Building a Great Defense (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[BG]

This highlights the unprecedented failure of this front office. We let Ryan Clark, a perfect fit on our defense, go to the Steelers for peanuts. Why? So we could give millions to Adam Archuletta. When that failed we had to burn another 1st round pick on safety Laron Landry.

See the snowball affect this FO's horrid decisions have on the franchise? Instead of paying Ryan Clark a few million, we spend 4x that much money and a first round pick to replace him.

The way this franchise is run is devastatingly stupid. It actually hurts to think about.

Yeah, it really does. Sorry to keep it going but, as cliche as it sounds, the fundamental issue with this FO is there is no long term decision making going on here. It is always "what will get this team better right now"?

We need to be thinking long term here. We need to be getting more production out of our rookies, we need solid, inexpensive FA acquisitions and we need to find away to start stockpiling draft picks.

Until we can do that and do it for several years, and further, we will always be mediocre, if we are lucky.

[BG]

Just to add to that last post, we also need to have a FO that is on the same page as our coaching staff. Not a staff carrying out the wishes or hampered by the philosophy of the FO.

[Warpath11]

As I said many times in this thread I am not suggesting our defense is bad or that we necessarily make the switch to the 3-4. My point was to show how a team develops talent in-house with a great FO structure and function. This approach should be used to build entire teams from the defense to special teams to depth.

[Koolblue13]

You have a good point about late picks recently. But when you have a losing record overall at FedEx and let players like Clark leave only to pay tons for a punt protector Adam Archuleta and release him. Then you have to use the sixth pick on ANOTHER safety. Teams like Pitt dont let talent leave, they build a scheme and defense for years, not single seasons. Cerrato has not dont a good job at building a team. This is football, not baseball you have to have a team working together at all times. With chemistry, veterans players such as Spring and Hall wont run into each other on a gimme INT. The Steelers are model all teams should follow, see Indianapolis.

Pitt doesn't let talent leave? They have made a career out of dumping their "core"players. Who has had a great career with them all the way to retirement? Woodson, Lloyd, Green,Porter? Who?

And Clarke was on the chop block going into last season, he isn't a great must have defender, he is stop gap.

[Koolblue13]

As I said many times in this thread I am not suggesting our defense is bad or that we necessarily make the switch to the 3-4. My point was to show how a team develops talent in-house with a great FO structure and function. This approach should be used to build entire teams from the defense to special teams to depth.

I agree and I was just pointing out, that I think we have done a good job on the D, in the same spirit as the Steelers do, except we hang on to "core" aging vets longer and need a high pick to be spent on the middle of our line and maybe even a OLB.

[Koolblue13]

We've built our defense completely backwards.

That may be true. I think we could use another high pick at LB and certainly at DT/NT, but the rest are okay. I like the way the Giants are built.

Of course, they also took the same exact gambles we have on the O and it just has payed off better for them. The Tackle switching to Guard, young QB finally panning out. So, I think we have taken a similar approach to the Giants, for the most part and I do agree with you.

Short of a top pick OLB and big guy in the middle, I love our Defense.

[Mr. Grundle]

Pitt doesn't let talent leave? They have made a career out of dumping their "core"players. Who has had a great career with them all the way to retirement? Woodson, Lloyd, Green,Porter? Who?

Which is why they always seem to have great young talent and aren't hampered down with overpaid, past-their-prime veterans like we are.

[Spartacus87]

That may be true. I think we could use another high pick at LB and certainly at DT/NT, but the rest are okay. I like the way the Giants are built.

Of course, they also took the same exact gambles we have on the O and it just has payed off better for them. The Tackle switching to Guard, young QB finally panning out. So, I think we have taken a similar approach to the Giants, for the most part and I do agree with you.

Short of a top pick OLB and big guy in the middle, I love our Defense.

They've also spent a lot of high picks on their o-line, cycled in with their d-line picks. When you're working with a lot of 1-3rd round o-line picks, you really only need 4, or even just 3, of them to pan out, and you can feasibly fill in the other two spots in FA (as long as it's not the LT spot).

I like our defense too, because it's really just one hell of an overachieving unit, but I can't love it because of the way it's built, which in turn is exactly why we don't get the turnovers we need. Even if you toss in a 1st or 2nd round pick OLB, that doesn't solve our problems at DT and left DE, which is where great defenses are defined.

Now if we draft a DT this year, draft an OLB and DE next year (both in the first 2-3 rounds), re-sign Hall and Rogers...then you're talking about a starting defense of:

Rogers, Landry, Horton, Hall

Rocky, Fletcher, (1st-3rd round) Draft pick

Carter, Montgomery, (1st-3rd round) Draft pick, (1st-2nd round) Draft pick

Completely possible by 2010, and that's a pretty good, younger defense to help start developing it even more for the future, with continued drafting for depth and potential starters.

I like your sig too- Marty with Cowher, phew, hearing that would be like my best Christmas ever. Even better would be Parcells with Cowher, although that would never happen in this solar system's lifetime.

[Koolblue13]

They've also spent a lot of high picks on their o-line, cycled in with their d-line picks. When you're working with a lot of 1-3rd round o-line picks, you really only need 4, or even just 3, of them to pan out, and you can feasibly fill in the other two spots in FA (as long as it's not the LT spot).

I like our defense too, because it's really just one hell of an overachieving unit, but I can't love it because of the way it's built, which in turn is exactly why we don't get the turnovers we need. Even if you toss in a 1st or 2nd round pick OLB, that doesn't solve our problems at DT and left DE, which is where great defenses are defined.

Now if we draft a DT this year, draft an OLB and DE next year (both in the first 2-3 rounds), re-sign Hall and Rogers...then you're talking about a starting defense of:

Rogers, Landry, Horton, Hall

Rocky, Fletcher, (1st-3rd round) Draft pick

Carter, Montgomery, (1st-3rd round) Draft pick, (1st-2nd round) Draft pick

Completely possible by 2010, and that's a pretty good, younger defense to help start developing it even more for the future, with continued drafting for depth and potential starters.

I like your sig too- Marty with Cowher, phew, hearing that would be like my best Christmas ever. Even better would be Parcells with Cowher, although that would never happen in this solar system's lifetime.

See now, I like Evans. He has stepped in very well this year as the starter. I would like to see what a great NT could do to help his numbers. We know he is good against the run. We also have that rookie Jackson who might be something. Put that with Daniels coming back and Wilson on 3rd and I think DE is better than most give credit for.

If we use our first pick on one of the top LBs this year, I would be very happy. Not my first choice and I like some of the FAs this year, but I would be happy none the less. The same way I was happy(ish) with this past draft (although I only wanted them to draft O line, but it was a weak draft class for them).

This season coming up, there is great talent and young talent at O Line and LB. I am not to familiar with the D Line FAs, but we could use a Vet in the middle, more than a rookie (although we do need one).

This offseason, I really think our D is only about 2 players away from being top 5 again.

The O, there is a lot of ifs, but I would like to see us grab a RT and an interior linemen as well as draft at least one or two young guys.

We do that, we are competitive again. Another year for Zorn and JC to improve and work with our young WR/TE and heck, maybe we are there.

[Ryman of the North]

1-taylor has been injured, hes nowhere near 100% ffs the man had SURGERY and came back way too soon, i think hes good for at least another year or 2 as a pass rush specialist.

2-we are not built for a 3-4 at all, our best bet is to draft a stud Dt and De next year even if they are guys who will need some time, I think we need to start drafting linemen every year as some will not pan out.

3-this team has been built assbackwards I said it a few years ago that Carolina was less talented than us but built more intelligently as they always went line first. great linemen can cover a lot, great dbs dont cover up a bad pass rush.

[Spartacus87]

See now, I like Evans. He has stepped in very well this year as the starter. I would like to see what a great NT could do to help his numbers. We know he is good against the run. We also have that rookie Jackson who might be something. Put that with Daniels coming back and Wilson on 3rd and I think DE is better than most give credit for.

If we use our first pick on one of the top LBs this year, I would be very happy. Not my first choice and I like some of the FAs this year, but I would be happy none the less. The same way I was happy(ish) with this past draft (although I only wanted them to draft O line, but it was a weak draft class for them).

This season coming up, there is great talent and young talent at O Line and LB. I am not to familiar with the D Line FAs, but we could use a Vet in the middle, more than a rookie (although we do need one).

This offseason, I really think our D is only about 2 players away from being top 5 again.

The O, there is a lot of ifs, but I would like to see us grab a RT and an interior linemen as well as draft at least one or two young guys.

We do that, we are competitive again. Another year for Zorn and JC to improve and work with our young WR/TE and heck, maybe we are there.

I agree on Evans and his ability to step in and play. I kind of think that if a Parcells or Marty came in and took over, they'd look to utilize him as the starting DE. For now.

He's good against the run, and actually leads the team in sacks (at 3.5 though), but he's not a long term option. More of a great rotational guy to play at DE and go in at DT for extra pass rush on some downs. Jackson barely sees the field, and I have no idea what happened to Wilson this year.

Daniels is done. He tore his ACL at age 34, when he was already heading downhill anyway. If we even keep him on the roster next year we're just wasting money.

This upcoming draft is pretty deep at o-line, but I really want us to get the best RT available at our pick (probably between 10-15 at this point), and we could get a good player there.

Now if we sign Justin Gross from Carolina as our RT, that means we can take BPA between OLB and DT, but I'd prefer DT there.

If we could get BJ Raji somehow from Boston College, he'd be a HUGE force for us in the middle of our line. He's perfectly suited to play the monster NT role in a 4-3, as he's also got the ability to move down the line and penetrate inside on running plays and blow up the pocket.

Get Gross in FA, draft Raji (or if he's gone, then go best guard available) in the 1st, then vice versa in the 3rd (best guard if we get Raji, or best DT if we get a guard in the 1st). We do that, we instantly upgrade our o-line by leaps and bounds, and we get a corner stone DT for the long term future for us to build our d-line around.

And then I agree, I think if we can make some simple moves like that (while cutting some of the fat on our roster salary wise, i.e. Springs, Taylor, possibly Washington), and get the offense gelling more behind a new line and hopefully a real OC to help Zorn out, we could have some positive things going for us in 2009.

[fire3fighter4]

we should not even be talking about defense. if our offense was half as good as our D we would be leading the wild card race, and battling giants for the division title right now. Our defense is top 10(5 at that), and IS NOT the problem.

[DieselPwr44]

The Redskins have a great defense.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

A great defense could generate pressure and sacks. This defense doesn't do that.

[Spartacus87]

we should not even be talking about defense. if our offense was half as good as our D we would be leading the wild card race, and battling giants for the division title right now. Our defense is top 10(5 at that), and IS NOT the problem.

Yeah, it's top 5 in yards and points allowed, which is great.

But it doesn't create any big plays or get any turnovers. It doesn't give short fields to the offense, or score points.

And that's a huge problem, that stems directly to the d-line.