Suffering from a loss of Identity without Williams and Gibbs

[ntotoro]

Think back to the drafts of '04-'07. Williams had the marquee picks of the drafts. What was his mantra? Build from the OUTSIDE, IN. Ass backwards.

So what does Vinny do... ? Draft three pass-catchers in the 2nd round... :doh:

Who's to say, in retrospect, how much Williams actually had to do with those picks? We have good DB's, who's to say this year wouldn't have been different with our early picks?

[Warpath11]

Jason needs to get over that and trust what his eyes see and let the ball go without thinking about it to much.

This is the crux of the problem with JC lately, he is way to mechanical/robotic in a position that relies on instinct. I lay some of the blame on Gibbs with his no mistakes mantra...all JC has heard his entire time in the NFL is not to make a mistake, that type of stuff over time kills that natural instinct/trust a QB has in his eyes and arm. Someone needs to tell the kid to let the ball go...

[Tastes Like Chicken]

So what does Vinny do... ? Draft three pass-catchers in the 2nd round... :doh:

Who's to say, in retrospect, how much Williams actually had to do with those picks? We have good DB's, who's to say this year wouldn't have been different with our early picks?

Gibbs had final say on personnel decisions, and in the end we spent high round picks everywhere but the lines. I agree, Vinny continued the poor decision making on draft day. I thought it was brilliant to move back and pick up 2 extra 2nd rounders, but we need line help. This team has a lot invested in the skill positions, but it's my opinion that our trenches are soft and thus are team lacks A)pass rush from the front and ability to give JC time to throw.

[33]

If someone like John Fox got the sort of late season productive surges out of the team that Gibbs got he would be lauded. But because his reputation preceded him Gibbs was partly criticized for his best years in the recent campaign.

I'm not advocating firing Zorn, but I think it's amazing how many people fail to see that this team has actually gotten worse as the season has progressed. It's one thing to lose to Pitt, Dallas, NYG and Baltimore. It's another entirely for your OC/HC to muster exactly 33 points out of those four games and not once adjust his pass protection. And for four years we wondered why Gibbs was married to his max protect schemes?

I'm not talking about personnel. There is a simple way to look at a coach, and when it counted most Gibbs got the most out of his players. It's pretty hard to say that Zorn isn't currently getting the least out of those same guys.

[Merlin Emrys]

I agree we could have Vince Lombardi coaching this team along with Joe Montana at QB both in their prime and we would still fail. Our lines are horrid not Zorn or Campbell.

I don't think the OP's point was the end result. The problem is the manner in which the team is losing. He pointed out noticeable differences between these loses and loses under Gibss/Williams.

[TK]

Catch up to speed BUMP for those that need it.

[doom44]

It's really sad to look back to the crossroads of earlier this year when Zorn was hired. Williams for whatever reason had the trust and respect of the players. That stuff takes time to build. Respect is earned over time.

Snyder just does not get it. I pray we survive the season and Zorn gets his on the job training somewhere else. Bring back Williams and do what you should have done in the first freekin place.

This thread was one hell of a depressing but informative read.

[gjshipp]

This is a great thread...very depressing but very informative. I am sort of glad I dont have any inside info on this team, it would probably make me sick. After reading the whole thread. We either need to gut the team and coaching staff and let zorn get players and coaches he wants or they fire zorn and bring in somebody to coach what we have.

I hate comparing other teams rebuilding with what we need to do, but if you look at the Falcons and the Dolphins they both got new player personnel people and traded alot of players for draft picks. The Dolphins got Pennington and the Falcons drafted Ryan. I think there is a blueprint to be followed, unfortunately I dont know if our organization or fanbase is willing to go that direction.

After watching my beloved team sputter between average and horrid this last 15yrs. I dont know if the end of last season we were as good as we looked or we just got lucky. If you believe we were close you probably think we should have kept Williams and Saunders at OC have the open competition for starting QB position. If you think it was luck or a mirage bringing in a new coach with new system makes sense. The only problem is we sort of halfway did the start over thing and halfway keep it the same thing. If we continue down this road the last 3 games. I think it will be time to fully start over...whatever the heck that means after this many years

Now lets go out and crush the Bengals..

[Hooper]

This is all blown out of proportion.

Last year, there were plenty of games where the d-line collapsed in the fourth quarter just like it is now. Guess we all forgot.

Last year, there were times when the offense looked terrible. Especially against good defenses before JC got hurt. Guess we all forgot.

Until we fire Vinny and rebuild the trenches, we'll be having these kind of threads for a long time.