redskins59 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Stats don't tell the whole story. Flacco throws deep bombs all the time. How many times has Jason Campbell the dink n dunk machine ever do that? Also, whoever makes the "Jason Campbell is in a new system" excuse has his head in the sand. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are in new systems too. Oh, how about Drew Brees when he went to New Orleans? That was his first year with Sean Payton and he took them to the NFC Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Campbell is a rookie under Zorn. Now you've got it. You must have a beeper that goes off when someone posts something negative about Campbell. Or maybe it's like the Batman spotlight, but instead of a bat symbol it's a big jock strap. Either way, it's a little pathetic. You use the first year in a system to defend Campbell, but then try to say that's not an acceptable argument for anyone OTHER than Campbell. How many years is acceptable? 5? 6? Where's this arbitrary line you just invented? Here's what I really want to know. If Campbell comes out next year and shows nothing, are you going to use just as much energy admitting you were wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Why do people confuse being in the league with starting??? Campbell's been a starter for 2.5 years, but is a "rookie" in terms of learning a completely new system. There's a huge difference between Gibbs' run like crazy style and Zorn's pass happy offense. No one confuses anything. There are two schools to QB development, regarding sitting for a year or two and playing as a rookie. Both have pros and cons, but to pretend "only starting experience" counts is pretty ridiculous. And given that our run/pass ratio wasn't particularly dissimilar to previous years, your last comment isn't really on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Honestly, who had the better team around him?Flacco had a good O-Line, a Turnover creating Defense and a rushing attack that didn't peter out mid-season Jason had a brittle O-Line, with Jansen trying to get him killed, a pass-rush that was anemic at best and Taylor should stick to dancing and a rushing attack that averaged 3.8 YPC in the second half of the season. Bottom Line Ravens O-Line > Redskins O-Line Suggs > Jason tap dancing Taylor Flacco had the better team around him this season and more importantly better lines you're kidding me right?...the ravens are known for many good things....their offense is not one of them. Their O-line isn't that much better than ours.(5 less sacks on the season)we're a push at the WR position, we have advantage in TE and RB spots. They were only 2 spots ahead of us in average starting field position which puts them forward about half a yard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You must have a beeper that goes off when someone posts something negative about Campbell....So TrueAnd then starts insulting people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'Em84 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You are the one who is the idiot who can't even stand behind what he says:"but is a "rookie" in terms of learning a completely new system." Did Brett learn a new system this year - YES. Did Chad learn a new system this year - YES. :dunce: Put this on your head and go just sit next to JC if that makes you smarter. I'd rather have Campbell right now than Favre. Favre threw 22 INTs, and really only had 1 good game. He never threw over 2 TDs (except that 1 6 TD game), and threw more INTs than TDs in 9 games. Not supporting Campbell in this arguement. just supporting him over Favre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 being in a new system isn't nearly as hard as it being your first year in the NFL...Trying to compare the two is comparing apples to oranges. Very true Why is it that when other QB's went to new "systems" they didn't need fans excusing bad play when they saw it as "its a new system". Systems don't usually make the player, but systems can help the player. A guys either good or he's not. Sorry to say this but most of you need to take off the denial glasses and see what kind of QB Jason really is and its not very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Campbell is a rookie under Zorn. Now you've got it. So was Brees under Sean Payton two years ago. Yet that didn't stop him Flacco is in a new system, yet his yards per attempt at 6.9 is higher than Campbell's pathetic 6.4. With crappy receivers, mind you. Matt Ryan too has outperform JC under a new system for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 No one confuses anything. There are two schools to QB development, regarding sitting for a year or two and playing as a rookie. Both have pros and cons, but to pretend "only starting experience" counts is pretty ridiculous.And given that our run/pass ratio wasn't particularly dissimilar to previous years, your last comment isn't really on target. Aren't Cambell supporters the one who always talk about how Collins was only good because he was in the system so long?...He barely started...Funny how Collins can beneit from sitting on the bench, but not Campbell.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Can we please not turn this into another 20 page campbell debate WAAAAAAY too late for that. There will be hyperbole from both sides and enough of it to cover up the actual good discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You can tell Zorn is starting to lose patience with Campbell by his last presser...Campbell will have half a season to show what he has(and i doubt he will) and then we won't have to hear about him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Don't bring up the O-Line to the Campbell Haters, because they'll only ignore it. They also have a hard on for picks, even though it's not an accurate indicator of a gunslinger, i.e Flacco had none in the 1st half or Donovan Mcnabb's number of picks from 2004-2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 This thread is all about defending a Mediocre performance by JC How can you compare Flaco to JC? Flaco > JC......For Performance In LESS TIME And DON't bring up PRICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 JC would actually be a great QB over there. All they ask is that he scores a few points (even field goals), don't turn the ball over and the D will win the game for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Throwback Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Campbell will forever be a "rookie". Stuck on a treadmill not going anywhere fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You must have a beeper that goes off when someone posts something negative about Campbell. Or maybe it's like the Batman spotlight, but instead of a bat symbol it's a big jock strap. Either way, it's a little pathetic. You use the first year in a system to defend Campbell, but then try to say that's not an acceptable argument for anyone OTHER than Campbell. How many years is acceptable? 5? 6? Where's this arbitrary line you just invented?Here's what I really want to know. If Campbell comes out next year and shows nothing, are you going to use just as much energy admitting you were wrong? What gets forgotten most of the time about Jason is he was picked by Gibbs. Our superbowl QB's: Joe T. (Gibbs inherited), Doug Williams (Gibbs forced to play him not his pick), and Rypien (One great season and two ok seasons in a 10+ career). Gibbs came back here and traded for Brunell and we all know how that worked. Gibbs was a man who excelled at matchups and exploiting weakness, not as a QB talent evaluator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonhommelemec Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 i think at year 10, people will still defend campbell saying he needs more time I hope I am wrong, but Campbell wasn't considered a first rounder because he didn' have the "it" factor. I would rather have the intangibles of a Fran Tarkenton the tangibles of a Leaf Ryan. Sure, give Campbell some time. Let Colt, who really appears to have the "it" factor play if Campbell struggles. Maybe even draft Sanchez from USC. Colt reminds me of Dan Marino to a certain extent. Mostly, I am talking about his accuracy and ability to scan the field. If you look at Peyton Manning and compare that to Campbell, You will see a confident Manning and a nervous Campbell. I do think some of his regression is due to the new offensive system. So, let's see what happens next season but give him a short leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You are the one who is the idiot who can't even stand behind what he says:"but is a "rookie" in terms of learning a completely new system." Did Brett learn a new system this year - YES. Did Chad learn a new system this year - YES. :dunce: Put this on your head and go just sit next to JC if that makes you smarter. Chad played in a similar system to what he had in New York this season, so there wasn't a steep learning curve for him to accrue. Let's look at the stats on Favre versus Jason Favre 522 attempts 343 completions 3472 yards 22 TD 22 Picks 65.7% Campbell 506 attempts, 315 completions, 3,245 yards 13 TD 6 Picks 62.3% Statistically ver similar except for TD Passes and Picks, Campbell has a 2-1 TD/ Int ratio, Favre will throw a pick for every TD. Now let's look at QB rating Favre: 81.0 Campbell: 84.3 The problem with a guy like Favre is that ESPN will be all over his jock for being a gunslinger and fun to watch, but he alienated his team this year and personally lost at least 2-3 games for the Jets. Furthermore he collapsed under the pressure of the last three games with 2 TD's and 7 INT's. Yes I know you'll come back and tell me that TD passes are all that matters, however I'd rather have JC with 220 YPG and 1-2 TD a game because that means we're playing with the lead and tearing it up on the ground. Besides take away the Arizona game and Favre has 16 TD and 21 Picks Take away JC's best game and he has 12 TD's to 6 picks. In short I'd rather have a constitant QB who with an O-Line in front of him can make plays when needed and not kill our chances that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsince72 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I knew this thread would pop up today. Here's a fact. When comparing JC and any rookie, you have to realize that you are talking about a 4 year veteran and a guy that was playing college ball not too long ago. There are too many variables to consider when you evaluate a QB's perfomance. Things like Oline protection, WR stock, running game, average field position, and playcalling come into play. None of these are in JC's control. What is in JC's control is accuracy, ability to read defenses, ability to scan the field, knowing when to tuck and run, and not staring down recievers. When you can converge the things under the QB's control and things not under the QB's control and they are all done well, the team will most likely end up in the playoffs. Hence, Baltimore playing today and not us. When I try to evaluate JC, he has gotten better at the things he can control but not to a level where I think he should be. That's just my opinion.(probably shared by many of the "Cult of Colt" frequent flyers) Should JC's accuracy have been better in 2008? yes Should JC no longer be staring down recievers? yes Should JC have a quicker release? yes Does JC put in the time before, during, and after training camp? yes Does he want to win? yes Is his attitude a model one for the Redskins? yes This is why ES seems to be split into. Who wants to bench someone described in the last three questions above? Certainly not me. It's hard not to love JC. His heart is in the right place and many around here feel that the Redskins have actually been a disservice to him as a player. Throwing all those offensive schemes at him and criticizing him when he doesn't deliver. On the other hand, many feel that is something he needs to deal with and it could have happened with any other team. I didn't want to highjack the thread, so as for the OP I think QB's like Flacco and Ryan have an edge over JC. They do the things well that JC does have control over and the things not under their control are a step ahead of us as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnb123 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 The fact that we are comparing favre to JC is stupid on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 JC would actually be a great QB over there. All they ask is that he scores a few points (even field goals), don't turn the ball over and the D will win the game for him. OK if had a decent Kicker we'd probably have won a couple more games, but Suisham as we all know can't hit the broadside of a cruise ship while its docked at 20 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'd rather have Campbell right now than Favre. Favre threw 22 INTs' date=' and really only had 1 good game. He never threw over 2 TDs (except that 1 6 TD game), and threw more INTs than TDs in 9 games. Not supporting Campbell in this arguement. just supporting him over Favre.[/quote'] Favre was terrible down the stretch long before he went to the jets. His play after thanksgiving: 2005: 2 TD’s, 12 ints 2006: 5 TD’s, 11 ints 2007: 6 TD’s, 7 ints 2008: 2 TD's, 9 ints total: 15TD's, 39ints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 OK if had a decent Kicker we'd probably have won a couple more games, but Suisham as we all know can't hit the broadside of a cruise ship while its docked at 20 yards Who cares? All that means is we would have had a draft pick in the 17-20 area... great teams don't rely on kickers to bail out their offense on every possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Favre was terrible down the stretch long before he went to the jets.His play after thanksgiving: 2005: 2 TD’s, 12 ints 2006: 5 TD’s, 11 ints 2007: 6 TD’s, 7 ints 2008: 2 TD's, 9 ints total: 15TD's, 39ints We're in agreement on this at least, I'm all for an open competition, however I think that when the JC can't control become better, the things that he can control will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Chad played in a similar system to what he had in New York this season Why do people keep saying this?!?! Their system is VERY different. The system is similar to what pennington played HIS FIRST YEAR in the NFL, which was what? 9 years ago?...Since then he has been playing in a very different system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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