Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 Not necessarily. Having a tall receiver that we can put out for jump balls in the redzone gives us more options. With the receivers we have, the teams know we have to hit them with quick slants our outs on a roll-out. Having good, tall receivers, imo, would help improve our TD % in the red-zone. Yes it gives us more options, but I'm not totally convinced that this is the be-all and end-all solution to the problem. Especially when you're talking about rookie receivers. Six of our nine touchdowns to date have been through the air. Five of the eight touchdowns in the red zone have been in the air. That concerns me a little. We need to get the red zone running game going to keep these defenses honest and to keep a balanced attack in that area. Also, good analysis MSF. You and I share the same concerns. But, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they'll improve those percentages by mid season, in time for a playoff push. Thanks for the kind words, prodigy. I'm really hoping that this straightens itself out in the next three to four games, but there is always that little bit in the back of my head that screams and rants "Losing those four points is gonna come back and screw us!!!" every time we kick a field goal of less than thirty-five yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Well Zorn said it in his presser today, he always wants the TD and hates those missed opportunities. Hopefully they will become even more efficient and make those 3's into 6's and really get rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 Well Zorn said it in his presser today, he always wants the TD and hates those missed opportunities. Hopefully they will become even more efficient and make those 3's into 6's and really get rolling. At least it's good to hear Zorn commenting that the field goals are not the desired end result of those possessions. Unfortunately in recent years the "company line" has been that so long as we're scoring there's nothing wrong. Hopefully this issue rectifies itself in the next couple weeks and we're on our way to a successful season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'm concerned but not TOO concerned. Rabach killed a touchdown twice on the same drive (as already stated) and the last series we were simply running the clock and playing for the field goal and didn't even give Campbell the ball to try to make a play for the first down. Penalties have stopped 3 TD's in 2 weeks (two on the same drive of course) so I think if the offense continues to improve we could have one of the better scoring offenses in the league. I also agree that this MSF is good to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'm concerned but not TOO concerned. I'm not jumping off a bridge over this either, JMU; but it's something that I have seen now for multiple weeks that does have me a little concerned. Rabach killed a touchdown twice on the same drive (as already stated) and the last series we were simply running the clock and playing for the field goal and didn't even give Campbell the ball to try to make a play for the first down.Penalties have stopped 3 TD's in 2 weeks (two on the same drive of course) so I think if the offense continues to improve we could have one of the better scoring offenses in the league. The Rabach penalties don't make a huge difference in these computations. We still got a Field Goal out of that drive, so it's only a 4 point difference in the entire computation and it's only one possession in the nineteen total possessions. The TD pulled off the board last week wouldn't affect the "scoring zone" numbers because the play was longer than 33 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Skins seem to be regularly driving deep into the red zone ... then try to punch it in. Not a high percentage approach. I think Zorn ought to take more shots at the endzone before he gets to the 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28rdsknsfn28 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I am still a little concerned with the Red Zone scoring 16 times 8 TD 7 FG Puts them at 93.8 percent of the time they score which is 5th (with one above us being Detroit who has score 3 out of 3 times) BUT on TD's only 50% which is 16th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 Skins seem to be regularly driving deep into the red zone ... then try to punch it in. Not a high percentage approach. I think Zorn ought to take more shots at the endzone before he gets to the 20. Greg, I think part of that has to do with the newness of the system and the fact that we're looking to control the clock in addition to scoring. I do agree that I'd like to see us be a little more aggressive towards the end zone when we're between the 15 and the 35 but I don't see this being a big "downfield" passing game for at least a couple of weeks still. I am still a little concerned with the Red Zone scoring16 times 8 TD 7 FG Puts them at 93.8 percent of the time they score which is 5th (with one above us being Detroit who has score 3 out of 3 times) BUT on TD's only 50% which is 16th. See, I'm looking at two things slightly differently. First off, I thing the "Red Zone" concept is a little limiting. As I discussed, I look at the "Scoring Zone"; which is the 1/3 of the field closest to our offensive end zone. It's effectively the range (50 yards) of most decent kickers, and I think a more realistic concept than the "Red Zone" that we've all heard about for years. Secondly, simply scoring isn't always good enough. A field goal does you no good when you're down by four points. The Touchdown needs to be the goal, not simply scoring. That's where we need to focus the offensive attention, so far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinpride1 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 :silly:This is a brand new pass offense this year and it looks better than anything I've seen from the skins in a long time. I'm excited because I think it's going to get better with time. What is our points per game average this year? I'm willing to bet it's better than last year!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Man that was a lot to read! Sorry didnt get all the way thru it. My take...Considering we scored three times on one drive yesterday, I'd say the OOOOOOOfense is doing just fine right now (and that was with Jansen in the lineup)! What we would have given for this offensive production under Gibbs 2, and we made the paleoffs twice! Just think how putrid it was barely putting up 17 a game. And... How bout that DEFENSE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 After Week One, I worried that we might never get an offense going. So, weakness in the red zone sounds like a trivial problem by comparison. We have won three games by small margins, but those margins are deceiving. None of those victories over three good teams can be called a fluke. Although the Rabach misfires would have added only one score to your stats, MSF, we scored twice in the red zone against Dallas that didn't count. Are we concerned with the stats here or our ability to score in the red zone? This offense is still a work in progress. As Oldschool mentioned, Coach Z has redzone targets still in his quiver. We should get better when he has a chance to work them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 Although the Rabach misfires would have added only one score to your stats, MSF, we scored twice in the red zone against Dallas that didn't count. Are we concerned with the stats here or our ability to score in the red zone? A little bit of both, Oldfan. Obviously scoring and winning are more important that some set of stats come up with by a guy in his mid-30's who has no connection to any NFL team, but I think the stats do show a significant concern with this offense (at least in my mind). I'm not trying to create an arguement, but we DIDN'T score three times on that drive. TWICE on that drive 10 of the 11 players on the field did their jobs. Unfortunately in the NFL is takes all 11 players doing their job for scores to count. In both cases Casey Rabach screwed his teammates and his team out of points. So far as history is concerned neither of those plays existed. I do truly hope that his teammates have taken Casey aside and explained their displeasure with him over this. I'm sure the coaches have. It takes a FULL TEAM effort to score. That means if even a single guy screws up, everyone pays for the error. Those type of mental mistakes cannot be tolerated if this team wants to be among the elites in this league. The stats are simply a mathematical explaination of the issue that I see. Regardless of whether the factor that is holding this team back is mental errors, play calling, on-field execution, or anything else is essentially irrelevant. They need to look at it, fix it, and move on to better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNoles21 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The play where campbell threw it to the corner of the endzone and the receiver caught but was out of bounds pretty much sums it up. That play is used frequently by basically every team and we cant do it because of the receivers we have. Develop Kelly, Thomas, and Davis and that gives you three MONSTER targets in the red zone to go along with cooley. That is the sole reason we drafted all three of those guys. As the season progresses and over the next couple of years you will see those three guys begin to improve and drastically help our red zone play. Campbell will get them the ball theres no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meskeet21 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The play where campbell threw it to the corner of the endzone and the receiver caught but was out of bounds pretty much sums it up. That play is used frequently by basically every team and we cant do it because of the receivers we have. Develop Kelly, Thomas, and Davis and that gives you three MONSTER targets in the red zone to go along with cooley. That is the sole reason we drafted all three of those guys. As the season progresses and over the next couple of years you will see those three guys begin to improve and drastically help our red zone play. Campbell will get them the ball theres no doubt about it. i noticed that as well. i think thomas was lined up on the otherside, the fade shoulda went to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmeworry Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 On the bright side we're scoring with our receivers this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gymratfwp Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'll give credit where credit is due, great post Mass., I defintiely agree with you. The one issue that I have with the team...and the biggest problem that I had with last years team was not capitalizing on opportunities to score TD's and settling on FG's...The one thing that has saved us, in my opinion, is the thus far stellar (knock on wood) play of JC. He has blown me away by his growth as a player thus far into the season, and hopefully this is just the beginning. The rest of the team is starting to click really well, and I really do think that that is a result of JC's growth at the hands of Jim Zorn. Early in the season, defintiely...a lot more games to play, definitely... But up to this point in the season, I believe that Jim Zorn was the best addition to this team in a long time. I have been a fan for all of my life, thankfully, and I have never been so excited at this point of the season as I am now. -paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Are TD's better than FG's,,,YES! brilliant observation. We'll only win 3 games huh?, that's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I think as the offense continues to improve, so will that number. I'd be interested to see what those numbers are if you factor in the TDs that called back though. However, a penalty is a penalty and part of the game, and like them or not it would be cherry picking the stats. Still good and useful info though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Wow, Mass. You seem practically euphoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 On the bright side we're scoring with our receivers this year. Week 4 and our #1, #2 and #3 receivers have all caught TD passes. I can't remember the last time that's happened (literally, I can't lol). It sure didn't happen last season, or in 2006...or in 2005...or in 2004. Maybe in 2003 under Spurrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Wow, Mass. You seem practically euphoric. Seriously...and it's kinda creepy lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'm more worried about the team being able to win games after they start turning it over some. There will be a game sooner or later where we have 3+ turnovers and that is when the TD's will matter and FG's just wont cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3gauss Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Rest of the NFC East not including killing the clock or overtime. Dallas Posessions 19 TD 11 (57.8%) FG 4 (21%) Turnovers 4 (21%) 89 out of a possible 133 points (66.9%) Giants Posessions 14 TD 7 (50%) FG 7 (50%) Turnovers 0 (0%) 70 out of a possible 98 points (71.4%) Eagles Posessions 24 TD 10 (41.6%) FG 8 (33%) Turnovers 2 (8.3%) 94 out of a possible 168 points (55.9%) At 60.4% we are looking pretty good considering the fact that these are all systems that have been around for multiple years and they have all played at least one gimme game (St. Louis and Cleveland) where as we have played only tough teams so far. I do agree we need to improve but it seems to me 75% is a lot, 70% would be a solid showing. I do believe we will imporve though, as I and several others said it is a new scheme we should only improve as the season goes on. Edit-- If we had gotten into the end zone instead of the field goal when we got called back twice and made those 3 fgs instead of missing them we would be at 69.9% so really it is just really dumb foul ups that are keeping us from the 70% we should be getting, the numbers will definitely go up as the year progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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