Forehead Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 On top of that his study habits have been in question according to coaches. Get what you can while you can. Great anonymous quote. According to "some coaches" huh? Where's your source on that, because it sounds to me like you're pulling things out of your ass now. I would like Rogers to intercept more passes, but the fact is that he locks down his side of the field pretty consistently. Trading him may not be as bad as trading Champ Bailey, but it's a similar mistake. Good CB's, in my opinion, are some of the hardest positions to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 He was thrown at 92 freeking times. 92. Yes, this is true, but it makes his success rate all the more impressive. I'd venture to say that if the other corners were thrown to as much, their respective success rates wouldn't be as high as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 I would like Rogers to intercept more passes, but the fact is that he locks down his side of the field pretty consistently. Trading him may not be as bad as trading Champ Bailey, but it's a similar mistake. Good CB's, in my opinion, are some of the hardest positions to fill. I think the only thing keeping Carlos from almost unanimously being regarded as elite is the fact that he bricks so many INTs. If he instead made those INTs, he wouldn't be thrown to as much. It's also a pertinent parallel you draw between Carlos and Champ. So often I hear fans beating the build-through-the-draft drum, but when we do and get ourselves a good player, people want to trade him away; for a low-second to high-third round pick. It's even more senseless considering the fact that it would cost us upwards of $1.5M to do so. And, you're right, corners are a difficult position to fill and especially in our case, prove vital to what we do defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Boo. Hiss. Rogers got benched because he sucked. The Skins will be fine with Hall and Springs for 1 game, then Hall and Smoot for the rest. Possibly Smoot and Tryon based on Hall's satisfaction. This couldnt be more incorrect. Thank the lord you make no football decisions for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 This couldnt be more incorrect. Thank the lord you make no football decisions for this team. Hope that your sarcasm detector has an extended warranty, bro . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 As I mentioned in another thread, his numbers may very well be irrelevant. His impact on the field, as it relates to these numbers, is hardly irrelevant when assessing Carlos' worth to this team. We're talking about a guy who waited until he had two years left on his contract to start studying game film. I imagine any internal debate at Redskins Park about Rogers future has to do with his work habits' date=' and if they feel he would continue them with a new deal.[/quote']Vinny and co. will probably look at his off-the-field work habits in tandem with his on-the-field contributions. They'll do this, I'm sure, with the notion that corners, at the NFL level, take a little while to develop, at the fore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Check out his salary cap info in this thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=279294 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Please show me a game where this has happened. I'm curious. Ravens & Bengals... back to back games he got torched this year. That's why he was benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Ravens & Bengals... back to back games he got torched this year. That's why he was benched. I'll admit this play tapered-off in the fourth quarter of the season; I suspect something was brewing behind the scenes, perhaps a growing disconnect between he and Jerry Gray. But that shouldn't and won't undo what was otherwise a very strong season from Carlos, coming off of major knee surgery no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you were to obtain insight into the future and learned that these are the best stats that Carlos Rogers will ever put up, would your opinion to keep Rogers remain the same? With that information in mind, would you trade him for a 2nd round pick? If they trade Rogers, I would suspect that SOMEONE in the FO feels as if Rogers is currently overachieving. The idea doesnt seem impossible. This time last year you people would've traded him for a 5th in a heartbeat. For the record, I'd prefer to keep Rogers. However, I'm not good at getting rid of players.. I make friends for life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He's become an excellent cover corner. He sticks with his guy, he breaks up passes and he's an excellent tackler/run supporter. The problem is, he's SOOO terrible at catching the ball. Because of this, he doesn't change games for you. Someone who can't cover as well but will hold onto the game changing pick 6 Rothlesberger tried to toss him would be more valuable to us than him. Today's NFL is about big plays, he doesn't make them. As good as he is, much as I've grown to like him as a player, he's not worth the money he'll want because he just can't make the big play. He's dropped more pick 6s in his career than anyone I can remember. It seems like he drops picks every week. He could be so good if he could just learn to catch the ****ing ball, ugh, it's so frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 One trend that none of you are looking at: Look at how many times he was thrown at. Wow! Ya' think the offensive coordinator from the opposing team is worried that he'll "pick" the quarterback? Nope. Bye bye if he wants too much money. Welcome back if he'll take a reasonable contract. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Someone who can't cover as well but will hold onto the game changing pick 6 Rothlesberger tried to toss him would be more valuable to us than him. Someone who can't cover as well might not have even been in the position to get their hands on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 this just in carlos rogers haters don't know football just because the guy has bricks for hands doesn't mean he's not a great cover corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 You do realize that in your attempt to support your opinion that Carlos Rogers is a good corner and shouldnt be traded you are actually doing the opposite. I dont understand why you Rogers supporters cant get it through your heads that hes not even close to an elite cover CB. He was thrown at 92 freeking times. 92. The only other CB of that group with that kind of pass attempts is Nick Harper who is known as a good cover 2 tackling CB, but bad in coverage. Not only is this a result of Los playing 7 yards off the reciever and giving up 3, 4 and 5 yard gains because he is a great tackler but poor in coverage, but also due to the fact that opposing qb's are not scared of him. They can risk fitting a pass into a tight space for a 4 yard gain because they know the worst thing that is gonna happen is an incomplete pass. After doing this a couple times they then hit Rogers with a double move and bam, touchdown. Rogers belongs in a primarily cover 2 scheme defense. Get over it. I understand we all want homegrown talent but damn get off the boys ****. And at some point guys like Asomougha were targeted a lot too. Then opponents stopped targeting them as much the next season. It's one if the signs of a CB's transition from good to great. The sad thing is, you're too busy hating on a player and trying to get everyone else to hate along with you to realize that claiming someone isn't good because they were targeted a lot is stupid as hell when that person had similar success rates to top tier CBs who were targeted much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilskinzfan47 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hall and Rogers are "must keeps". Springs gets paid to nurse injuries.And Smoot has never been that good.Why he came back for a 2nd term baffled me.But i guess we had a void to fill cause Springs was hurt. Rogers will never wear a gold jacket but neither will 95% of the NFL either.It doesn't mean he's not a damn good corner. However i do agree with some of the haters too.92 attempts does show he's not a threat.But its because he's got stone hands.A qb is willing to take a chance in his direction cause at worst,it'll be incomplete. But if he can learn to soften them hands up and start catching 1/2 of those drops,the haters would hide quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Ravens & Bengals... back to back games he got torched this year. That's why he was benched. He got beat deep once in the Bengals game. He did not get torched in the Ravens game. That was a 20 yrd pass first of all. Second of all, do you remember the drive that came on? The Ravens had just pounded the ball 12-14 times straight down the field. They then caught us off guard with the play action pass. The safety help over the top was missing as well. Circumstances and the safety missing the assignment means they caught the D off guard as a whole. Also, I guess Mountain Mama Jama must have missed the articles this year discussing Rogers study habits....as he stayed late after practice to watch film on the receivers he would cover. And no not because next year is his contract year. He probably figured out what it takes to succeed in the NFL at the position. It probably also had to do with coming back from the knee injury and trying the get any advantage he could. I can't wait to see what people say when Hall gets burned consistently next year like he did twice in one drive against Desean Jackson. Only most WRs will make you pay by actually catching the ball. Then Shawn Springs will probably pull a muscle trying to recover the ground Hall gives up and will miss half the season. If they get rid of Rogers...I'll pour out a toast to out great FO for turning our 1 strength into a weakness next season:refill: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He was thrown at 92 freeking times. 92. Anytime a #1 CB goes down and is replaced by the #2, the opposing offensive coordinator is going to try to exploit this matchup. Do you not remember Springs going out the first game in Dallas and Carlos stepping up and stopping TO 3 times in a row to force a punt? Out of the top 10 passing teams in the NFL the Redskins played 6 games against them (Philly and Dallas twice). Opposing teams targeted Carlos Rogers because they thought it was a mismatch. They were right that he isn't a great threat to take the ball away but as the success rate has shown, he stopped the play many more times than he allowed it. Our scheme is mostly man-to-man coverage, Shawn Springs said it himself that that majority of interceptions come from zone coverage (and tipped balls). DeAngello Hall had a few picks for us, but no one has put up impressive interception numbers for us since Springs' first season in Washington. Sean Taylor was the only one getting close to a truly dominant season before he was taken. Rogers was targeted so much because he was up against the opponents #1 reciever most of the season. Whether its Fred Smoot or Deion Sanders team throw to their #1 when they need plays. Carlos Rogers stopped them. I agree that his play did cool off towards the end of the summer. Is it possible this was from his ACL injury? Is it possible that while other players were conditioning in the offseason and preseason Carlos was stuck rehabbing? Did the same exact thing not happen to Rocky McIntosh? Rocky was pulled from games late in the season as well because his knee was not holding up. Why is it so unreasonable to believe the reason Rogers was limited late in the season was because his knee was flaring up? IMO Carlos Rogers is our best defensive player. Trading him away would be a huge step in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorebd82 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 This is the ideal time to sign Rogers to a long term deal. Same thing with Hall. Both of them have been very productive, but have warts so we can get them cheaper then they'll be next off-season. Hall has the Oakland wart. Los has issues holding onto the ball, but that is completely mental. Outside of QB, corner is one of the positions where confidence is most important to success. Nothing would give more confidence to Carlos than a new contract from his team. Lock the two of them down and have the best secondary in the league for the next 5 years (Hall, Rogers, Landry, Horton). I'd rather sign Rogers now for $30-40 million than give him a Clements deal when he has a breakout contract year. Same thing for Campbell. Lock him up before he has a breakout year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGREENHULK Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 All I know Rogers must have a good work ethic ..the guy came back from an ACL tear and was ready for trainning camp....I don't care who you are that is really putting in some work. We need both Rogers and Hall in there next year. Smoot has lost a couple of steps and Springs couldn't stay healhly enough to stay on the field...and the team is willing to release Marcus Washington for the same thing...inability to stay healthy and on the field....Maybe we can keep #53 or #27 can either of them kick a FG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfor4 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He does get targeted alot,but maybe thats because of the 10 yard cushion he gives to the opponents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He got beat deep once in the Bengals game. He did not get torched in the Ravens game. That was a 20 yrd pass first of all. Second of all, do you remember the drive that came on? The Ravens had just pounded the ball 12-14 times straight down the field. They then caught us off guard with the play action pass. The safety help over the top was missing as well. Circumstances and the safety missing the assignment means they caught the D off guard as a whole. So you basically are saying he didn't get torched in the Ravens game, then basically make an excuse for why he got torched... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 And at some point guys like Asomougha were targeted a lot too. Then opponents stopped targeting them as much the next season. It's one if the signs of a CB's transition from good to great. The sad thing is, you're too busy hating on a player and trying to get everyone else to hate along with you to realize that claiming someone isn't good because they were targeted a lot is stupid as hell when that person had similar success rates to top tier CBs who were targeted much less. One of the most frustrating things on this board is that people would rather be right about a player being a failure than see him succeed. I see it about Campbell, Portis, Moss, and Rogers, and I saw it about Taylor. Some people have their heads so far up their own asses that they forget that the rest of us are trying to see the team win and would gladly do so with the taste of crow still on our mouths. Rogers flat out sucked in 2005 and 2006. He was awful in every way possible. I hated the guy and thought that he was a waste of a roster spot. Then, against the Eagles, something clicked and he turned it around. Ever since then, I've gladly admitted that I was totally wrong, and I wish that people would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 BTW, the data shows Rogers was "charted" as being thrown at 92 times... Our 3 other CBs combined for 114... It's also interesting to note that as a team, we were only thrown at 512 times. 40% of our opponents passes went in the direction of a CB and about 40% of the time that CB was Carlos Rogers. It should be also noted that Right-handed QBs usually have to throw across their body to throw at Carlos Rogers. This means a slower release and a QB has to be more deliberate when throwing in his direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hall and Rogers are "must keeps".Springs gets paid to nurse injuries.And Smoot has never been that good.Why he came back for a 2nd term baffled me.But i guess we had a void to fill cause Springs was hurt. Rogers will never wear a gold jacket but neither will 95% of the NFL either.It doesn't mean he's not a damn good corner. However i do agree with some of the haters too.92 attempts does show he's not a threat.But its because he's got stone hands.A qb is willing to take a chance in his direction cause at worst,it'll be incomplete. But if he can learn to soften them hands up and start catching 1/2 of those drops,the haters would hide quick. No, I agree, he's a very, very good player. But he's not going to make the game changing play. Unfortunately, that's the difference between top level corner money and less money. If you're going to tie as much money up in a CB as he will likely want, he should be a game changer. He had a great year, was shut down much of the time. Stuck with receivers everywhere and batted down a good deal of passes. But he also invited other teams to take chances because he never made them pay. Honestly we'd be arguing whether or not he was the best corner in the game if he could catch the ball. He should've had at least 3-5 TDs off picks last year alone. Unfortunately, that's such a huge part of what's needed from a CB that it's hard to justify paying him big money, especially if Hall is going to get big money, too. Possibly the even bigger factor is we don't have many draft picks and he is, realistically, our one and only tradeable asset. We've got a lot of work to do on the lines, a strong enough secondary without Carlos and too few picks. As much as I would like to see Carlos stay, we can't tie up that much money in CBs with him and Hall so which is the better decision long term? Get the last year out of his rookie deal and let him walk or trade him now and get a 2nd rounder back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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