bulldog Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 For all those that have been going back and forth on who the Redskins have that are top echelon playmakers, I hope everyone took a full line view of Larry Fitzgerald in yesterday's playoff game and what he was able to do against the Panthers without Anquan Boldin on the other side. The speed, physical size and athleticism that Fitzgerald displays is precisely what the Redskins have been missing for a long time. This is the type of player that IS worth the $15-$20M bonus. He, rather than Roy Williams, is a WR worth a #1, #3 and #6 in trade (sorry Jerry Jones). When we have the discussion of what Moss provides here, what Randle El provides here or what Thomas or Kelly may provide here in the future, this is the standard we need to keep in mind. This is what a true playmaker looks like, not merely a guy that periodically makes a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Bingo. We have 1 playmaker on our team and that is sadly DeAngelo Hall, which we brought in midseason. Laron Landry is not a playmaker, hes a bounty hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINchiefer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 For all those that have been going back and forth on who the Redskins have that are top echelon playmakers, I hope everyone took a full line view of Larry Fitzgerald in yesterday's playoff game and what he was able to do against the Panthers without Anquan Boldin on the other side.The speed, physical size and athleticism that Fitzgerald displays is precisely what the Redskins have been missing for a long time. This is the type of player that IS worth the $15-$20M bonus. He, rather than Roy Williams, is a WR worth a #1, #3 and #6 in trade (sorry Jerry Jones). When we have the discussion of what Moss provides here, what Randle El provides here or what Thomas or Kelly may provide here in the future, this is the standard we need to keep in mind. This is what a true playmaker looks like, not merely a guy that periodically makes a play. Play calling is always key. We won't be able to do those types of things with no time in the pocket and screen plays being called as the only attempt to get around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINchiefer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Bingo. We have 1 playmaker on our team and that is sadly DeAngelo Hall, which we brought in midseason. Laron Landry is not a playmaker, hes a bounty hunter. LAron will be back next season, he just had to be one of those "Sleepin' Sophmores" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I think the discussion of defensive playmakers is one for another thread. Fitzgerald's performance yesterday is a model for what we are looking for on OFFENSE in a receiver with size who needs to be able to beat man, zone and double coverages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 LAron will be back next season, he just had to be one of those "Sleepin' Sophmores" I don't see how people think Landry played so badly this year or had a "sophomore slump." I saw a guy that missed a few too many tackles but was outstanding in coverage for the most part and made a couple big picks. He wasn't Ed Reed or anything, but he was an above average player and will only get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Landry is learning another position. He didn't come into the NFL to be a free safety, but is athletic enough to make the transition, he just isn't en elite performer at the position. I think Landry would already be a pro bowler if he were starting at strong safety. The idea of re-negotiating Shawn Springs' contract and starting him at free safety is interesting to me. However, the question is would Springs take any pay cut to do so at age 34? Probably not. Then you are back to the issue of guaranteeing additional future dollars to another mid-30's player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Other people more knowledgeable than me can correct me, but I get the impression that Landry did well this year. Not Reed or Polumalu well, but good enough to justify the high draft pick spent on him and good reputation he's earned so far. Liked "bounty hunter not playmaker" :laugh: Landry and Hall and Rogers and Horton (and Smoot) make a great secondary corp. (Vinny you idiot keep them HERE. :mad:) Santana is our playmaker, with Portis carrying the offense and Cooley doing well. (Arguably Fletcher does for our D what CP does for our O) We don't need more playmakers, WE NEED MORE LINEMEN WHERE NEEDED. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Again, I disagree. Moss at 5'10 and 180 has had lingering injury problems/durability issues as well as continuing issues in re getting shut down by the bigger, more physical corners the Redskins face. At 30, I would venture to guess that Moss' best days are behind him as an NFLer. Receivers of his size rarely become more productive AFTER they turn 30. You also have to question whether Moss is the receiver best suited to run the slants and crosses in Zorn's WCO. From what I saw in 2008, Moss was ineffective running the slant pattern because corners were able to muscle him to get inside position and disrupt the completion and/or prevent any RAC yardage if a reception was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMOSS89 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 2009 is on Jason, Devin, Fred and Malcolm. Them and the lines. The fate of whether or not we are a playoff team comes down to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 2009 is on Jason, Devin, Fred and Malcolm. Them and the lines. The fate of whether or not we are a playoff team comes down to them. That's one scary proposition............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I hope your prediction for 2009 is based on some additional talent on the lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINchiefer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Laron started to redeem himself at the end of the season but all throughout the beginning of the season he was just average and maybe less than that at times. It was just a phase though, we should see LL with his full potential next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Again, I disagree. Moss at 5'10 and 180 has had lingering injury problems/durability issues as well as continuing issues in re getting shut down by the bigger, more physical corners the Redskins face. At 30, I would venture to guess that Moss' best days are behind him as an NFLer. Receivers of his size rarely become more productive AFTER they turn 30. You also have to question whether Moss is the receiver best suited to run the slants and crosses in Zorn's WCO. From what I saw in 2008, Moss was ineffective running the slant pattern because corners were able to muscle him to get inside position and disrupt the completion and/or prevent any RAC yardage if a reception was made. Agreed about the clock ticking on him, but I think he's still really good.Agreed about the Zorn WCO not playing to Moss' strengths. Moss still burns CBs when he can run a hitch or cut and KEEP RUNNING DOWNFIELD for a long pass. We just haven't been able to consistantly do that, and we need to even just to keep defenses honest. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I think the fact Zorn wasn't able to install his entire WCO package in the offseason and have the team learn the 'system' in Year 1 was a sign that he wasn't necessarily ready to be a HC. One key element of the WCO that was missing was the participation of the running backs in the passing game. It's not coincidental that guys like Westbrook that play in a WCO end up with the number of receptions they get each season. Betts is a good receiver but was WAY underutilized in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I remember wondering a couple weeks ago where Fitzgerald/Boldin rank among all-time WR combos. I don't think anyone talks about that, and it may seem silly, but I really think they are already worthy of that kind of discussion. I want our focus to be on the lines this off-season. However, if Boldin't contract situatio makes him available (probably unlikely), he's the one guy I would look at. We really can't afford to give up much in draft picks, so it might have to be the rare multi-player NFL trade. If we're really gonna trade Rogers, would he, D. Thomas and Betts be the makings of a package Arizona would be interested in? I have no idea, but it's something I would throw out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 All that is fine and dandy, but the truth is that we have one weapon on our offense as it stands today. I'll say it again, our one weapon is being used in a position where he doesn't belong. He, meaning Moss of course, is a slot receiver and a PR and was drafted that way as a Jet. He is our Leon Washington or Wes Welker (who isn't as explosive), ect... When/If the Redskins can develop their three rookies, then the offense will start to open up and Cooley and Moss will be able to perform. Cooley is a non-factor at this point. I'm just glad Vinny drafted three rookie receivers b/c just like the Giants young receivers, I'm sure they'll be able to contribute and make this offense faaaaaantastic real soon. :paranoid: That's the difference between us and them though. We were forced to draft a bunch of skill players b/c our FO blows and can't put together an effective draft to save their lives. The Giants were forced to start young receivers b/c of an unfortunate circumstance that happened this season. The Skins make personnel decisions out of desperation and that's a quick way to kill your franchise. One of these three rookies has to emerge as a "playmaker" or it's bye bye Vinny. I almost want the Skins to tank so someone who knows how to be a GM can come in here. I know, that's extremely pessimistic of me, but I can't stand watching young talent contribute year in and year out on various teams meanwhile we have zero game-changing-type young talent contributing on our team. Name one player on offense that has contributed as a rookie "playmaker" on this team in the past five years. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 No one is arguing with you, blame vinny.....he sucks bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well, Fitzgerald isn't that fast actually but I get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horton_Predator48 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think the fact Zorn wasn't able to install his entire WCO package in the offseason and have the team learn the 'system' in Year 1 was a sign that he wasn't necessarily ready to be a HC. One key element of the WCO that was missing was the participation of the running backs in the passing game. It's not coincidental that guys like Westbrook that play in a WCO end up with the number of receptions they get each season. Betts is a good receiver but was WAY underutilized in 2008. I agree, Zorn was also using the team he was handed. Being a smart guy he didn't want to change things too much in his first year since this was the team that Joe Gibbs built. I think this offseason and next year, we'll see some changes that will reflect the team's transition to WCO. The way they go about doing that, is going to be the tricky part (draft vs FA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have seen WR's laying out and going high for passes all weekend. I was trying to remember the last time I saw a Skins WR put forth that effort. I think that Fitz has all the intangibles, including talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 No playmakers on the offensive side the ball besides Santana Moss. Moss is hampered by a QB who doesn't like to throw deep and the fact that he doesn't have much help on the other WR spots. Cooley and Portis are the prototypical chain movers, but they aren't game changers. Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly need to provide us the threat that open up things for Moss. We've been looking for this ever since 2005 :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Great talent can overcome mediocre coaching. If we continue to whiff at skill positions, we'll be bad for a long time. BTW, even I knew Kelly's knees were a chronic thing prior to the draft...I wouldn't have touched him. As for Thomas, once you lose your teammates, your days are numbered. Another whiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinzNIrishFan Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Laron started to redeem himself at the end of the season but all throughout the beginning of the season he was just average and maybe less than that at times. It was just a phase though, we should see LL with his full potential next year. It may have taken him a few weeks to wake up from that unfortunate run-in with Brandon Jacobs in week 1, I still cringe when I see that!!......seriously though, I agree, next year is going to be a break out year for Laron...don't forget that he missed all of pre-season, that hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsAllDay34 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Larry Fitz is one guy i wouldnt mind trading our draft for. Despite all our needs. All the QB needs to do is throw it up in the area and LF will come down with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.