Personnel Missteps Keep Redskins Back in 2008

[bulldog]

the Redskins were a team in transition heading into 2008, with a new HC and a starting quarterback running yet another new scheme.

whereas this has usually meant a year of taking your lumps, the examples of the Ravens, Falcons, and the Dolphins show that in the era of parity teams can overcome these transitions and still improve their records as they learn to play together.

while these teams have continued to gain momentum, the Redskins falling from 4-1 start to a 3-5 recent stretch shows that this team is perhaps missing some of the key elements necessary for a turnaround that builds on itself and points to questions being answered rather than additional questions being posed over 16 games.

from this view at Fedex Field in 2008, the Redskins appeared from the start to be a fragile enterprise. older players in critical positions whose health status has been suspect in previous seasons. younger players whom the coaches seemed reluctant at times to put on the field and grow with, delaying the inevitable mini-rebuild at certain positions that we all now see coming in the offseason.

but for all these, 2 factors to me showed why this team failed to make a jump during the season that was sustainable.

one was the singular failure of the 2008 draft class to make any real mark on the field outside of Chris Horton.

the truth is that it was of much greater immediate importance for the draft picks at WR and OL to emerge. the Redskins have some flexibility in the defensive backfield and the signing of Mike Green in mid-season provided some stability after Reed Doughty went on IR.

but all three receivers that were chosen in the draft took mulligans for the 2008 season. for various reasons none of the three was ready to contribute in any visible way even by midseason when they had a taste of the level of competition in the NFL.

in addition, #3 draft pick Chad Rinehart, a college tackle at 6'5 and 315, has been inactive for the first 12 games, evidently far enough away from being a contributor he was not even considered valuable as a backup at OT/OG during the season.

so that's the entire first day of the draft with no net benefit to the club on the field in 2008. you contrast that to teams like Denver that got serious production out of Eddie Royal or the Falcons who have a bevy of rookies and younger players providing critical contributions to raise them to 8-5.

beyond the draft picks and perhaps of equal concern is the state of the team's free agent moves on the DL.

refusing to draft DL or sign DEs with decent size who can both play the run and rush the passer, the Redskins continue to need to load up at cornerback with the likes of DeAngelo Hall, a two time pro bowler, because the defense's only 'defense' is blanket coverage, with the quarterbacks getting 3 or 4 seconds to find an open receiver.

the moves made?

#2 and #6 picks in 2009 for the 34 year old Jason Taylor. An old adage in the NFL is you don't get rich trading with Bill Parcells. While he may make mistakes on personnel he acquires from time to time, once he has a chance to see a guy in person and evaluate him and decides to jettison him, the bet is the guy is done, or at least severly overpaid for what he is producing.

so far that's 1.0 sacks for $8.5M plus the draft picks. what a disaster. John Riggins, to his credit, questioned the utility of trading for a 34 year old DE who indicated he was clearly seeing the end of his career and didn't see supremely motivated to remain in the NFL, but rather to make a career elsewhere in the entertainment industry down the road.

the other misstep was Andre Carter. Carter did have 10.5 sacks last season but had a rough intro to the Redskins in 2006 and he hasn't set the world on fire in 2008.

you just can't give a guy a $30M contract and get 3 sacks.

the Giants have second tier backups that produce better numbers.

when looking back on this season, there were some definite opportunities missed, during a transition period that could have been even more difficult.

but in the end the failure of Cerrato's 10 draft picks to contribute (as Jerry Reese's draft picks DID for the Giants in 2007) and the failure of the offseason's one major move (for Taylor) to pay off, consigned this team to ultimate disappointment.

now we have to hope that the 2008 draft class was just a group of slow learners that needed seasoning at this level.

otherwise, Snyder may as well have traded the picks for veterans.

[Warhead36]

As always great post. The best and most efficient way to build a successful franchsie is to stockpile youth and develop your own homegrown guys through the draft. I won't kill our FO for taking receivers, because it was a clear need for us, but we should have taken more linemen.

Nothing would make me happier than doing nothing but drafting linemen in 2009, offensive and defensive. Of course having said that we'll probably trade up for a LB or CB.

Such is life as a Skins fan in the Snyderatto era...

[Ynot]

I agree with alot you have to say, but our ends may have issues due to defensive scheme instead of talent. Ho can Taylor drop off so far? Same with Carter. The problem if you watch the ends during the game they are taught to engage and then rush. Never the Latter first. Watch Ravens, Steelers and it is jsut the opposite. They want you to react to them instead of vice versa.

There were times were if you watch Taylor he has his guy beat to the outside, but stops and uses leaverage not to leave a big gap just in case it is a draw or leaving a lane for the quaterback. Now the reason maybe our tackles are not good enougth to fill and flow to compensate or to keep the other lineman off our backers. If you watch I defense it is very undercontrol, nothing like the steelers or ravens

[alleycat]

You use the Ravens,Falcons,Dolphins and broncos to back up your point.

Ravens 9 wins

Falcons 8 wins

Dolphins 8 wins

Broncos 8 wins

Redskins 7 wins

The post was very very well written but the team comparisons are what they are. We are 1-2 games away from the teams you mention.I am sure there all kinds of stats...But end of the day we are looking at wins and losses.

I want better production but we are building something that takes a while.

[bulldog]

Agreed, but the Falcons, Ravens are building with some key building blocks that are very young, especially at quarterback where Matt Ryan looks like a future pro bowler while Flacco is light years ahead of where most rookies are at this stage.

My concern is that the Redskins have just started the process of rebuilding and replacing some of the aging players on the roster at key spots, and so the 'pain' is going to be spread out over a longer period of time.

This time lag has perhaps been exacerbated by the deal for Taylor, in which the Redskins gave up one player (next year's #2 pick) who was likely to be a guy that in most drafts on most teams turns out be a contributor, and often a very effective one.

So, one of those building blocks was dealt for a broken down player who at 244 is too small and too old to play DE in the NFC East.

[skinfan2k]

Bulldog, did you think that Zorn and co. thought this line would be able to hold out for longer than reality, therefore the urgent need to draft 3 playmakers. Daniels injury was huge in terms of draft picks

[alleycat]

Agreed, but the Falcons, Ravens are building with some key building blocks that are very young, especially at quarterback where Matt Ryan looks like a future pro bowler while Flacco is light years ahead of where most rookies are at this stage.

My concern is that the Redskins have just started the process of rebuilding and replacing some of the aging players on the roster at key spots, and so the 'pain' is going to be spread out over a longer period of time.

This time lag has perhaps been exacerbated by the deal for Taylor, in which the Redskins gave up one player (next year's #2 pick) who was likely to be a guy that in most drafts on most teams turns out be a contributor, and often a very effective one.

So, one of those building blocks was dealt for a broken down player who at 244 is too small and too old to play DE in the NFC East.

I want to argue but...Some things just taste like POO when eaten !

I would say:

We have seen alot of Real good one year performances out of QB's in the league.

I don't KNOW they are light years ahead.I bet there are a lot of factors that go into a QB doing well...Many of which...ARE NOT the QB.

How good would the team be with: ( Just pick any ONE)

Solid pass pro?

Solid #2 WR ?

Solid punter?

Solid Punt rtn?

Any ONE of them could have equalled 1-2 wins for us.

All of a sudden we are 9 wins and we are bells of the ball !

Gawd knows I want it NOW...But 10/11 wins may take till next year.

If we win 9 games this year and 10-11 next...Would we consider it a failed 2 year process ?

[hail2skins]

If we win 9 games this year and 10-11 next...Would we consider it a failed 2 year process ?

Not at all....if it happens.....and i hope it does.

I think what Bulldog is projecting, though, is a scenario where we get a little worse before we get better. And in my mind, rebuilding is OK to go through if you've done something noteworthy in the immediate past.

What have the Skins done before Zorn got here, particularly in the four years of Gibbs? Two late-season runs to get a #6 playoff seed, one of which was in spite of Gibbs' hand-picked QB going down with injury.

Gee thanks.

[bulldog]

The Ravens offense over the past 3-4 years has been constipated, it is what finally got Brian Billick fired. The defense shut people down but the offense just couldn't score enough points. Sound familiar?

Tell me that Willis McGahee, Todd Heap and Derrick Mason as a group are better playmakers than Portis, Cooley and Moss?

The Ravens as well just lost Jonathan Ogden to retirement in 2008 and are starting Gaither in 2008 at OT.

Seems the Redskins had a similar player in Heyer that started the stretch run last year at OT and the playoff game against Seattle.

In the long-run I think the Redskins made a mistake by putting Jansen back on the field at RT. It was a short-term decision that did nothing but set back Heyer and the team another year. All that additional experience would have made Heyer a better football player heading into 2009. We all know Jansen won't be back in 2009 at age 33. His body is shot.

All that just to go 9-7 instead of 8-8?

And I say that facetiously as I don't know that starting Heyer might have ADDED some big plays with Campbell being given that extra second to throw the ball in some key situations.

[FuriousD]

Damned if we do and damned if we don't! Seems like that's our cross to bear.

If Vinny can blow (3) 2nd round picks in a row in 2008 I'm not gonna cry about the one that got away in 2009.

But I reserve the right to be pissed about next April if the mood takes me!

:helmet:

[bulldog]

the problem as mentioned on another thread is consistency.

Cerrato talks about how important the draft is in taking 10 selections in 2008 and keeping all of them on the active roster and then he goes out and trades multiple picks in 2009 for an over-the-hill Jason Taylor who weighs less at DE than HB Blades :laugh:

[maskedsuperstar]

the Redskins were a team in transition heading into 2008, with a new HC and a starting quarterback running yet another new scheme.

whereas this has usually meant a year of taking your lumps, the examples of the Ravens, Falcons, and the Dolphins show that in the era of parity teams can overcome these transitions and still improve their records as they learn to play together.

while these teams have continued to gain momentum, the Redskins falling from 4-1 start to a 3-5 recent stretch shows that this team is perhaps missing some of the key elements necessary for a turnaround that builds on itself and points to questions being answered rather than additional questions being posed over 16 games.

from this view at Fedex Field in 2008, the Redskins appeared from the start to be a fragile enterprise. older players in critical positions whose health status has been suspect in previous seasons. younger players whom the coaches seemed reluctant at times to put on the field and grow with, delaying the inevitable mini-rebuild at certain positions that we all now see coming in the offseason.

but for all these, 2 factors to me showed why this team failed to make a jump during the season that was sustainable.

one was the singular failure of the 2008 draft class to make any real mark on the field outside of Chris Horton.

the truth is that it was of much greater immediate importance for the draft picks at WR and OL to emerge. the Redskins have some flexibility in the defensive backfield and the signing of Mike Green in mid-season provided some stability after Reed Doughty went on IR.

but all three receivers that were chosen in the draft took mulligans for the 2008 season. for various reasons none of the three was ready to contribute in any visible way even by midseason when they had a taste of the level of competition in the NFL.

in addition, #3 draft pick Chad Rinehart, a college tackle at 6'5 and 315, has been inactive for the first 12 games, evidently far enough away from being a contributor he was not even considered valuable as a backup at OT/OG during the season.

so that's the entire first day of the draft with no net benefit to the club on the field in 2008. you contrast that to teams like Denver that got serious production out of Eddie Royal or the Falcons who have a bevy of rookies and younger players providing critical contributions to raise them to 8-5.

beyond the draft picks and perhaps of equal concern is the state of the team's free agent moves on the DL.

refusing to draft DL or sign DEs with decent size who can both play the run and rush the passer, the Redskins continue to need to load up at cornerback with the likes of DeAngelo Hall, a two time pro bowler, because the defense's only 'defense' is blanket coverage, with the quarterbacks getting 3 or 4 seconds to find an open receiver.

the moves made?

#2 and #6 picks in 2009 for the 34 year old Jason Taylor. An old adage in the NFL is you don't get rich trading with Bill Parcells. While he may make mistakes on personnel he acquires from time to time, once he has a chance to see a guy in person and evaluate him and decides to jettison him, the bet is the guy is done, or at least severly overpaid for what he is producing.

so far that's 1.0 sacks for $8.5M plus the draft picks. what a disaster. John Riggins, to his credit, questioned the utility of trading for a 34 year old DE who indicated he was clearly seeing the end of his career and didn't see supremely motivated to remain in the NFL, but rather to make a career elsewhere in the entertainment industry down the road.

the other misstep was Andre Carter. Carter did have 10.5 sacks last season but had a rough intro to the Redskins in 2006 and he hasn't set the world on fire in 2008.

you just can't give a guy a $30M contract and get 3 sacks.

the Giants have second tier backups that produce better numbers.

when looking back on this season, there were some definite opportunities missed, during a transition period that could have been even more difficult.

but in the end the failure of Cerrato's 10 draft picks to contribute (as Jerry Reese's draft picks DID for the Giants in 2007) and the failure of the offseason's one major move (for Taylor) to pay off, consigned this team to ultimate disappointment.

now we have to hope that the 2008 draft class was just a group of slow learners that needed seasoning at this level.

otherwise, Snyder may as well have traded the picks for veterans.

The Giants scheme is to go after the QB, where Blache wants to stop the run. It doesn't matter if the Skins drafted the baddest DL in college. If Blache wants the DL to play gap control, thats what is going to happen. Its all about scheme. Has the defense been the problem? No, it has only been in the top 10, 4 out of the last 5 years. The problem has been the offense. Cant score any points, with learning different systems every year.

The need for a big WR was the talk. The Skins draft them. We whine about it? Who didn't know that!!!!

The Giants don't have 1 single first rounder on the OL. They have 2 UDFA, 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and a 5th rounder. The best OL in football.

The point is that Vinny did draft. See, some drafted players will be busts. Not every player called on Saturday make it on Sundays. That is a fact. I love the draft. But it is a crap shoot. Don't kid yourself. Vinny drafted for the future. Whats the problem with that? That was his first draft for the Skins. YEP, it was. Gibbs was in charge of player personnel. He had the last say. So, lets sit back and see what happens.

[maskedsuperstar]

the problem as mentioned on another thread is consistency.

Cerrato talks about how important the draft is in taking 10 selections in 2008 and keeping all of them on the active roster and then he goes out and trades multiple picks in 2009 for an over-the-hill Jason Taylor who weighs less at DE than HB Blades :laugh:

And he traded for Taylor for what reason?

[Genghis Khan]

I m still mad that we let Derrick Dockery walk.

[NoVaSkins21]

And he traded for Taylor for what reason?

Both Phillip Daniels and his backup Alex Buzbee went down on the first practice of the first day of camp.

[Dark Acre]

Both Phillip Daniels and his backup Alex Buzbee went down on the first practice of the first day of camp.

Still a panic move. Taylor is a finesse/sacks guy and Daniels was a run-stuffing/stay-at-home DE. If Taylor would have been the right replacement for Daniels when hurt, he would've been the same right replacement when Daniels was healthy. You *cannot* tell me that Demetric Evans cannot play the run as well as Taylor. Maybe not as well as Daniels, but even if you get 3-5 sacks from Taylor, which we aren't, do you give up a 2nd rounder so Evans doesn't start? Are you kidding me? No way. :doh:

[gkekoa]

I personally think all of you that are questioning the entire draft are short-sighted. First off, nobody expected us to do well this year because we were inserting another offense, with a first year coach and an unproven QB. We went with the best player available in the second round of the draft and got three guys that were projected by many to go in the first round. We didn't need many starters on this entire team with the arguable exception of LDE and safety (perhaps). We drafted most of our guys with as backups and projects.

That is the problem with Hind-sight.

My obvious personal opinion is that you win in the trenches...period. If you are good up front everyone on that side of the ball is better. The problem with the offensive linemen drafted at our position is 6 Olinemen were drafted prior to us picking and the value wasn't there. The two in the first round that were selected at our pick or later were Sam Baker who had injury concerns and Duane Brown who hasn't seen the field very much.

[alleycat]

I m still mad that we let Derrick Dockery walk.

Are you aware of what he got paid ???

[alleycat]

Still a panic move. Taylor is a finesse/sacks guy and Daniels was a run-stuffing/stay-at-home DE. If Taylor would have been the right replacement for Daniels when hurt, he would've been the same right replacement when Daniels was healthy. You *cannot* tell me that Demetric Evans cannot play the run as well as Taylor. Maybe not as well as Daniels, but even if you get 3-5 sacks from Taylor, which we aren't, do you give up a 2nd rounder so Evans doesn't start? Are you kidding me? No way. :doh:

LOL...I think panic is reasoable.When did JT become a bum ??

We paid too much but I don't think we knew he would kicked in the calf.

I am not happy with his healthy production.But I don't think it's fair to judge a decision with more info than the decision makers had at the time of signing.

[Gregpeck99]

20-20 hindsight is perfect. So if one wants to play this game ... Collins should have been the starter based upon last year's result (and tapes). Coulda coulda shouda ... blah.

[justice98]

Still a panic move. Taylor is a finesse/sacks guy and Daniels was a run-stuffing/stay-at-home DE. If Taylor would have been the right replacement for Daniels when hurt, he would've been the same right replacement when Daniels was healthy. You *cannot* tell me that Demetric Evans cannot play the run as well as Taylor. Maybe not as well as Daniels, but even if you get 3-5 sacks from Taylor, which we aren't, do you give up a 2nd rounder so Evans doesn't start? Are you kidding me? No way. :doh:

In hindsight, if you'd known that the All-Pro wouldn't give you anything, then yeah, you'd have gone with Evans at DE. But even then, you'd have no depth, because who's behind Evans? And stopping the run's really not their problem (Sunday night notwithstanding). Like has been pointed out, they're still the 6th ranked D in the league, and their #1 issue by far was pass rush. Taylor had shown no signs that he was no longer capable of wreaking havoc on the QB. I think the Taylor move was a good move at the time, that just didn't work out. There was no way to know Taylor would be injured for 3 quarters of the season.

Now, on the other side, Andre Carter is a fraudulent DE. Been here 3 years and 2 of them have sucked and one was pretty good. There's really no reason why he shouldn't be a better pass rusher. A DE that doesn't stop the run AND can't get to the QB isn't of much use. And you're moving Taylor to the other side to accomodate Carter, which is doing nothing for either one.

[Chump Bailey]

LOL...I think panic is reasoable.When did JT become a bum ??

We paid too much but I don't think we knew he would kicked in the calf.

I am not happy with his healthy production.But I don't think it's fair to judge a decision with more info than the decision makers had at the time of signing.

I agree, but if you're willing to part with two draft picks, you have to get something of value in return for more than a season or two at the most. I think no other team was even close to relinquishing a 2nd round pick in return for JT. He should have made a move for a younger player like perhaps Victor Adeyanju. A young DE in the mold of Daniels. He needs to think long-term. He gets paid handsomely to make good decisions to improve the team personnel wise. It's hard to understand why he would make such a move unless he felt JT was the missing player that was going to bring us a championship ring. Obviously, that's not the case. Bill knows what he's doing and that is evident with the Dolphins improved play and better record. It was a bad move on his part and he should have had a bit more foresight.

[jbowman]

We have our 2009 #6 pick.We traded #2 2009, #6 2010 for Taylor.

[Capt Rich Fla]

Hind sight is a mother ******. Looking back on Jason Taylor, I could stick forks my eyes. A second round pick.:doh: I can't ***** too much about it. I was all for it at the time. That second rounder has alot more luster to it now.

[Neophyte]

The Giants scheme is to go after the QB, where Blache wants to stop the run. It doesn't matter if the Skins drafted the baddest DL in college. If Blache wants the DL to play gap control, thats what is going to happen. Its all about scheme. Has the defense been the problem? No, it has only been in the top 10, 4 out of the last 5 years. The problem has been the offense. Cant score any points, with learning different systems every year.

The need for a big WR was the talk. The Skins draft them. We whine about it? Who didn't know that!!!!

First, the Giants are 6 yards a game better in Rushing defense than the Skins and they still get to the QB (tied for forth in the league in Sacks at 37, better than 3 a game). This is not an either/or situation. You can do both.

Second, while the Skins have been good in defense 4 of the last 5 years there have been too many games where the defense has had good numbers statistically but could not come up with the stop when they had too (ie the Ravens and Cowboy games this year). There is also the small matter of turnovers and the fact that since Taylor was killed this D has shown how much it depended on him to get them. For all this Defense has been good, it has not been great nor has it been game changing.

Third, a big WR is not a necessity. It might be nice to have but hardly necessary and this team proved it over the first 8 games of this season. The Skins were the first team in the league to have 3 players with over 30 catches (Moss, ARE and Cooley). If Campbell had more time, the receivers we had would have been fine for another year.

The Giants don't have 1 single first rounder on the OL. They have 2 UDFA, 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, and a 5th rounder. The best OL in football.

The part you left out is that they average 3 years younger than our line where Rabach is the youngest with 8 years in the league. He would be tied for second oldest on the Giants line. You also left out the part where we have not spent a 2nd rounder on an OL position since the 99 draft. Ten years. In fact, we have only spent 2 draft picks above the 5th round on the OL since the 2000 draft when we took Samuels in the first round. That is 2 picks in the first 4 rounds over a 9 year period. Worse, the second one was to fill a hole created by letting the first one get away since Rinehart is projected to play the same position Dockery did for us. Even more of an issue is that we gave up two draft picks to get Kendall to fill that hole for 2 years between Dock and Rinehart. Four picks to fill the position of LG over a period of time that one player could have done it alone. Think about that for a bit and see if it does not turn your stomach.

The point is that Vinny did draft. See, some drafted players will be busts. Not every player called on Saturday make it on Sundays. That is a fact. I love the draft. But it is a crap shoot. Don't kid yourself. Vinny drafted for the future. Whats the problem with that? That was his first draft for the Skins. YEP, it was. Gibbs was in charge of player personnel. He had the last say. So, lets sit back and see what happens.

No, it wasn't. Who do you think ran the draft for the Skins after Casserly was let go? Don't kid yourself. Until Marty fired him it was Vinny and once Marty was gone, it was Vinny again until such time as Gibbs came in. Vinny has had several years worth of drafts for us to look at so he has a record.

"Some players" being busts is excusable. Keeping all 10 on your opening day roster but getting meaningful contributions out of just one smells of something to me and it isn't something good.