Zorn Undermined His Own Credibility

[bulldog]

for 8 or 9 weeks all you heard from Zorn is how the players need to 'stay medium' and not show extreme emotions because that clouds judgment and prevents people from learning and improving.

so, after some adversity Zorn blows up with emotion and becomes a basket case in his latest press conference looking like a guy who just lost his puppy.

the trick with the Zen approach is that like Phil Jackson you have to be able to WALK IT for it to be successful.

[ttr77]

Agreed...It's easy to stay 'medium' when you are successful...

[BuryYourDuke]

Is Phil Jackson available?

[bulldog]

while there were limitations on what Zorn could do with the aging OL and some of the injuries, he needed to take a MUCH stronger stand in some instances.

foremost among these was letting Jason Taylor dictate to the team when he was going to play for the first half of the season. obviously injured and less than 100%, he had no business being out on the field and didn't contribute a lick to the Redskins in terms of bottom line production.

if Zorn had forced him to sit for 3-4 weeks he would have been healthy prior to the bye week for the stretch of games that started with Pittsburgh and might have made some plays for the team.

he also needed to sit Jansen down once it became apparent 4 weeks ago that Jon was again hurt and was failing to protect Jason's blind side.

instead he was left in the lineup to play at his own discretion.

Coaches that allow their players to decide when and how they are going to play don't last long in the NFL.

[ThomasRoane]

while there were limitations on what Zorn could do with the aging OL and some of the injuries, he needed to take a MUCH stronger stand in some instances...

...Coaches that allow their players to decide when and how they are going to play don't last long in the NFL.

The one time he tried to take a stance the owner threw him under the bus; by even taking a meeting with Portis!! So you can't put that all on Zorn.

[MustangSteve]

Im curious to see how he will game plan against Philly, and if he has even changed anything about this low scoring offense and this 5 yard shackled and chained playbook.

[mkiller12]

why do so many people on this site have Greg williams sigs with Bring this man back, what for? bring him back to be head coach? have you checked his record as the bills head coach, and how bad the clock management etc was there it? it was worse then Gibbs second time around. Or Do you want him back for defense? because Blatch seems to be doing a fine job, and dont say well the players play harder for williams. They play just as hard for blatch. I guess cause all of a suddon were 7-7 Bring williams back to save the day...... Some of the people on here...

[THE OUTSIDER]

why do so many people on this site have Greg williams sigs with Bring this man back, what for? bring him back to be head coach? have you checked his record as the bills head coach, and how bad the clock management etc was there it? it was worse then Gibbs second time around. Or Do you want him back for defense? because Blatch seems to be doing a fine job, and dont say well the players play harder for williams. They play just as hard for blatch. I guess cause all of a suddon were 7-7 Bring williams back to save the day...... Some of the people on here...

I 100% agree. Yeah, he's doing a great job in Jacksonville.

I don't know if this has ever been brought up but I think a contributing factor in Williams not getting the headcoaching job here in Washington is when he undermined Gibbs by not telling him he was gonna honor ST by only having 10 guys on the field to start the Buffalo game last year. That's just my opinion.

[33]

It's no surprise that a thread has popped up about missing Gibbs.

Anyone interested in leadership should spend a day watching all of Gibbs press conferences. He was steady with his message throughout. Always on point.

Hard to take a guy preaching "medium" serious when he blows up at his kickers on the sideline in front of everyone.

[RocketCitySkins]

It's no surprise that a thread has popped up about missing Gibbs.

Anyone interested in leadership should spend a day watching all of Gibbs press conferences. He was steady with his message throughout. Always on point.

Hard to take a guy preaching "medium" serious when he blows up at his kickers on the sideline in front of everyone.

And the ball boy.

[paloosa]

What a waste of time. Zorn blows up because of frustration and he is criticized for it because he never did it before and teaches patience. People want a Mike Ditka, Dennis Green, Bill Parcells and a Bill Cowher type to coach the team. These guys blow up when things don't go right and they don't care when it happens. Players respect coaches that are former players because they know how it is to play the game but they also will play for them because they want someone to inspire them and who shows that they have your back.

It is also sad for others to say that a player isn't playing because he is dictating when he plays or not is not accurate. That is more of an observation than anything else. Jason Taylor and all these guys that have been hurt are out there because they have proven that they got the job done and will play with a few bumps and bruises. The coaches will ask these players and get the advice of the trainers and doctors if they are able to play. 99% of the players will say yes they can go because they feel they have to play otherwise they will lose their spot and that they would be letting their fellow warriors and teammates down.

It is also sad to see that there are still those who believe that Gregg Williams was the answer to replacing Joe Gibbs. Gregg Williams was given the opportunity and was interviewed 3 times before they made the decision not to hire him as the next HC. They gave him that much of a chance to prove he was the answer. But his past coaching record from Buffalo and his interviews must have been to bad for them to hire him. Then he goes to Jacksonville and he takes a great defense from the year before and makes them worse. It only goes to show you what a bad coach can do with good talent. Look at Norv Turner and the talented San Diego Chargers.

[88Comrade2000]

I think Dan Snyder for the long term interests of this franchise needs to gauge and see if Bill Cowher is interested. That would be the only coach you would fire Zorn for. If Bill wants the job; then say goodbye to Zorn. You then let Bill have control and let him build his team. Bill has a proven track record and is the guy Dan really wants. So you at least gauge the interest.

If not; then Zorn stays but you let Zorn get his own staff. You let Zorn remold the team in his own image. You get a GM in here. Mike Holgrem is interesting. Yes, he had his GM duties stripped from him in Seattle but he was doing everything then. Head coach, president, general manager. Too much to do; which is why Seattle just stripped him to be coach. You can bring in Mike to be GM only and then if Zorn flops in 2009 then Mike could be coach or hire the coach in 2010.

Another possibility if Zorn is back in 2009; see if Ron Wolfe can be lured out of retirement.

Having a Zorn-Cerrato team going into 2009 is unacceptable.

I personally think Jim Zorn isn't cut out to be a head coach. His good start just masked his true weaknesses that has become evident as the season went along. I think the Skins peaked under Jim Zorn at 6-2 and that will be the highlight of Jim's career; whether he comes back or not.

[Metskins]

It's no surprise that a thread has popped up about missing Gibbs.

Anyone interested in leadership should spend a day watching all of Gibbs press conferences. He was steady with his message throughout. Always on point.

Hard to take a guy preaching "medium" serious when he blows up at his kickers on the sideline in front of everyone.

I will take a Jim Zorn press conference any day over the cliche barrage of "fought their guts out", "we're all in this together", "did I mention they fought their guts out", "did you know that we're all in this together?".

His points were steady, but no one believed him! I'll take an honest assessment any time. This team sucks, and Zorn isn't coaching well. What else is there to say?

[SUpartyCommish]

its just mind boggling how the expectations for this season were raised...first it was 4-12 now its 12-4...I always saw this team being 8-8, 9-7...the O-line needs to be overhauled.

[redman]

for 8 or 9 weeks all you heard from Zorn is how the players need to 'stay medium' and not show extreme emotions because that clouds judgment and prevents people from learning and improving.

so, after some adversity Zorn blows up with emotion and becomes a basket case in his latest press conference looking like a guy who just lost his puppy.

the trick with the Zen approach is that like Phil Jackson you have to be able to WALK IT for it to be successful.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

I also think that he's more generally hurt himself by not taking more responsibility for the team's struggles, and therefore not taking heat off of the team. I think we all know that this team simply doesn't have the horses to win right now, but Zorn as a leader needs long ago to have stopped talking about "execution" and started to talk about making the adjustments that put our players in a position to win.

Though a relatively unique case, his mishandling of the situation with Portis (I agree totally with Boswell's take on this) only highlights that the big weak spot in Zorn's game as head coach is his handling of the locker room during bad times.

For all the griping we made about Gibbs' shortcomings this second go-round as a play-caller, game manager and even press conference subject, the fact is that his skills at unifying and managing a lockeroom full of 50+ egos and personalities has always been unmatched. Zorn has a lot to learn in that regard.

[JimmyConway]

for 8 or 9 weeks all you heard from Zorn is how the players need to 'stay medium' and not show extreme emotions because that clouds judgment and prevents people from learning and improving.

so, after some adversity Zorn blows up with emotion and becomes a basket case in his latest press conference looking like a guy who just lost his puppy.

the trick with the Zen approach is that like Phil Jackson you have to be able to WALK IT for it to be successful.

You're absolutely right. Zorn isn't leading by example. It took too long for him to start holding himself accountable. His inexperience in the spotlight is showing. Snyderatto and the FO need to get him some leadership lessons. Get him some one-on-one time with the John Thompsons and Gary Williams' of the world.

[33]

I will take a Jim Zorn press conference any day over the cliche barrage of "fought their guts out", "we're all in this together", "did I mention they fought their guts out", "did you know that we're all in this together?".

His points were steady, but no one believed him! I'll take an honest assessment any time. This team sucks, and Zorn isn't coaching well. What else is there to say?

The PC does nothing for a fan but give you a window into the leadership style of the HC.

The cliches aren't meaningful, it's the message behind them that matters. You can be sure the players believed in Gibbs, just look at their December record over his second tenure.

[TheLongshot]

while there were limitations on what Zorn could do with the aging OL and some of the injuries, he needed to take a MUCH stronger stand in some instances.

foremost among these was letting Jason Taylor dictate to the team when he was going to play for the first half of the season. obviously injured and less than 100%, he had no business being out on the field and didn't contribute a lick to the Redskins in terms of bottom line production.

if Zorn had forced him to sit for 3-4 weeks he would have been healthy prior to the bye week for the stretch of games that started with Pittsburgh and might have made some plays for the team.

he also needed to sit Jansen down once it became apparent 4 weeks ago that Jon was again hurt and was failing to protect Jason's blind side.

instead he was left in the lineup to play at his own discretion.

Coaches that allow their players to decide when and how they are going to play don't last long in the NFL.

But players have to be the ultimate decider about whether or not they can go, because they are the only ones that can say for sure that their bodies are well enough to go.

Many players play while not being 100% throughout the league. Taylor is a good example of that. He's been playing through all sorts of injuries for years. By your logic, Portis should have been sat by the coach, even tho Portis felt well enough to go. Even when playing hurt, he was still very productive out there.

I don't know what you are talking about with Jansen. He wasn't hurt, he's just not a very good pass protector anymore. Zorn knew the tradeoff with him in there and decided to go with the stronger run blocker.

[westcoasthog]

Is Phil Jackson available?

I was thinking the same thing! A good OC a good DC and Phil as HC...IO bet he'd do better than Spurrier!

[DCsportsfan53]

its just mind boggling how the expectations for this season were raised...first it was 4-12 now its 12-4...I always saw this team being 8-8, 9-7...the O-line needs to be overhauled.

Bingo.

[Metskins]

The PC does nothing for a fan but give you a window into the leadership style of the HC.

The cliches aren't meaningful, it's the message behind them that matters. You can be sure the players believed in Gibbs, just look at their December record over his second tenure.

So they didn't believe him in October of November?

I'm sure that having faith in a HOF coach helps a TON when things are bad. Is that what it takes to get this team to play well? If so, then we are in trouble.

[33]

Though a relatively unique case, his mishandling of the situation with Portis (I agree totally with Boswell's take on this) only highlights that the big weak spot in Zorn's game as head coach is his handling of the locker room during bad times.

Thanks for bringing up the Boswell piece. I just read it and I couldn't agree more.

It's fair to not want to compare Zorn to Gibbs, but people need to also be aware that Gibbs did leave some blueprints of how to lead this group and Zorn paid absolutely no attention.

For all the talk of scheme, you get the impression he thinks games are won by scheme.

[texasthunder]

I was thinking the same thing! A good OC a good DC and Phil as HC...IO bet he'd do better than Spurrier!

Cool idea, then we can run a 3-2 zone press on defense.

[ronhobie]

I know that this might not be the right thread to post this but RDSKN2000 has already said it. Why not lure Ron Wolf out of retirement and hire him as the GM? He took the Green Bay Packers from doormats to super bowl champs. It's going to take a proven football-minded GM to turn the Redskins around. Look what Parcells has done at Miami in less than a year. The question here should not be so much about Zorn but about getting a quality GM that will give any Redskin coach the tools to win.

[pocampo]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=255927

I said this way back in Aug. Zorn just won't change. Now we all know something is going on in the locker room. But we can't say for sure. But basic play calling, Is something that we know for sure. Its on the field for all of us to see. We have been talking about it since Aug. Read what's on it. It is some good reading!!!!