Jason Campbell vs. Eli Manning: By the Numbers

[kleese]

Lots of talk about JC this week and whether or not he has "it" to lead us into the future.

All of this talk got me thinking about Eli Manning and how many Giants fans were MORE than ready to pull the plug on his carrer.

As we all know, QB is a difficult position and several QB's take a LONG time to develop before they "get it." Some never do, but others like Eli and Drew Brees seem to hit some sort of switch where everything just clicks.

IMO, Eli is quite possibly the best QB in the NFL right now-- at least he's in the discussion-- and if I would have said that even at mid-season last year, people would have laughed at me.

Does this automatically mean JC will someday be as good as Eli? No, of course not. But what it should show, is that JC IS STILL developing, and that it may be a bit premature to categorize him as being "what he is."

JC has now started a total of 32 games-- the exact equivalent of two regular seasons.

I am comparing his numbers to Eli's numbers in the 32 games he started in 2005 and 2006. I did NOT include Eli's rookie numbers from 2004....if I did, JC's would be MUCH better. I figured because JC never played as a rookie and Eli did, it wouldn't be a totally fair comparison. So, please keep in mind that Eli actually had a half season worth of starts under his belt BEFORE he put up these numbers:

Rating

Campbell: 81.2

Manning: 76.45

Comp. %

Campbell: 60%

Manning: 55.1%

Yards

Campbell: 6.557

Manning: 7,006

Yards/Attempt

Campbell: 6.5

Manning: 6.5

Touchdowns to Interceptions

Campbell: 32 to 21

Manning: 48 to 35

Fumbles Lost

Campbell: 9

Manning: 4

Sacks

Campbell: 60

Manning: 53

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

It doesn't matter....none of this.

Start Colt now!

Seriously though, thanks for the numbers...

[Shilsu]

Eli Manning is this generation's Terry Bradshaw.

[sg0508]

I wouldn't go on #s. Stats don't tell the whole story and in fact, they tell very little. The ? is, do you think Campbell is the type that can lead you down the field to tie/win the game in a big situation?

Manning proves it over and over. So far, Campbell has not

[Voice_of_Reason]

Eli Manning is this generation's Terry Bradshaw.

That's actually pretty apt. However, I think that Terry has always been a little under appreciated. He was a much better QB than a lot of people give him credit for.

That said, Eli Manning got hot in December of last year, and has stayed hot since then. The folks in NYC wanted to dump him like garbage in the early part of the season, and they booed him mercilessly and he played terribly at home, one of the reasons why the Giants had a better away record than home record last year.

WOW. Does that sound familiar? The 'Skins COULD (not saying they will, but COULD) end up with a 7-1 road record and 3-5 home record this year. I think if that happens, fans need to look in the mirror a little bit.

[AAARedskin]

I have been saying this for over a year.........THE ONLY STAT THAT REALLY MATTERS FOR A QB IS HIS WIN/LOSS RECORD. Start Colt NOW.....let's build for next season, see what the kid can do, and let Colt and Jason battle for the job in training camp next summer/fall.....

[SonnyJ]

I wouldn't go on #s. Stats don't tell the whole story and in fact, they tell very little. The ? is, do you think Campbell is the type that can lead you down the field to tie/win the game in a big situation?

Manning proves it over and over. So far, Campbell has not

I think this is a big issue. PeterMP pointed this out earlier in the week. Manning hasn't been consistently great, but he had moments where he has put the team on his back and took them to victory. You saw that he could do it, just not that he could do it consistently. We haven't seen that game from Campbell - that's what is troubling. Honestly, in looking back on it, I think the most impressive game I've seen from Campbell is the 2006 season-ender against the Giants - he came up short in the end, but he showed stuff that really left you wanting more.

I still wouldn't put Manning in the conversation of the best QBs in the league. Top 10, perhaps, but not elite. I think he is still prone to mistakes. I think the best model for Campbell is Hasselbeck, a guy who really struggled early in his career and even benched for Trent Dilfer. But, he kept working at it and has turned into a solid and efficient QB (present season notwithstanding). There is the Zorn relationship there, too.

I could deal with Campbell turning out like Hasselbeck. A team can win with that sort of QBing.

[stafbrad]

I have been saying this for over a year.........THE ONLY STAT THAT REALLY MATTERS FOR A QB IS HIS WIN/LOSS RECORD. Start Colt NOW.....let's build for next season, see what the kid can do, and let Colt and Jason battle for the job in training camp next summer/fall.....

I'm with you, we continue to give Campbell chance after chance with only excuses as to why he hasn't delivered. "He's had 7 different coaches, his line is bad, his WR's suck, blah blah..." Listen, good QB's get it done with whatever they're given...period. It's time to realize that we can trade Campbell and get a LOT in return. Colt's a leader and it's time to see if he can make it happen the way Collins did after Campbell went down last year.

[hail2skins]

Actually, we did see Campbell finally bring the Skins from behind to win against the Saints this year. And then he had the nice games on the road against Dallas and Philly.

But it seems like the past couple of years we've seen the early flashes of brilliance from JC, followed by average to mediocre play.

The thing that hurts JC is the direct comparison to his counterparts within the division. McNabb was 11-5 in his first full year as starter. Manning was also 11-5. Romo sits to pee, 13-3!

Campbell was 5-7 last season and, as Bulldog said in a post yesterday, I don't think we get to the playoffs if he doesn't go down against the Bears.

You can blame the line and receivers to a certain extent but sooner or later the QB has to step up. I suspect Campbell will be the starter next year, which will also be his contract year. Absent a complete breakdown of the defense, if we don't see marked improvement in the most important category--Ws and Ls--I think we might start looking for someone else to start in 2010.

And so far this year, I don't think Campbell has been treated harshly by the FedEx faithful at all.

[cphil006]

Using numbers is very flawed especially for a West Cost offense QB...

[redcayman]

I'm with you, we continue to give Campbell chance after chance with only excuses as to why he hasn't delivered. "He's had 7 different coaches, his line is bad, his WR's suck, blah blah..." Listen, good QB's get it done with whatever they're given...period. It's time to realize that we can trade Campbell and get a LOT in return. Colt's a leader and it's time to see if he can make it happen the way Collins did after Campbell went down last year.

WHOOOO Who are these QB's getting it done with a poor line, no recievers and no continuity???? Nobody produces when they have all these issues. By the way doesn't the fact that YOU believe that we could get so much for him in a trade mean he has what it takes to be a good QB?

[SonnyJ]

Actually, we did see Campbell finally bring the Skins from behind to win against the Saints this year...

You're right. Campbell did step up big-time in that game and made some really clutch plays. That improvised play to Cooley was a thing of beauty.

I'd love to see it more consistently. He isn't without hope, certainly. But he hasn't exactly been inspiring in these last 3 home games .

[jp03]

Using numbers is very flawed especially for a West Cost offense QB...

You gotta hang in there with Campbell another year! Eli was HORRIBLE his first 2 years. No vision , no ability to be a field general. No DOUBT Giant fans were ready to quit on him. Looking back now though, the Giant front office was right on. This guy needed to gain a little confidence and all his abitlity flowed out. Campbell has all the tools. He has to gain confidence. Go out and get an offensive line Did Eli a world of good.

[SonnyJ]

WHOOOO Who are these QB's getting it done with a poor line, no recievers and no continuity???? Nobody produces when they have all these issues.

It's funny. Speaking of the Saints, going into 2006 their OL was considered porous and their receivers nothing to write home about. Plus, they had a new coach coming in with a completely different offensive system. And their passing game exploded.

You think Drew Brees had something to do with that?

[LaxBuddy21]

The most telling stat there is Eli's 48 touchdowns to Campbells 32. Yes, Eli threw more interceptions and had a lower completion percentage but he was taking more risks and putting more points up on the board. I think thats what people here are looking for out of Campbell. Mistakes are ok as long as the positives outweigh them.

[LaxBuddy21]

I have been saying this for over a year.........THE ONLY STAT THAT REALLY MATTERS FOR A QB IS HIS WIN/LOSS RECORD. Start Colt NOW.....let's build for next season, see what the kid can do, and let Colt and Jason battle for the job in training camp next summer/fall.....

So since JC has a better than .500 record this year and has us in the playoff hunt, we should bench him for an unproven rookie? If win/loss is the only thing that matters then your argument negates itself.

[DCMONEY]

That's actually pretty apt. However, I think that Terry has always been a little under appreciated. He was a much better QB than a lot of people give him credit for.

That said, Eli Manning got hot in December of last year, and has stayed hot since then. The folks in NYC wanted to dump him like garbage in the early part of the season, and they booed him mercilessly and he played terribly at home, one of the reasons why the Giants had a better away record than home record last year.

WOW. Does that sound familiar? The 'Skins COULD (not saying they will, but COULD) end up with a 7-1 road record and 3-5 home record this year. I think if that happens, fans need to look in the mirror a little bit.

Slim Terry Bradshaw is one of the most over rated QB's of all time. Check out his average #'s at best. Once again lets not confuse a team's success with an individuals ability.

[Xameil]

Colt's a leader

and you have proof of this?

Oh it must have been in Colts extensive NFL career :doh:

From what I read....the team is behind JC and they have debunked all you "experts" theories.

[DCMONEY]

I'm with you, we continue to give Campbell chance after chance with only excuses as to why he hasn't delivered. "He's had 7 different coaches, his line is bad, his WR's suck, blah blah..." Listen, good QB's get it done with whatever they're given...period. It's time to realize that we can trade Campbell and get a LOT in return. Colt's a leader and it's time to see if he can make it happen the way Collins did after Campbell went down last year.

You believe that? I never knew a line, WR's, RB, changing a system 3 times in 4 years don't matter when trying to develop a young QB. Well you tell me what young QB has succeeded despite going aginst the odds that don't matter to you. I'll be waiting.

I guese the old Skins championship teams couldn't use your philosophy.

[corrupt3d]

You believe that? I never knew a line, WR's, RB, changing a system 3 times in 4 years don't matter when trying to develop a young QB. Well you tell me what young QB has succeeded despite going aginst the odds that don't matter to you. I'll be waiting.

I guese the old Skins championship teams couldn't use your philosophy.

Uh dude, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had new offensive systems every game in their rookie years. Campbell can't even handle one new system A YEAR.

Jeez man, act like you know something.

[corrupt3d]

I'm with you, we continue to give Campbell chance after chance with only excuses as to why he hasn't delivered. "He's had 7 different coaches, his line is bad, his WR's suck, blah blah..." Listen, good QB's get it done with whatever they're given...period. It's time to realize that we can trade Campbell and get a LOT in return. Colt's a leader and it's time to see if he can make it happen the way Collins did after Campbell went down last year.

The way you're talking up Colt, I figure we should trade him. Seems like we can get a lot more for him than Campbell, huh?

[NavyDave]

What is amazing is the 5 watt light bulbs not only will ignore the stats but have no patience for a guy with 32 starts and how many different systems?

Somehow some guy from a gimmick offense from a lame ***** conference is to be annoited like how the old ball coach had his ex gators looking good in the preseason.

Even if JC has the Eli hot streak there will be Redskins football observers still hoping the ex rainbow QB gets a run here.

[PeterMP]

Actually, we did see Campbell finally bring the Skins from behind to win against the Saints this year. And then he had the nice games on the road against Dallas and Philly.

But it seems like the past couple of years we've seen the early flashes of brilliance from JC, followed by average to mediocre play.

The thing that hurts JC is the direct comparison to his counterparts within the division. McNabb was 11-5 in his first full year as starter. Manning was also 11-5. Romo sits to pee, 13-3!

Campbell was 5-7 last season and, as Bulldog said in a post yesterday, I don't think we get to the playoffs if he doesn't go down against the Bears.

You can blame the line and receivers to a certain extent but sooner or later the QB has to step up. I suspect Campbell will be the starter next year, which will also be his contract year. Absent a complete breakdown of the defense, if we don't see marked improvement in the most important category--Ws and Ls--I think we might start looking for someone else to start in 2010.

And so far this year, I don't think Campbell has been treated harshly by the FedEx faithful at all.

Not like Manning. Again, here's the box from the 2006 Eagles game.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200609170phi.htm

Barber and Jacobs carried the ball 26 times for 86 yards (just over 3.3 yards/carry). Eli was sacked 8 times.

He was 31-43 for 371 yards 3 TD and only 1 INT. He threw a game winning bomb to Burress with a guy in his face that ended up hitting him.

On the year, Eli played some of his best games when the run game was it's worse in 2006. On five occassions the Giants didn't run for over 100 yards. One was Eli's best game (as by yards). The other was tied for 2nd (he passed for 270 twice- once when they went over 100 and once when they didn't (I'll count these as numbers 2 and 3 in the ranking)). His 4th and 6th best game was also under 100 yards rushing. All of these were over 200 yards passing. So of Eli's top 6 games 4 of them occurred when the other part of the offense (running the ball) was below avg.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2006.htm

Compare that to JC this year. We've not run for 100 yards 4 times this year rushing. Only once has JC gone over 200 yards (against the Giants). Only one of them (against the Giants) represents one of JC's top SIX games (the Gaints are his 3rd best game).

They do represent his worse games. Three of his four worse games (including the bottom 2) are games we didn't go for over 100 yards rushing.

There were games in 2006 where the Giants couldn't run the ball and Eli did a fairly good job, including the above Eagles game where Eli did REALLY GOOD. The opposite is true for JC.

You can't really look at the yearly statistics because you expect young QBs to be inconsistent so the good games get cancelled out with the bad ones. Eli's lows were lower than Campbell's, but his highs were higher. The key then is to figure out away to eliminate (or at least lessen) the lows. They've done that with Eli.

The flip side is if you think of the high being the person's max potential, then JC's max potential is no where near Eli's.

[dfos81]

Let the Qb get at least a couple seasons under the same system before we throw him out. I think most of the negative posts are Eagles fans posing

[DCMONEY]

Uh dude, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had new offensive systems every game in their rookie years. Campbell can't even handle one new system A YEAR.

Jeez man, act like you know something.

What? Slim stop smoking. They didn't have 3 systems in 4 years. Peyton Manning has been in the same system since damn near forever. With Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Marcus Pollard, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Roderick Rhodes, Joseph Addai and a beasty offensive lines. Tom Brady has been in the same system since day one. What are you talking about. Stop smoking. Get your facts str8 before talking slim.