USS Redskins Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 good stuff. 10 years into the Snyder era and not even St Joe helped them with much. The Vinny/Zorn era will prove to be another debacle, I am sure. Anyone satisfied with 6th seed wildcards every few years, then, argue away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkekoa Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 The Giants will be getting Osi back in 2009 and that plus the development of youngsters such as Ross and Dockery in the secondary will make them perhaps a better defensive team than they were in 2008. OSI is highly overrated and it took a 6 sack performance for him to get into the Pro Bowl last year against a backup tackle. Still you have to credit Dallas with the ability to field a competitive team, one that has players just entering their primes at a number of positions. They weren't very competitive against the Eagles when it counted even though we beat the Eagles twice. Considering the Redskins in isolation here are some of the storm clouds I see gathering: 1. It appears as if the negotiations with DeAngelo Hall's agent aren't going anywhere on a new contract. Hall at 25 is the one good thing that came out of the 2008 season personnel-wise for the Redskins other than Chris Horton. To think the club is potentially going to let a #1 corner and playmaker (see career interception totals) go in free agency and perhaps go to Dallas would be a move that would really hit the team and fan base quite a bit. Part of me wishes DeSean Jackson had caught both passes in that second game so we could all stop praising the pahria known as DHall. He isn't worth the 8 million/year price tag considering his history. Sean Taylor's absence from the Redskins lineup due to tragic circumstances seemed ready to set the secondary back 3-4 years. The unexpected arrival of Hall in mid-season last year appeared to be move that could see us make up ground quickly in the back seven with Hall's youth and athletic ability. We were top 5 without Hall and were top 5 with him...he isn't necessarily the answer. If the club can guarantee $20M in additional for Portis and still entertain keeping Randle El on the roster at his absurd cap number for a #3 receiver, don't tell me there isn't a way to make it work with #25. You can't let players handcuff you into contracts they are not worth...I hope we have figured that out. 2. Signs the club may be close to retaining Shawn Springs and Pete Kendall. I still don't understand why the Redskins are so down on Carlos Rogers. Rogers still has a year left on his rookie contract and we know that Springs is not going to take a salary cut to return, which means guaranteeing future dollars AGAIN to an aging player who doesn't suit up for 16 games anymore. Totally agree. Kendall at 36 IMO is done as a starter. Due to his knees, Kendall doesn't practice during the week during the regular season and he wears down over the course of the year so that his December performances come nowhere near matching what he gives you in September and October. The Redskins need to move on here. Whether it is using a #3 pick on a OG and making the right decision so that the player is ready to come in and contribute in 2009, or making a move in free agency to acquire a solid if not spectacular OG who can be a consistent presence over the 16 games, the team needs to make at least one or possibly two moves here. Agreed. Kendall played well this year but ideally he goes elsewhere and plays to a reasonable contract and we get a compensatory pick for him. But more than anything the talk of retaining these players (and some talk also about trying to get Taylor to restructure to stay in 2009), to me is an indication that some in the front office still don't get that this is a team that needs to be re-built or seriously re-tooled not merely tinkered with to improve. AGREED Squeeze as much cap room out of releasing Springs, Kendall, Taylor, etc. and using that money to sign mid-tier free agents under 30 and locking up your own younger players ahead of their reaching FA. I'd consider keeping Springs and hopefully he plays the next year on another team for a compensatory pick. 3. I sure hope the Redskins are not thinking that they are going to replace what is the worst set of special teamers in the NFL in Suisham, Plackemeier and Randle El with journyemen like Rayner and the ex-CFL import signed a couple of days ago. The Redskins have gone 'on the cheap' for far too long at positions that have become a lot more important in the age of parity in the NFL. Correct. Other available FA include Lechler, Bironas, Jay Feeley, and Mike Nugent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This might be the best thread of the off-season right here. Well said Bulldog. That was the ultimate Anti-Larry Michael point of view. We need to get.... 1. Cap Room 2. Younger 3. Deeper all the before you can even expect to compete. Man if I have to sacrifice a couple of sub par years to be good in the future then I guest that is a bullet I have to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I don't agree that ANY Free Agent moves need to be done, not Hall, Peppers, Boldin, whoever. This team still doesn't win with any one of them next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I don't agree that ANY Free Agent moves need to be done, not Hall, Peppers, Boldin, whoever.This team still doesn't win with any one of them next year. fairweather:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Can't disagree with any of that bulldog. Nor can I. Keeping guys like Springs, Kendall and even Randel-El is absurd. We need a youth movement and that starts with some fresh blood on the offensive and defensive lines, as well as keeping Rogers and Hall in the secondary. Springs is done. The point about special teams is excellent. We get nothing on punt returns and our field goal kicker is 50/50 on a good day. Don't even wanna talk about the punting situation. Too pitiful overall. That 2nd Philly game didn't change the fact that Plack-a-whatever is a scrub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Keeping guys like Springs, Kendall and even Randel-El is absurd. While I understand Springs just from the injury standpoint, the guy is far from done and is probably still one of the best when healthy. Personally, I'd try to trade him. Why keep Kendall? Because he'd be damn valuable as a reserve. The guy plays all the OL positions, and you'd want an experienced player coming off the bench. As for ARE, there is little savings in cutting him. Considering that he does have some value as a receiver, there is no real good reason to cut him right now. Really, the only time you take the hit is if the player is useless to you, and ARE is far from useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHendrix Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I doubt it. They just played in the NFC Championship game again and are looking to add big time playmakers in Free Agency. The window of opportunity is closing on McNabb and I believe they will make one more strong push to a Superbowl. As much as I hate it, my pick for the NFC East this year is the Eagles. The Eagles getting to that game was a fluke, just like Arizona making the SB. Philly's idea of big-time playmakers is a third-rate receiver. Going deep in the playoffs was bad for them in the long run, because they need to rebuild as much or more than we do; making the championship game only assures a longer tenure for Andy Reid and their current crop of injury-prone players. As for the OP, I agree with everything except Jason Taylor. I think he should be retained, especially if it's for less money. Springs, Washington, Kendall, and Randle-El should all be cap-casualties, freeing up room to sign our rooks, retain Hall, and go after OL/DL FAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldsdbomber Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 IMO the start to the offseason has pointed up the serious adversities this team is going to have in re-tooling a club to be better than its 8-8 fourth place finish in 2008.snipped an excellent post. Bravo, friend - a great post. You've highlighted some things that have driven me nuts for years. How we waste crap loads of cash on washed up has beens but never go out and buy a top kicker and punter. A kicker is huge, and the difference between a top kicker and a rubbish one is not that high considering how much other positions cost. Also, a great punter, especially for a team with a conservative defense and offense is HUGE, I think teams just don't understand how important it is, it can make a massive difference and well worth the small outlay to get a good one. It's so so so so obvious to anyone with an IQ over 10 that this team has SUCKED BALLS at kicking and punting for ages - it needs to be sorted out. I would also clear as much cap as possible, but I'd also shop Moss for whatever I can get, I'd also shop Portis and take the big cap hit - simply because the Skins wilL NOT (feel free to come back and gloat if I'm wrong) be good while CP is playing - not because of him but because by the time this is sorted out he will be too old and gone. We can save a lot of cap with some other players like Taylor, Springs etc - take the hit on Portis and use the picks on young linemen. Put up with Betts and someone young, accept a couple of years of building and stock up those picks. Let hall go if you have to, Rogers will probably be cheaper, don't overpay Hall - keep him only if the deal is reasonable. We need OL, DL and LBs badly. Start there. Stop getting the biggest name FAs and bring in the mid tier and cheaper ones while you feed through the draft. This won't happen because Snyder and Cerrato and whoever else is in charge don't know what they're doing. And all the people who seem to have their head stuck somewhere dark, WAKE UP - this team has STUNK for MANY MANY YEARS, and it's outrageous. We should not be putting up with the same tired nonsense every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 fairweather:( Yeah, unfortunately, it's all about the weather because nobody can control an NFL team, much like the weather. Is that what Snyder believes? That sooner or later the sun will "decide" to shine on us Redskins fans again because he bought weather from somewhere else? 2008 The owner of our team predicts a clear sky over Washington because he paid handsomely for a huge part of the sunshine over Miami last year (Hell, JT was probably all of their sunshine), and in years past has summoned the weather from locations such as St. Louis, Buffalo, Chicago, Seattle, New York, and traded weather with Jax, Denver, New York, and Atlanta. He even gave away some weather to NY, Pitt, and Minn in order to forecast some of his own using what was already perfectly good FREE weather in the process. I'm not sure but I think I'd try to manufacture my own weather after that many failed attempts of the relocation of spf85 sunshine which became Lake Erie upon arrival to DC. I am just looking for a clear sky with a much smaller chance of precipitation. I could just stand in the rain and snow in my Redskins warpaint and enjoy getting soaked by it for another year while refusing to bring an umbrella for what is obviously going to happen like you though. I mean, you are much more hardcore than I am. Standing out there, knowing 10 feet of snow is coming, but your wearing a towel and flip flops. I am impressed. Sorry that I don't keep doing that year after year. I won't call myself a realist as you may expect because I don't need to. The Cardinals sucked for most of the last Century, the Eagles haven't won a Championship since Truman was the president, and the Redskins have been one of the worst half dozen teams so far this century while spending more money on players than any other team in the league. It's not a big secret. Just look at how many times the Redskins have won the division since Snyder started making the decisions for the Redskins. The team that was already there won it in 1999 by default. Since then? Philly/Dallas/NY have won all of them but you must be right. I am a fair weather fan because I acknowledge the incompetence of those who continue in their attempt (10 years later) to run the team despite the overwhelmingly obvious lack of any skill. These guys can't even make it interesting, it's just LOL, did you see what the Redskins just did most of the time. It's beyond pathetic at this point. What do you think Bill Parcells, Belichick, Cowher, Schottenheimer, and even Coughlin think about this franchise? It's a ****ing joke is what it is. Remember, Schottenheimer was fired because Dan Snyder knew more than Schottenheimer about building an NFL team, after 1 year, 1 year in which he actually reduced the cap significantly while still finishing strong with a bad team. Snyder>Schottenheimer in personnel decisions, right? We've been elite since 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This team was built by Gibbs to be at its peak between 2005-2007. If things broke correctly, 2008 could also be a successful season Looking back at the 2005 season, its clear the Redskins blew a golden opportunity to win the Superbowl. A 6th seed Pittsburgh team took the title. The NFC was no jagguernaut that year either The 2006 offseason was clear in its approach that the Redskins are very close and its time to close the deal. We all saw the results. 2007 was a nice bounce back year after 2006, and yet again the Redskins left 3-4 wins on the field in the regular season. 2008 would have been the last hara for Gibbs had things not taken a tragic twist in '07, and the team could have made some noise with a few tweaks. Again 3-4 wins left on the field. Regardless, unless Campbell had emerged as a superstar, 2009 would have looked to be a re-tooling rebuilding year in the "big plan" Guys like Washington, Griffin, Springs, and Daniels, that first FA class are clearly done as every down players Add to the fact the team compounded this with the mistake of bringing in Jason Taylor for 2 draft picks, not being able to re-sign Dockery and thus trading another pick for an old player (Kendall) and extending the contracts of guys like Jon Jansen, Clinton Portis and Randy Thomas The team needs to bite the bullet in 2009 and fundamentally fix the team the right way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The team needs to bite the bullet in 2009 and fundamentally fix the team the right way Your wish as well as mine. Sorry, but it's not going to happen. The fix-a-flat FO is not going to change. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldsdbomber Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Looking back at the 2005 season, its clear the Redskins blew a golden opportunity to win the Superbowl. A 6th seed Pittsburgh team took the title. The NFC was no jagguernaut that year either I'll have some of what you're smoking dude. The Redskins wouldn't have beaten Indianapolis, New England, Pittsburgh and probably not Denver or Jacksonville either. The Steelers were a much better team than we were. We lucked past Tampa, the score flattered us against Seattle (though with some luck we could have won), and I don't think we would have beaten Carolina. Regardless, we DIDN'T even get past Seattle. Having an "almost" good year in a season when the NFC sucked balls isn't much to crow about. The problem is we have been so ground down by years of ineptitude in Washington, that things like that are used by fans who just can't admit the team has been a freaking mess for close to TWENTY YEARS. I couldn't care less if we have had the odd spark of life, fundamentally the organisation has been a mess. Snyder / Cerrato have shown time and time again they do not know how to evaluate talent, be it in terms of using the draft, evaluating FA players, or getting the right staff in who can perform those roles. We continue to throw away high picks for old washed up has beens and are surprised at the bad outcomes. Of course we're going to win a few games that way but it's not a recipe for success. We also continually ruin our flexibility by massaging the cap, meanwhile anyone with an IQ in double figures can see that "getting under the cap after signing some big names" is NOT the same as "properly managing the cap" in terms of efficient use of resources. All teams have the same limit - more or less - so fiddling contracts to make it work year to year just means you waste more money on players at the wrong end of the performance spectrum instead of having players at their peaks earning the biggest money. When people try to point this out plenty of "experts" love to laugh - how they laugh HAHAHAHAAHHA - at the other "idiots" who point out this method is not working - we CANT afford these big name washed up has beens - regardless of whether some idiot with Excel can "make it work" this year or not. It bites the team in the ass REGARDLESS. its precisely because of this continual wasting of resources that we never quite have a proper influx of youth and talent, we're always "just close enough" to appearing to be good to get the fans slavering over picking up crud like Jason Taylor (for a 6th AND A FREAKING 2ND) instead of being patient and actually using the draft, but we'll never break into the serious contender role until we cut the deadweight, come up with a policy to get tough with the cuts when players no longer perform, and stop "being clever" with the cap as it actually just messes the team up. Anyway, we'll see who's right in ten years time if Snyder is still here and we still haven't looked half the organisation the Steelers are... I mean, if you won't take note of the last 20 years, there's no point discussing it with you is it. I just watched America's Game from the Gibbs 1.0 era, and it makes me feel physically sick to think that the team has done pretty much squat since those days. I am not a "hater" or whatever else it is that the 11 year olds on here like to use for anyone who criticises. I love the Redskins, and have since the 80s (I am in the UK so am allowed to have picked them based on them being good, thats what got them on TV over here). Daniel F**N Snyder is NOT THE REDSKINS, Cerrato is NOT THE REDSKINS. F*** both of them, they have made a pigs ear out of a great franchise. I will continue to root for the team, watch them and support them, hope beyond hope they will get there, but I can face the truth. And it's not good. Can we please stop kidding ourselves. Please. I just want someone to make it all stop. I've always hoped that one day I will be able to get a ticket to a game, but I'm going to wait until Snyder and his monkeys are long gone before I give in to that lifelong dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanDan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think DeAngelo Hall is a HUGE player that and every effort should be made to keep him. He made and immediate impact. Carlos Rogers is doing a good job and we should try to keep him happy along with Ron Springs. Randle El just hasn't been the player he started out to be I think there are lots of recievers out there that could do just as wel or better for the amount of money he's getting. If he can be let go good deal. Boy the punter is a big hole we need to fill. I just can't believe there isn't a better punter coming out of college somewhere that has some promise they usually take more than a year to develope they're kicking a bigger ball even though they start practicing with it it's a big change. I'm not so sure that Frost couldn't have worked out he was pretty shakey maybe they saw something that couldn't be corrected. Brandon Jacobs is a beast. the Giants offensive line just kills us and when he gets to the line untouched he rips 3 to 5 yards a carry. Marion Barber is similar, Dallas has a good offensive line and when they get us in a rut Barber runs all over us. If they didn't want to show ole Romo sits to pee off more Barber would do a lot better. I wish we had either him or Jacobs. I don't know about super bowl but were are only a couple quality players away from having a solid playoff team. Dan :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtpop Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Excellent post, I think you are dead on about D Hall too me that is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Why keep Kendall? Because he'd be damn valuable as a reserve. The guy plays all the OL positions, and you'd want an experienced player coming off the bench. That may be ture, but where has it been said that Kendall is looking to get paid as a backup? Please post some evidence. Paying Kendall a healthy Veteran contract to be a quality backup when you don't have a quality starter in front of him doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROSCOUT Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Bulldog, everything you posted is what we have all been discussing for months now. In fact EVERYTHING that you mentioned are things which we have all seen and pointed out in our meetings here on this board, some things we have talked about for years. Unfortunately, Danny and Vinnie do not show up for our meetings, so they are unaware of our deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never4get#21 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I agree with you. We are in a situation where do you trust in the players we have to lead us into the playoffs?? OR Is it time to rebuild? 1. Dallas Cowpukes are actively pursuing Ray Lewis and firmly believes they are SB caliber. 2. Iggles and Giants are looking at Boulden. Imagine Plax/Bould or Jack/Boulden. Giants were SB champs and the Iggles made a solid run. We have many holes as you've stated and with the stupid FO decisions to keep a SS or JT or MW...we are not going to get younger and we wont improve. Are the Skins as close as the other teams in the NFC East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryGreenMonk Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm sure there are some that will still want to argue consistancy... but I agree with the OP. There's no point in trying to stay consistantly sucky. This team needs a major overhaul, including dumping just about every player over the age of 30. Dump list... Springs Kendall Randel El Taylor Carter (if he wasn't good by now.. he ain't gonna be) Jansen Trade those you can, dump those you can't. Get some hungry youth on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAARedskin Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nice thread, but a real play-making QB is what the Skins need the most. A winner at QB makes many "bad things" about a team go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nice thread, but a real play-making QB is what the Skins need the most. A winner at QB makes many "bad things" about a team go away. That does. But why waste time with older talent that isn't improving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Its easy to agree with Bulldog ... but he does not go far enough ... the Skins have also chronically devalued other positions primarily QB, WR, OLB and KR ... rationalizing that the incumbents are "adequate enough." Until these positions rae manned by NFL-calber players capable of "production" the Skins will remain boring also-rans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 That may be ture, but where has it been said that Kendall is looking to get paid as a backup? Please post some evidence. Paying Kendall a healthy Veteran contract to be a quality backup when you don't have a quality starter in front of him doesn't make sense. Who is going to pay a 35 year old guard who has to sit out one day a week a starter level salary? No matter where he goes, he's probably going to at least start off as the backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Its easy to agree with Bulldog ... but he does not go far enough ... the Skins have also chronically devalued other positions primarily QB, WR, OLB and KR ... rationalizing that the incumbents are "adequate enough." Until these positions rae manned by NFL-calber players capable of "production" the Skins will remain boring also-rans. How have the Skins devalued QB, WR and OLB when they have spend a lot in money and draft picks on all of those positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 They have spent extraordinary $$$ or time filling these positions with players whom were hoped to be better than they were/are ... thats how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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