Campbell vs. E.Manning Statistical Comparison

[McSkin30]

I understand the frustration of each and every Sunday. As a Redskins fan (and Orioles too), the fickle ownership and shortsightedness that come with are a known commodity. I groan with every dropped pass, fumbled ball, weakly hit kickoff, and mind-boggling roster move, but unlike many of you, I don't feel the need to string someone up for every mistake. At the beginning of the season, and for the rational among you, throughout this year, we agreed it would take time. Time for the players to adjust to Zorn, time for Campbell to adjust to the system, time for the fans to adjust to everything new. For those of you bemoaning the current state, yes, it is excruciating to watch, but we can't forsake the forest for the proverbial trees.

So...I decided to use our hated rival up the road as an example. We all remember the calls for Coughlin's head, the outcries of blood vendettas against the Manning family, and the drama that accompanied a premier runningback's public feud with his coach. Well, here are some numbers comparing Manning to our much-discussed QB. As a statistical sidenote, the rush yds/gm and average age of OL are compiled using the top 2-3 RBs and the averaged age of all OLs on the roster. This was an attempt to account for use of different formations, development of younger talent, etc. It is by no means perfect, but here goes...

Year1 Comp% Yds/gm Rtg OLage Rushyds/gm

JC 53.14% 185.9 76.5 28.6 104.81

EM 44.22% 149 55.4 26 106.06

Year2

JC 59.95% 207.7 77.6 30.3 99.81

EM 52.78% 235.1 75.9 27.8 130.1

Year3

JC 62.98% 210.4 85.7 29.3 108.1

EM 57.66% 202.8 77.0 27.0 130.3

08EM 60.28% 209.9 86.4 28.0 123.9

The last (08EM) are this year's numbers.

It's been said that numbers don't lie. What is, perhaps, more appropriate is that numbers don't tell the whole truth. Leadership, for example, is absent from statistics. I am aware of this and am not offering this comparison to say "Yes, if we give JC more time, he will win a Super Bowl in his Xth season." What I am saying is that JC's numbers have consistently been equal to or better than EM's with a universally older line and a weaker running attack.

My conclusions:

As QBs, JC and EM have had similar developmental patterns statistically. The NYG have made a concerted effort to maintain youth at the OL positions, while the Skins have maintained the same core, effectively aging the same group. This not only has a direct effect on the time for pass protection, but also matters a great deal with regard to the running game. As our OL ages, injuries and subs force plays overwhelmingly in one direction. Predictability has been a constantly invoked complaint and it seems obvious why. Maintaining the younger offensive line, the NYG not only give EM more time in the pocket to improve as a passer, but adapt and create different directions of play. Similarly, the success of the varied running attack creates more options for QB. I know I'm preaching basic football to the choir, but the NYG FO stood strong in the face of its ugly, menacing fans and kept both Coughlin and Manning on board and gave the support. Were we to follow a similar strategy of reducing the average age of our OL and vary our running attack more than just playing LB when CP is hurt/tired/feuding, we might see the leadership qualities and improved play that didn't come out until the 2nd half of the NYG season last year.

[eljeasel]

you might say he is a capable qb and as we grow stronger as a team/get comfortable without blowing up everything, we could have a strong team in DC

[RedlightG20]

Stats are trivial at this point. The way each game plays out dictates how much and how far a QB must throw the ball. For example, if the team is losing, they will want to throw the ball farther and thus, have less of a completion percentage.

I think a true comparison comes down to this: If you are down 4 points and have the ball on your 20 yard line at the two-minute warning, who would you rather have under center: Campbell or Manning?

[McSkin30]

If you are down 4 points and have the ball on your 20 yard line at the two-minute warning, who would you rather have under center: Campbell or Manning?

To which I would ask, are we talking about Campbell vs. Manning in his 3rd year? If that's the case: Campbell.

I might also ask, in the same situation, who would you rather have in front of you: a line full of 27 year olds or a line full of 31 year olds?

[bubba9497]

save any logical argument about Campbell

the head hunters blame Campbell, so no matter what, it is all his fault... and all logical arguments, become lame excuses, and just ignored (also keeps them from having to try and dispute them)

[simspro4]

I can only say... Yeah Campbell does have better % numbers then some

QB in this league in past 3 years, but Campbell lacks finding a way to win

games at the end... Or lacking comeback from behind games... Some QBs

have very bad % numbers and still find a way to win games... Of course

it not all JC fault, but he is suppose to be the leader...

[SoCalSkins]

Eli has led his team into the post season 4 straight years.

[Geoff_K]

what i look for is that desire to make a completion .. that shovel pass when things fall apart .. that scramble to save a sack and make it a 1 yard run for a tackle ....

i dont see the "need to make it" when JC plays ... i dont wish to wait any longer ... he's had time and hasnt showed it often enough .... let's try someone else .... and it doesnt matter to me as long as it is NOT an old, nearly done, vet QB

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

To which I would ask, are we talking about Campbell vs. Manning in his 3rd year? If that's the case: Campbell.

I might also ask, in the same situation, who would you rather have in front of you: a line full of 27 year olds or a line full of 31 year olds?

My answer:

Eli's O-line over ours.

You are kidding right? You think Eli could make our offense better? He'd end up with at least 2-3 INTs every week with the lack of protection he'd have here.

[Zguy28]

I'm sorry, but I just have to say:

>

Its just the way it is. You can quote stats all you want, but ultimately, I'm not a Jason Campbell fan, I'm a Washington Redskins fan. So until he wins one of those, you really can't say he's better.:2cents:

[Vicious]

[Soup]

I'd say Campbell = Vince Young

[#21Taylor4Ever]

I don't think I'll ever understand how people ignore stats, since numbers don't lie. Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one and most of em stink, so stats/numbers are the best way to gauge a player.

It's not always definite, but if you follow the numbers, JC may very well lead us to the SB with some help from the FO.

[taylorcoreskin]

Match Cambell's career against the appropriate stage in Eli's career and see who has more TD's (thus points) per game. Meaning who contributes more heavily to his offense's production, to the scores his offense puts up.

Eli is a TD machine. He's been one since his second year. Peyton Manning was a TD machine since year one and never looked back, he simply started throwing EVEN MORE TDs and fewer interceptions.

The pulse of an offense is its point production. Having Jason Campbell lead your offense is the equivalent to putting a shotgun to the offense's heart and pulling the trigger BABY.

Any other masochists want to defend Campbell?

Anyone else want the heartbeat of our offense to remain in an endless flatline?

If so, vote Campbell. :point2sky

[fire3fighter4]

Eli has led his team into the post season 4 straight years.

/discussion.

[fire3fighter4]

Match Cambell's career against the appropriate stage in Eli's career and see who has more TD's (thus points) per game. Meaning who contributes more heavily to his offense's production, to the scores his offense puts up.

Eli is a TD machine. He's been one since his second year. Peyton Manning was a TD machine since year one and never looked back, he simply started throwing EVEN MORE TDs and fewer interceptions.

The pulse of an offense is its point production. Having Jason Campbell lead your offense is the equivalent to putting a shotgun to the offense's heart and pulling the trigger BABY.

Any other masochists want to defend Campbell?

Anyone else want the heartbeat of our offense to remain in an endless flatline?

If so, vote Campbell. :point2sky

if you do what you say in the first part, you'll notice that Mannigns TD per game numbers either stayed the same, or improved. Where as with Campbell they decrease every year.

[deejaydana]

Stats:

Eli Manning Super Bowls : 1

Division Titles: 2 (after the next 2 weeks)

Jason Campbell Super Bowls: 0

Divison Titles: 0

It's the only stat that matters at day's end.

[mi6]

I'd say Campbell = Vince Young

And, Vince Young = a BUST!

Jason is pathetic QB. Comparing him to Eli or any other elite QB is a useless comparison.

Eli has intangibles that Jason just doesn't have. When Eli needs to elevate his game, he does! When he needs to make plays, he does. Despite interceptions and sacks, he still finds ways to keep the team in the game.

He has taken his team to playoffs a couple of times, and won a Superbowl with some outstanding QB play. What has Jason done? Nothing! Precisely.

Time to get over the Jason era. The guy is stiff, makes poor throws, and even poorer reads.

Hope the Jason era comes to a quick end. He has until the end of the year to earn some of his stripes ...:applause:

[GoCommiesGo]

Did you just not one to post the TD/INT comparison for giggles or because it doesn't support your point?

Year 1

E M 6 tds 9 int

J C 10 tds 6 int

Year 2

E M 24 tds 17 int

J C 12 tds 11 int

Year 3

E M 24 tds 18 int

J C 12 tds 6 int (given that this is partial for JC we can extrapolate this out for the remaining two games)

14 tds 7 int

In their first 3 years Manning had thrown 54 tds and 44 ints. Campbell has thrown, including projection 36 tds and 24 ints.

Going a step further we can look at when their multi touchdown games have come, did they put their team on their back to win it without any other help?

Campbell has 8 games out of 34 where he has thrown for more than one touchdown. Of those 8 he had 2 games where the net rushing of the team was below 100 yards, lost both of those games.

In comparison Manning has 15 games out of 41 where he has thrown for more than one touchdown. Of those 15 he had 6 games where the net rushing of the team was below 100 yards he's 3 and 3 in those games.

Eli also attempted 1,276 passes in his first three years JC 1,067. Eli dropped back 209 more times than JC. He was also sacked 75 times as opposed to 62 by JC.

Eli has had more on his plate than JC and had less help from the D. In his first 3 years the Giants defense ranked 13, 24 and 25. JC's defense 31, 8 and 5.

JC has produced less with more than Eli. I hate bagging on JC and lift Eli up but its the truth, right? Stats don't lie?

[RAAZ227]

People are missing a very, very important aspect. Manning has been in the same offensive system ever since he has been with the Giants. JC has be unfortunate to go through so many different systems. WE HAVE TO GIVE HE and ZORN A CHANCE!!! We can't keep exploring offenses with Campbell! The Redskins will never go ANYWHERE if we keep doing this! There needs to be some consistency with him. Colt it NOT the answer (I am not saying you are proposing that but many are).

How do you think the numbers would look if JC stayed in the same offense ever sine he was drafted?? We can't look at Campbell, this all goes back to Danny boy and Vinny!

Didn't mean to get OT

HTTR!

[McSkin30]

For the record, I wasn't making the argument that Campbell is a better QB. My point was the difference in the age of offensive lines. You can twist my words or numbers, the fact remains that the Giants have maintained a younger, healthier offensive line. Like it or not, instinct or no, that has a substantial effect on the all-around level of play.

Comparing TDs is a worthwhile stat, but like everything else, that has flaws as well. How much of the first 2 playoff runs were on Tiki's shoulders, not Eli's? How many plays of 25+ yards? The reason the Giants could make the deep throws that got Eli all those TDs (and Ints) is the set of younger, stronger lineman giving him (and his receivers) the time.

[Spear]

Campbell lives between the 20's, throwing dinks and dunks, whereas Eli can actually complete balls down field and finish off drives.

[RAAZ227]

Campbell lives between the 20's, throwing dinks and dunks, whereas Eli can actually complete balls down field and finish off drives.

[pilsburypgh]

To which I would ask, are we talking about Campbell vs. Manning in his 3rd year? If that's the case: Campbell.

I might also ask, in the same situation, who would you rather have in front of you: a line full of 27 year olds or a line full of 31 year olds?

If your life depended on it would you choose Campbell? If you do your as good as gone. Eli, even before he won the SB still won big games for them down the stretch. The problem was he wasnt consistent. JC has done absolutely nothin since hes been playing. No game winning drives nothing. But lose.

[jivelikenice]

A. Where's the stat for Eli's playoff appearances? 2 playoff appearances in his first two seasons.

B. What about the win/loss record in his 1st three years? 20-19 (19-13 in years 2 & 3)

C. TD's- 47 TD passes in his first 34 games

Now for Jason Campbell:

A. Playoff appearances?- ZERO

B. Win/Loss Record? 15-19 (13-14 in Years 2 & 3 after having a Redshirt rookie season)

C.TD's- 34 TD's in 34 Career Starts

Win/ Loss, Playoffs, and Pts....That's all that matters folks....and he ain't cutting it.

A LOT of QB's are mediocre at this point and can compare to Eli's completion percentage and rating his first few years in the league but that does NOT mean they will be the next Eli!!!