big world stage... where a community organizer is just that... a community organizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 A right wing columnist is just spraying :pooh: Our reputation around the world has never been lower, Obama starts to clean up the mess, and partisan hackjobs like this guy chime in that Obama is a failure because in 70 whole days he hasn't mananged to convince the Russians and the Chinese and the Iranians and the Venezuelians and even the crazy North Koreans to disband their militaries and join NATO. :laugh: We're 1/20th of the way through Obama's 1st term... I'd like to hear your point of view on what Barack Obama has done well regarding foreign affairs. You claim he has started to "clean up the mess". What makes you feel he is cleaning things up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I thought this was a story about the Orioles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 For what it's worth, Obama needs to keep improving in all areas. I think and hope he will. For example, I think Geitner's plan and ability to explain it in March is already superior than his plan in January and February. I, uh... wouldn't be all too sure about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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