Building a Great Defense (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[Spartacus87]

I hate the zone blitz scheme we run. For one thing, we don't ever have a blitzer running free to the QB. Seems like our blitzer always gets picked up. Two, we are NOT a good zone team. We suck at zone and are better man to man. Without #1, #2 gets burned alot. I'd rather us play a press blitz scheme where our defenders don't give the WR's room and the QB time to pass.

Exactly. We suck at the zone blitz. Just don't have fast enough guys for it. Rocky, Landry, and maybe Horton are the only ones that can actually get to the QB.

Of course, it'd help if our DTs didn't get blocked 1-on-1 as well.

[Spartacus87]

The one complaint people always have is we don't get after the QB. That's part scheme and part personnel. We don't have anyone truly capable of doing it on the line. The same time, I'm sure our scheme keeps guys at "home" sometimes so as to no overrun plays.

The real difference between Pittsburgh's and Baltimore's D's when compared to ours? Attitude.

For sure.

Sean Taylor was the last player we had that really had that kind of old-school, punch you in your mouth attitude. Landry showed glimpses of it last year but hasn't this year.

With the Ravens and Steelers, you can count on their defense providing a couple big plays a game, as well at least one big hit a game. Teams literally fear going on the field against them, receivers have to keep their heads on a swivel and QBs have to have eyes in the back of their heads.

Teams don't beat those defenses when they win, they survive them. We don't have that kind of mentality at all. And really, that starts up front at the line of scrimmage, with a tough d-line bringing it every play.

[Siven]

The one complaint people always have is we don't get after the QB. That's part scheme and part personnel. We don't have anyone truly capable of doing it on the line. The same time, I'm sure our scheme keeps guys at "home" sometimes so as to no overrun plays.

The real difference between Pittsburgh's and Baltimore's D's when compared to ours? Attitude.

and just pure nastiness in the middle of their line.

[Skins2Win33]

This is a statement that gets my 100% approval rating. We have one of the best, if not the best secondary in the league. We just need some rush and run stuffing up the middle, and you will see Taylor and Carter's numbers improve dramaticly and also turnovers as well.

We don't need a change in scheme.

We need more talent. Especially at DT and OLB.

[BG]

The one complaint people always have is we don't get after the QB. That's part scheme and part personnel. We don't have anyone truly capable of doing it on the line. The same time, I'm sure our scheme keeps guys at "home" sometimes so as to no overrun plays.

The real difference between Pittsburgh's and Baltimore's D's when compared to ours? Attitude.

Exactly. Just because you run a 3-4 doesn't immediately mean you go nuts and blow up offenses and QB's. Giants run a 4-3 and add some interesting wrinkles.

Blache deserves a lot of credit for squeezing the numbers that he's gotten out of this unit, but we need push up front. We have no depth at DE and serviceable lineman that only take up blockers for a short period. Our stellar LB play allows us to be solid against the run, but until we can get interior lineman to get push and collapse the pocket along with some depth at DE, we will continue to let QB's tear us apart.

[JimmyConway]

Yeah, agree. If only the Skins had a D that was consistent, I don't know maybe ranked top ten in 4 out of the last 5 years. Wait, yes, we have that! I am not minimizing the thread, I like the Steelers approach and overriding point here about being prudent and building from within.

But the problem on this team 5 years in a row is offense! Yes it would be great if the D instead of ranked 5th was ranked 1st and made more plays but its not as if teams are lighting up the scoreboard against the Skins.

Actually the D hasn't been in the top five the past five years. We were actaully 31st in 06' in YPG but your overall point is right. However the D could always use younger, quicker, stronger, hungrier ball-hawks that force more TOs and create more pressure in the backfield. 1 D/ST touchdown all year isn't going to cut it.

[SoCalSkins]

We don't need a change in scheme.

We need more talent. Especially at DT and OLB.

Disagree on this one. While talent is always a requirement, so is the guy running the scheme. We had one of the best football minds in GW and let him walk. He is 5 years younger than Jim Zorn as well. I don't know how much longer Blache will coach or how willing he is to adapt his scheme.

Retaining GW would have set us up for long term success on Defense. The guy is a teacher and adapts his schemes well. The changes he made from 2006 to 2007 were impressive. Everyone calls him an ego maniac, but he made fundamental changes to his coverage schemes and eliminated big plays by the other team. His guys played hard for him and no one questioned the toughness of our D.

[Spartacus87]

Disagree on this one. While talent is always a requirement, so is the guy running the scheme. We had one of the best football minds in GW and let him walk. He is 5 years younger than Jim Zorn as well. I don't know how much longer Blache will coach or how willing he is to adapt his scheme.

Retaining GW would have set us up for long term success on Defense. The guy is a teacher and adapts his schemes well. The changes he made from 2006 to 2007 were impressive. Everyone calls him an ego maniac, but he made fundamental changes to his coverage schemes and eliminated big plays by the other team. His guys played hard for him and no one questioned the toughness of our D.

To be fair, those changes in the D were brought about by Blache sitting him down and getting him to lighten up on the complexity of the schemes and make it more simple for players to just go out and play. It wasn't like Williams thought of it himself.

[Phat Hog]

Really good article!

[Laxpunk2006]

Because the defense never gets pressure/sacks and with us playing so many close games, the defense never makes a game changing play like a sack, INT or fumble. We're good at 3 and outs, but we just aren't a turnover type defense.

We also very rarely give up the big play. It really doesn't matter how many turnovers our defense causes if our offense and special teams can't take advantage and put points on the board.

It is also rare that we play with any kind of sizable lead. If our offense could ever put up a two score lead we could see a lot more of our guys pinning their ears back and getting after the quarterback. In these tight games we're playing we allow the opposition the choice to continue running in the third and fourth quarter. If we could force them into some kind of urgency to score quickly we could focus on getting after the QB rather than playing the run first.

Offense and defense go hand in hand. If you want to see our defense become even better give them an offense that can help them out and give them something to play for.

[Isifhan]

No wonder James Harrison playing like a wild man he's undrafted this guy is a beast he certainly playing a chip on his shoulder just saying to all the teams you didn't draft me. Yeah, The Redskins can learn from this but most likely they won't . They will continue to go after names that have seen their last days.

You act as if we never bring in undrafted rookies.

[Skinsinparadise]

Actually the D hasn't been in the top five the past five years. We were actaully 31st in 06' in YPG but your overall point is right. However the D could always use younger, quicker, stronger, hungrier ball-hawks that force more TOs and create more pressure in the backfield. 1 D/ST touchdown all year isn't going to cut it.

True, it hasn't been top 5 and I didn't say top 5 I said top 10. This year at this moment it's number 5.

No question, we can use younger players but is defense really the main problem? We can add a stud pass rusher, but if they are going to score 10 points or so a game, it will still be tough to be a legit playoff team.

IMO turning this good defense into an elite defense isn't what will turn this team around but upgrading the offense

[Spartacus87]

True, it hasn't been top 5 and I didn't say top 5 I said top 10. This year at this moment it's number 5.

No question, we can use younger players but is defense really the main problem? We can add a stud pass rusher, but if they are going to score 10 points or so a game, it will still be tough to be a legit playoff team.

IMO turning this good defense into an elite defense isn't what will turn this team around but upgrading the offense

Well, it goes both ways.

We get a better, more aggressive d-line, we can in turn create more turnovers, more sacks (and possibly fumbles), and create shorter fields for our offense, while at the same time limiting the points the opposing O scores and putting less pressure on our offense to keep up.

We get a better, younger, stronger o-line, and we can pound the ball all season, protect the QB as long as he needs, and give more time for receivers to get separation, while in turn scoring points and putting pressure on the other team's offense to keep up against our defense.

Right now we're not doing a good job of either, our defense is just playing over their heads in limiting opposing team's points and yards, but not creating nearly enough turnovers to help themselves or the offense.

Personally, I'm in favor of going RT for our pick this year, followed by best DT available in the third round (possibly Ron Brace if he's still there to take on two blockers and help squash the run). Hopefully our o-line next year would then be at the minimum: Samuels, Rinehart, Rabach, Thomas, 1st round RT, with drafting another guard and possibly LT the idea for next year's draft. That is, if we can't solve guard in FA.

[bulldog]

Jason Taylor was just the type of overhyped, aging and soft ballplayer that a team like the Steelers or Ravens would pass up on when available.

Little ole Ryan Clark is still up there starting at safety for the Steelers. Meanwhile, the Redskins let him go because he was too small to play the position and wanted too much money...................

What did he sign for in Pittsburgh? $2M in guaranteed money over 3 years? Less?

What a joke.

The Redskins dumped $8M on Jason Taylor for ONE season and he hasn't done a damn thing except take up space.

[Mr. Grundle]

This highlights the unprecedented failure of this front office. We let Ryan Clark, a perfect fit on our defense, go to the Steelers for peanuts. Why? So we could give millions to Adam Archuletta. When that failed we had to burn another 1st round pick on safety Laron Landry.

See the snowball affect this FO's horrid decisions have on the franchise? Instead of paying Ryan Clark a few million, we spend 4x that much money and a first round pick to replace him.

The way this franchise is run is devastatingly stupid. It actually hurts to think about.

[CHERRYR]

"This defense has been top 5 in the league for what seems like the last 10 years. That doesn’t happen by making big free agent splashes or mortgaging your future…it’s done through solid scouting and sound decision making when it comes to Free Agents and who to keep and who to let go."

But that method isn't nearly as fun for Danny. It won't get you on Sportscenter in March and April.

Hampton - Texas: Round 1 #19

Smith - Div. II Northern Colorado: Round 4

Keisel - BYU: Round 7

Hoke - BYU: UDFA

Kirschke (the old guy with 12 yrs.) - UCLA: UDFA via 49ers, via Lions

Consistent... motors don't stop game in game out... guy they gut check for, Dick LeBeau. Got their moneys worth out of a 1st Round pick, saw the talent in a Div. II DE and the 2 young bulls out of BYU. Does acquiring DL talent get any better then that, from both the up front cap and the results from solid scouting? BTW, Aaron Smith is one of the most consistent DEs in the League... been to the Pro Bowl once in his 10 yrs. This ain't a knock on London Fletcher... obviously his recent venting about the Pro Bowl is how he feels and I think he's a tremendous talent at LB, but I would bet that if Smith had never been selected to come to Honolulu... he wouldn't be venting about it. He just takes the field and does his job... no microphones.

[Ryman of the North]

The 3-4 is a garbage defence for the most part, it has serious flaws in the actual scheme, against even a Decent Running team with a decent mid range passing game it has far too many holes and requires absolute studs at too many spots to be an effective defence. HOWEVER it also has the following advantages.

a-because fewer teams run it, the talent for it is easier to find in later rounds (bigger slower DE'/DT' types who would be too slow to play in a 4-3, big strong space eater DT/NT (these guys are still tough to find unless flawed)but tweener DE/LB types are easier to find later in the draft. With more teams switching to a 3-4 this is changing. THE ONLY GUY WE HAVE WHO WOULD FIT THE 3-4 MOLD IS WASHINGTON AND PERHAPS TAYLOR AS A DE/OLB, 3 years ago maybe Daniels.... Our Dline would be an extremely poor fit as a 3-4 Dline and our undersized LB core would be screwed, LOOK AT ATLANTA A FEW SEASONS BACK WHEN THEY TRIED THE SAME THING. Their best lb had a terrible season, their D dropped rankings and was junk. Building a 3-4 is a process that takes years not one offseason.

b-Because fewer teams run it, its harder to prepare for, it makes blitzes harder to game plan and wreaks havoc against younger inexperienced Qbs especially guys with little experience against it from college as TBH few teams run a 3-4 because it takes time to assemble.

[CHERRYR]

The 3-4 is a garbage defence for the most part, it has serious flaws in the actual scheme, against even a Decent Running team with a decent mid range passing game it has far too many holes and requires absolute studs at too many spots to be an effective defence. HOWEVER it also has the following advantages.

a-because fewer teams run it, the talent for it is easier to find in later rounds (bigger slower DE'/DT' types who would be too slow to play in a 4-3, big strong space eater DT/NT (these guys are still tough to find unless flawed)but tweener DE/LB types are easier to find later in the draft. With more teams switching to a 3-4 this is changing. THE ONLY GUY WE HAVE WHO WOULD FIT THE 3-4 MOLD IS WASHINGTON AND PERHAPS TAYLOR AS A DE/OLB, 3 years ago maybe Daniels.... Our Dline would be an extremely poor fit as a 3-4 Dline and our undersized LB core would be screwed, LOOK AT ATLANTA A FEW SEASONS BACK WHEN THEY TRIED THE SAME THING. Their best lb had a terrible season, their D dropped rankings and was junk. Building a 3-4 is a process that takes years not one offseason.

b-Because fewer teams run it, its harder to prepare for, it makes blitzes harder to game plan and wreaks havoc against younger inexperienced Qbs especially guys with little experience against it from college as TBH few teams run a 3-4 because it takes time to assemble.

I don't know about 'garbage defence'... the guy that runs it certainly knows what the hell he's doing and he does have the studs. The real emphasis on the 3-4 is the 4. Out steps Porter in steps Harrison, they never lost a step. I think this thread is more about the building process. The Steelers run the 3-4 and the Skins run the 4-3, now maybe you're right about the 3-4 being a little easier to find talent for, but you still need the SEVEN to make it work no matter what D you're running.

[NoVaSkins21]

This highlights the unprecedented failure of this front office. We let Ryan Clark, a perfect fit on our defense, go to the Steelers for peanuts. Why? So we could give millions to Adam Archuletta. When that failed we had to burn another 1st round pick on safety Laron Landry.

See the snowball affect this FO's horrid decisions have on the franchise? Instead of paying Ryan Clark a few million, we spend 4x that much money and a first round pick to replace him.

The way this franchise is run is devastatingly stupid. It actually hurts to think about.

Oh it absolutely hurts and sucks to think that this team has just let guys of their own walk to other teams where they've become key contributors. Clark and Antonio Pierce are two glaring examples of this. Imagine if they were still here. This team loves to throw money to free agents that it should invest in their own players. Snyder and his win now philosophy has killed this once great franchise. Players KNOW that they come here to get paid, not to win a championship. The Steelers, unlike the Skins, have made the draft a priority as how to assemble their team. They use free agency to supplement what they already have instead of having it serve as the foundation to building their team.

[Skins PR]

Please don't bring up Pierce or Clark anymore. So depressing. God damn do we suck.

[Spartacus87]

I don't know about 'garbage defence'... the guy that runs it certainly knows what the hell he's doing and he does have the studs. The real emphasis on the 3-4 is the 4. Out steps Porter in steps Harrison, they never lost a step. I think this thread is more about the building process. The Steelers run the 3-4 and the Skins run the 4-3, now maybe you're right about the 3-4 being a little easier to find talent for, but you still need the SEVEN to make it work no matter what D you're running.

Exactly.

And right now, we have about 2.5 of that 7 to make it work. I counted Fletcher and Rocky as 1 each, with .5 for Carter, who could be alright if given just one real DT...maybe throw in another .5 if Taylor didn't spend the whole season with a freak injury and had DT help as well.

Either way, a 2.5 or even 3 out of 7 ain't good, but that's where we stand. Now, if we get a real DT, get rid of Taylor and re-sign and start Demetric Evans at DE, we could have 4.5 or even 5 out of that 7. A lot better with just two simple moves.

[Laron Burgundy]

Yeah, our d isn't a problem really. Heck, if we could actually get to the qb we would probably be the best d in the nfl. We need to learn from a team that built a great offense! Looking at you patriots. Despite losing brady in the first game they are still the 6th ranked offense. With no real stud rb to pick up the slack that says they have a great scheme and a great o-line. I'd say look at the saints too but is there any doubt that if they lost Brees they would be irrevocably screwed?

[Koolblue13]

Montgomery, Golston, Moore, Horton, Blades, Evans. Great drafting in the late rounds that have added starters and depth to a top 10 defense.

Carter, Washington, Griff, London, Hall, Smoot. FA players who aren't payed above their performance of their positions.

High round picks are LL, Rocky, Rogers. All three are young and coming around.

How does anybody say it's drafting style that we don't do? Late picks, the occasional high pick and quality FAs. There has been a few bumps in the road, but to put things in perspective, we are building a D the right way and that is why our team has won as many games as it has the last few years.

[Speake]

You have a good point about late picks recently. But when you have a losing record overall at FedEx and let players like Clark leave only to pay tons for a punt protector Adam Archuleta and release him. Then you have to use the sixth pick on ANOTHER safety. Teams like Pitt dont let talent leave, they build a scheme and defense for years, not single seasons. Cerrato has not dont a good job at building a team. This is football, not baseball you have to have a team working together at all times. With chemistry, veterans players such as Spring and Hall wont run into each other on a gimme INT. The Steelers are model all teams should follow, see Indianapolis.

[Spartacus87]

Montgomery, Golston, Moore, Horton, Blades, Evans. Great drafting in the late rounds that have added starters and depth to a top 10 defense.

Carter, Washington, Griff, London, Hall, Smoot. FA players who aren't payed above their performance of their positions.

High round picks are LL, Rocky, Rogers. All three are young and coming around.

How does anybody say it's drafting style that we don't do? Late picks, the occasional high pick and quality FAs. There has been a few bumps in the road, but to put things in perspective, we are building a D the right way and that is why our team has won as many games as it has the last few years.

Golston isn't that good. Average at best.

Horton, let's face it, was pretty lucky. We even passed on him with Kareem Moore, and Durant Brooks of all people. Montgomery's a solid run stuffer, but that's about it.

The Giants meanwhile, are the kind of team that always drafts a linemen, whether it be o-line or d-line,within the first four rounds, going all the way back to 1999 (except for the 2008 draft, because obviously, they're stacked enough in their lines after a decade of drafting for them). For defense, in 2007, they drafted Jay Alford in the 3rd. In 2006, they drafted Kiwi in the 1st, and Barry Cofield in the 4th. In 2005, they drafted Justin Tuck in the 3rd. In 2004, they got Reggie Torbor in the 4th, and in 2003, they netted William Joseph and Osi in the 1st an 2nd. Not surprisingly, all of those guys played key roles in helping them win the Super Bowl last year, and almost all of them (minus Torbor) make up their nasty d-line now. That means on average, they've spent a 2nd to 3rd round pick on their d-line for 5 out of the last 6 years.

High picks don't cut it, low picks do. Griffin was great in 2004, and ended well in 2005. Since then he's been average, if not worse, hampered by age and injuries. Carter is decent, but he needs help in the middle that he's not getting. Same with Taylor, although he's either gone after this year, or certainly after next year. Outside of Rocky, Rogers, ST, and Landry, we haven't spent anywhere close to a high enough pick on our defense, at least not the essential part.

We've build a great coverage unit that stops the big play, but one that doesn't get turnovers, help the offense out, or make big plays themselves. The Giants meanwhile, have an average secondary with a hellacious front 4 that does everything our defense does and more. We've built our defense completely backwards.