There ain't much talk of re-building the trenches these days...

[JTNumber7]

Two players doesn't constitute addressing the lines. Dockery is a guard and definitely an upgrade over Kendall, but Randy Thomas struggled last year, especially down the stretch. We have no depth behind him. By all accounts, Rinehart "isn't ready yet," and Heyer still is not a professional RT, much less a LT. If we don't draft OL and DL almost exclusively, I will be pretty confused (oh, right, Vinny believes in "best available player; so do we draft a couple more WR's and turn into Detroit East?).

[Est.1974]

I have read through many threads and all i see is that we hope, that some youngsters who havent played a ****ing down in the NFL yet, are going to come in and cure aaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll the problems that some guys who at least have played/started in this league couldnt solve.

It that was always the case, Detroit would send them the #1 pick for Cutler and the story would be over.

Maybe they will

[Omega4ce]

It that was always the case' date=' Detroit would send them the #1 pick for Cutler and the story would be over.

Maybe they will [/quote']

We talk about Detroit. Their franchise is even worse then ours. They wouldnt even hit the water if they would fall out of the boat

I guess we have to agree to disagree, so instead let concentrate on something we all agree...

:dallasuck:eaglesuck:gaintsuck

[Snagletooth]

Franchise QB obviously trumps every other position. They are rare. Quality RT's are not so difficult to find.

[turbodiesel#44]

with a QB like Cutler under center, and all he brings to the table; than a QB like Campbell, who you could put behind the best combined O-Line in history, and everything to date points to the fact we'd be no better off as an attacking force as, by the very nature of his play, he plays to not lose football games, rather than win them.

Hail.

But Cutler wouldn't be at the table. He'd be on his ass just like any other QB behind that old line of ours. Getting Cutler would involve 2 1st rounders and probably a player. IMO, they don't want JC. Too expensive, and too prohibitive of building our line back for years. Dock should be solid, but we need 4 guys ready to start behind the vets on a moments notice. Something gives out earlier every year on these guys.

And we don't have a single WR who can get any separation anyway. Really, a 2 TE set with Cooley spread is not the answer.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

But Cutler wouldn't be at the table. He'd be on his ass just like any other QB behind that old line of ours. Getting Cutler would involve 2 1st rounders and probably a player. IMO, they don't want JC. Too expensive, and too prohibitive of building our line back for years. Dock should be solid, but we need 4 guys ready to start behind the vets on a moments notice. Something gives out earlier every year on these guys.

And we don't have a single WR who can get any separation anyway. Really, a 2 TE set with Cooley spread is not the answer.

Hey, that's fair enough man.

I would argue those valid points with what, IMHO, Cutler would add to alleviate both those problems to a large degree, but like many threads this week, we'd just be going round in circles.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on a QB like Cutler, while agreeing regardless of that the line definitely needs addressing.

I guess the only way we'd know for sure would be in actually seeing Cutler behind that line in this offense.

Time will tell what happen's on that score.....

Hail.

[turbodiesel#44]

Time will tell what happen's on that score.....

Hail.

I do agree Cutler would be an upgrade. It's just the cost, and in the face of significant other problems, that upgrade would not be sufficient to affect our outcome as greatly as using our resources in the trenches. That has to be done asap anyway, our guys are simply too old. And fixing the OL should have a positive effect on JC's game too. In any case, I really think we should make a final decision on JC by mid-season. Maybe we throw C"MF"B in there and see what's in the pantry. Or Collins could finish the season up for us if JC does not clearly step into the franchise role. We should have a first rounder next year to blow on another QB if needed. We have to stop giving away future picks. It's killing us right now.

But none of this makes our OL any sturdier or younger. And our OL will likely factor into the draw our team will have towards a vet QB, if we go that route. One thing I can guarantee, our OL is not going to get any better with these same guys. They are all on the downhill. I doubt Jansen would start for any other team. And the other guys are worn down by game 7.

[PrimetimeSkins26]

Trading for Cutler would be a bad idea. We'd probably be worse than last year becuase we'd have to give up way to much. I really question Cutlers leadership ability becuase you need a leader at quarterback to win a Super Bowl. I just feel we'd be the Washington Wizards of the NFL even if Cutler was on our team and be stuck in mediocrity. To even get to that point though we'd have to fix our offensive line or else Cutler would be on his *** all day.

Smart post by the OP. We need to fix our trenches if we ever want to compete. This isn't the NFC West. This is the toughest division in football, the NFC East.

[Vicious]

can't win the superbowl with crappy lines

[Justsomeguy]

But what of the cherished #13 pick. You know' date=' the one to trade back with for OT / DE / OLB. Those positions we have to have, don't we ?

Well, say we got him at the cost it will take. How do we sort everything else out ?

[/quote']

I think you are exactly right though I prefer to keep 13 and take a top-tier player instead. Not the fix everything now or just draft a bunch of depth that likely won't amount to much.

I don't think Cutler has proven enough to totally get behind him. I have always thought Cutler was very talented but he isn't worth the risk at this point. Aside from that they want a very steep price for the QB with the hurt feelings.....

[Est.1974]

Smart post by the OP. We need to fix our trenches if we ever want to compete. This isn't the NFC West. This is the toughest division in football, the NFC East.

Thanks,

Jansen & Heyer for RT

Rinehart primary back-up at G ?

back-up centre ? / and Rabach is hardly loved on here,

Lets hope Samuels doesn't miss a snap.

Same for Haynesworth;

We give Haynesworth $32m in 13 months to collapse the pocket for Wynn, maybe Daniels, Jackson or Wilson to fly around the edges to sack the QB ?

Yikes, There still some things to fix there.

Cutler yes, at all costs plus writing the 2009 draft off, no.

Maybe we'd make a favourable trade which left us some room for manoeuvre is this years draft as well. That would be nice.

[MumboSauce]

I'm all for drafting OL. We get Cutler we will still probably have our 3rd, 5th and 6th. Go OT in the 3rd, DE with the 5th and LB in the 6th. Will can readdress the positions in next year's draft.

That scenario would be fine with me.

[alwaysaskin]

There are those of us who think that the Cutler stuff is BS anyway. My ideal situation woul be

1. Oher

3. Eric Wood

5. Andy Kemp

then sign some depth. I don't think heyer is ready for prime time. Rabach is the human drive killer because he gets beat off the line and then gets the laundry for holding. Jansen is D-O-N-E and Thomas struggled down the stretch. Samuels is all pro but he better not miss a sap or else we get turd Geisinger. I agree with UK Skins fan: Cutler will look the same as any other QB wiping the dirt off his ass while three fifths of the line plays on roller skates.

[36HAMMER]

i still want the skins to trade the 13th pick and get a lower 1st and a second. the second rounder may have to be moved up, but if we can pick duke robinson of oklahoma and alex mack of california our oline would be so much stronger. thomas with his injuries and being a light and smallish guard as well as an older guard is going against him.then maybe tradfor an tackle or lb to fill the void. angelo crowell was had cheaply by the bucs but the skins didn't seem to want him.we can only hope to fix one line fully this year. and getting mack and robinson would go along way in doing that.mack would give a center the likes of which ( with all regards to bostic)that we have never had.dockery,mack,robinson would give us alot of interior power. something we have lacked more and more as time goes on.getting 2 quality olineman with the potenial of being perinial probowlers instead of staying put and getting just one.if you doubt the logic, check the history of the burgundy and gold my bro's. three different qb,s,3diferent rb's, and an oline that for the most point stayed toether for 10 year. i know i'm preachin to the chior, but i'm frustrated with the choices of this team. getting these two guys would put this team in a very good position.and if reinhart somehow gets it together and becomes a rt then we set.samuels,dockery,mack,robinson,jansen(heyer,reinhart)first downs would be something we will get much more often.and touchdowns from the 2yrd line will not end in frustration as much anymore.possibly trade thomas or maybe one more year.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

They got younger at two spots in Haynesworth and Dockery. Heyer is still a question mark but played well early in the year, pre-injury. Monty and Golston are young DT's. Carter has a few left in him. Rinehart is a question mark but could be the answer at one of the OL spots in the future. Contrary to your beliefs, I think that the FO and coaches are definitely addressing the trenches and may very well address them in the draft as well. No doubt, the Cutler talk has bored me...over it, but I'm actually pleasantly surprised that they made two big trench moves in FA. That's a great start IMO.

(BTW the LB position isn't considered a "trench" spot, so why the mention of Fincher etc?) wink-wink-nudge-nudge

[SirClintonPortis]

Need to grab a big stud center for depth and the future. There are plenty of teams using the 3-4, and it's best to be prepared should Rabach totally stink it up.

[SirClintonPortis]

Double post....I'm never hitting try again when 'the network link is interrupted' ever again.

[Shilsu]

In terms of the lines, we still need:

Starting RT - Heyer is a great backup, Jansen is not a starter.

Backup G - Randy Thomas cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

Starting/Backup C - Either an immediate upgrade or next year's replacement.

Starting DE - Wynn?

Backup DE - Umm, who are we left with if Wynn gets injured?

Starting/Backup DT - Griffin cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

[MrJL]

There are those of us who think that the Cutler stuff is BS anyway. My ideal situation woul be

1. Oher

3. Eric Wood

5. Andy Kemp

then sign some depth. I don't think heyer is ready for prime time. Rabach is the human drive killer because he gets beat off the line and then gets the laundry for holding. Jansen is D-O-N-E and Thomas struggled down the stretch. Samuels is all pro but he better not miss a sap or else we get turd Geisinger. I agree with UK Skins fan: Cutler will look the same as any other QB wiping the dirt off his ass while three fifths of the line plays on roller skates.

one, stop calling Redskins players turds.

two, it's more likely that Heyer would move to LT before Geisinger would come in.

Didn't I see someone suggest we draft Alex Mack? He's a center, but I swear I remember reading something about a center who could play all five positions(the next Bruce Matthews) Is this him?

And what if we drafted a center, cut Rabach and used his salary to sign a RT?

[MrJL]

In terms of the lines, we still need:

Starting RT - Heyer is a great backup, Jansen is not a starter.

Backup G - Randy Thomas cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

Starting/Backup C - Either an immediate upgrade or next year's replacement.

Starting DE - Wynn?

Backup DE - Umm, who are we left with if Wynn gets injured?

Starting/Backup DT - Griffin cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

Have we actually seen Geisinger play center? He might do fine

[corrupt3d]

In terms of the lines, we still need:

Starting RT - Heyer is a great backup, Jansen is not a starter.

Backup G - Randy Thomas cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

Starting/Backup C - Either an immediate upgrade or next year's replacement.

Starting DE - Wynn?

Backup DE - Umm, who are we left with if Wynn gets injured?

Starting/Backup DT - Griffin cannot be relied upon to stay healthy.

Don't forget SLB and LB depth in general, though I like Khary Campbell and The Bladester, we still need a solid third.

And a fourth CB, has anyone realized we're walking into the season right now with Tryon as our 4?

[McD5]

Great thread. Some of our best newer members are from England it seems.

The lines are a nightmare. You can run, but you can't hide.

We might have too many resources tied up in other areas of the team.

This kind of puts the light on about how much of a luxury pick Davis was last season. Totally unnecessary. We simply don't need Cooley, Davis and Yoder.

So take one of them....my preference of course is keeping Cooley, and maybe package them with someone else to get a lineman.

We are stocked in our safety position as well.

Horton and Landry....Kareem Moore and now Doughty.

Sorry, that is just too much considering what we need at other positions.

Take one of them....and it might have to be a fan-favorite, and package them with Fred Davis.

I haven't even seen it considered or discussed on here before, and granted, it would be a little unconventional...

But could we get a real solid lineman, for a combo of Fred Davis and a Landry? Fred Davis and Horton?

Another idea......approach teams with an excess of linemen, and see what they want.

I know some were against Calais Campbell. But for at least a season or two......I could see serious merit in trading a Davis for a Calais Campbell type. Then let Haynesworth lift his game up.

Certainly that would be an improvement to what we have now. And it would at least get us through the season, while not wasting Al's work.

Then....add that to Cutler.....and we are playing ball.

Thoughts?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Then....add that to Cutler.....and we are playing ball.

Thoughts?

Add Cutler period and we become LEGIT again.

As for the lines, interesting idea packaging to take us through the short term, although I personally would prefer to hang onto Davis, but if it helps out in a greater area of need, it certainly has it's merits.

As regards the O-line, as we stand, I'd be happy going into next year with a line of Samuels, Dock, a hopefully drafted center, (Rabach's pitifully undersized), Randy and Heyer. (This is presuming the 13 pick goes on Cutler. If not, then hopefully we get lucky either there, or by trading down, and still pick up a big ass tackle.). In the Cutler scenario, I could live with Heyer getting another year's full on playing experience under his belt, and hopefully improving his run blocking skills along the way. Were stuck with JJ for another year due to his cap #, and with Chad entering his second year and hopefully ready to be pushing, there's not too much to fill in terms of depth.

I'm still basing this in the main on the hope of snagging Cutler. Obviously that's gona' leave us light in a few areas for a year or so, but hey, with some creative manoeuvring like McD5's thrown up, that might not have to be as light as first feared.

Hail.

[kubstix]

Thoughts?

Meh....I just don't think we can really afford to ship any starter on Defense really. We added Haynesworth, Wynn, Daniels, Dhall. We upgraded here....if it aint broke don't fix it. Fred Davis is pretty athletic and can potentially be dangerous. I'de like to see the Redskins have 2 solid TE's both coming out on Red Zone/2nd/3rd downs. We cannot afford to get rid of anything on Offense either. Cutler would seal alot of flaws in the Oline and receiver position IMO. I believe our Oline would look much more solid with a 3 second drop back and the ball already coming out. We could really get Cutler, resign Marcus for 1 year....draft LB,OL,DE,LB. We could potentially sit on our roster until next year's draft and address OL,DL,LB,ect next year. By adding Cutler and the players we did this offseason, alot of positions are locked up for years to come. If we can compete with the trade offers, DO IT.

[McD5]

Add Cutler period and we become LEGIT again.

As for the lines, interesting idea packaging to take us through the short term, although I personally would prefer to hang onto Davis, but if it helps out in a greater area of need, it certainly has it's merits.

As regards the O-line, as we stand, I'd be happy going into next year with a line of Samuels, Dock, a hopefully drafted center, (Rabach's pitifully undersized), Randy and Heyer. (This is presuming the 13 pick goes on Cutler. If not, then hopefully we get lucky either there, or by trading down, and still pick up a big ass tackle.). In the Cutler scenario, I could live with Heyer getting another year's full on playing experience under his belt, and hopefully improving his run blocking skills along the way. Were stuck with JJ for another year due to his cap #, and with Chad entering his second year and hopefully ready to be pushing, there's not too much to fill in terms of depth.

I'm still basing this in the main on the hope of snagging Cutler. Obviously that's gona' leave us light in a few areas for a year or so, but hey, with some creative manoeuvring like McD5's thrown up, that might not have to be as light as first feared.

Hail.

I am with you 100% on the Cutler move. No, make that 150%.

I am assuming our 13th is gone. That still leaves a major hole at DE.

We dump Davis....a guy who, barring injury to Cooley, honestly isn't going to play that much....to a team where he would play a lot.

In turn, we get a huge Calais Campbell. A second rounder from last year, who also, barring injury, isn't going to play that much at Arizona.

We get what we want, and they get what they want. Sounds like it may have some merit......and wow, would we have a big D line with the addition of someone his size.

Hello Brandon Jacobs. Meet Death.