Let's make a little offensive comparison here.

[Hubbs]

So, after last Thursday, it seems that a large chunk of the fanbase believes that Zorn is doomed to failure and Campbell will never make it as an NFL quarterback. While I do worry about Campbell, I'd like to point something out regarding the extrapolation of the entire season from one game.

Seattle, which is where our brand-spanking-new offense comes from, played Buffalo this weekend. Seattle's head coach, Mike Holmgren, has been to three Super Bowls, won one of them, built some of the most prolific quarterbacks of all time, and is almost certainly going to be a Hall of Famer once he retires. Seattle's quarterback, Matt Hasselbeck, has led his team to a Super Bowl, four consecutive division titles, and is a three-time Pro Bowler.

On Sunday, Hasselbeck went 17/41 for 190 yards, one touchdown, and one interception. The Seahawks converted only 3 of 16 third downs, and lost to the Bills 34-10.

What does it all mean? Well, those who are making snap judgments about our offense, our coach, and our quarterback based off of the Giants game would, using the same logic, come to the conclusion that Mike Holmgren is in over his head, Matt Hasselbeck needs to be replaced as soon as possible, and the Holmgren offense doesn't work. Obviously, none of that is true. So if the Seahawks can lay a big, fat egg in Buffalo without worrying that they need to blow everything up and start over, maybe, just maybe, the Redskins can do the same in New York.

[kingfish50]

The logic here is that JC is making the same mistakes, if not more, as he did last year. I can understand learning a new system but his problems are those that should have been learned or corrected years ago, the basic fundamentals of QB'ing.

Everybody compares JC to Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck's problem was learning the WCO, not how to play quarterback in the NFL.

[bowhunter]

The logic here is that JC is making the same mistakes, if not more, as he did last year. I can understand learning a new system but his problems are those that should have been learned or corrected years ago, the basic fundamentals of QB'ing.

Everybody compares JC to Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck's problem was learning the WCO, not how to play quarterback in the NFL.

He said, I just happen to agree with him. The difference is that Hasselback has shown himself to be a great QB. While we are still waiting for JC to prove to us that he can do it. Stumble once and you can blame the sidewalk, stumble twice and you're just drunk, stumble three times and maybe you just are unable to walk in this league.

I want JC to play well and fully play up to his POTENTIAL. Can an NFL QB do it any faster than 3 years time? We'll see

[Soup]

you know what would be funny is Malcolm Kelly coming out on sunday against the saints

and he has such chemistry with Campbell that we all go nuts and start making threads about the superbowl.

[Hubbs]

The logic here is that JC is making the same mistakes, if not more, as he did last year. I can understand learning a new system but his problems are those that should have been learned or corrected years ago, the basic fundamentals of QB'ing.

Everybody compares JC to Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck's problem was learning the WCO, not how to play quarterback in the NFL.

Really? Because Hasselbeck looked worse than Campbell until something like his sixth season in the league.

[Fight for ole DC]

I appreciate what you are saying and I too noticed the Seahawks score, but with a different perspective. I saw how terrible seattle looked without their QB coach from last year (and with our QB coach from last year). Now that Zorn is our "QB" coach I'm hoping our QB will begin to look like seattle's QB play last year.

I have no problem with Zorn and what he is doing with the Redskins. My only problem is with JC and his lack of improvement in his game. Using logic, hasselback has won in this league and so having one bad game does not earn him the criticism that JC is getting. He has earned enough respect by his play to get a free pass, at least for a few more games. JC has bad games far more often than he has good games. He has won nothing in this league. He's had a few nice games but they are far and few between = inconsistency. My biggest problem with JC is that he makes the same mistakes over and over and over. Drops back to pass, first option not "open", stands still like a statue waiting for 1st option to get open, throw if "open", if not "open" take a sack or dump off for 2 yard gain. Step up in the pocket-never, step left/right to avoid pressure-never, scramble-rare, throw the ball away-never, look at other side of field to see if another receiving option is open-never/can't?.

I'm sorry, but JC is never going to be a good NFL QB. I like the guy, I just don't want him playing for the team I passionately cheer for every week and have cheered for for over 35 years. Yea, I will cheer for him anytime he is playing because I love the Redskins, but I will lack confidence in his ability to lead this team to victory.

Meanshile, I will enjoy watching Seattle tumble to the ranks of never-one-a-super-bowl teams with the Redskins old QB coach "coaching" hasselback and Seattle's ole QB coach leading the Redskins.

[ntotoro]

you know what would be funny is Malcolm Kelly coming out on sunday against the saints and he has suck chemistry with Campbell...

:paranoid:

[ttr77]

Seattle has proven that they can win. Big difference.

[flexxskins]

you know what would be funny is Malcolm Kelly coming out on sunday against the saints

and he has suck chemistry with Campbell that we all go nuts and start making threads about the superbowl.

Why make this about Kelly though? If Campbell can't get the basic fundamentals of QBing down, then Moss, El, Thrash, Thomas, Cooley and Kelly are all just moot points.

[SnyderMustGo]

Here's a comparison for you:

We had the 5th WORST offense in the league in the first week.

How's that comparison for you?

[Aghar]

No way. Cannot make this comparison. Hasselbeck and Holmgren have proven that they CAN win. Campbell and Zorn have not. Can you argue that our offense has looked, well, catatonic for the last three games? Has not really showed the ability to move the ball at all? There was no flow to our offense at all lately. No rythm. Nothing. You cannot compare a west coast team traveling across country for their first game and looking poorly after making it to the playoffs last season(again) with a veteran coach and QB to the Redskins, with a new coach and new system.:2cents:

[ouvan59]

Personally, I wasn't as concerned with the numbers as I was how we looked. A perfect example of that is the 4th down and 15 play that we had towards the end of the game. We had 3 receivers go out on that play and not one single one of them ran a pattern that would have netted us a first down. Not one. It was jaw-droppingly alarming. I was critical of Joe Gibbs last year for not putting his players in a position where they could make mistakes and learn from them which also has the side effect of not putting them in the position to make plays. Zorn did that in spades on Monday. He made Gibbs look like a gambler.

There have been a number of discussions on what would be an acceptable record for the Skins this year and I always say it all depends on how it happens. 7-9 could very well be an acceptable record depending on how it happens. If we show steady improvement and look like we could build into something great down the road I can live with that. On the flip side, we could finish with a record better than that but play like we did on Monday much of the year and I will consider this year to be a failure. The final score of the game was 16-7 but it sure felt like a blowout.

[skins4eva]

:paranoid:

Hahahahahahah!

:dj:

I'll add some more substance...proven QB, proven coach, proven system, bad game. That's what Seattle did Sunday...

Skins: QB who has yet to prove himself, coach who has yet to prove himself, system that apparently has no hurry up or no-huddle offense....

[jflow78]

The logic here is that JC is making the same mistakes, if not more, as he did last year. I can understand learning a new system but his problems are those that should have been learned or corrected years ago, the basic fundamentals of QB'ing.

Everybody compares JC to Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck's problem was learning the WCO, not how to play quarterback in the NFL.

Actuall, until Hasselbeck got to Seattle, he was a backup. So, he was learning the offense and trying to prove he could play in the NFL, he'd thrown a combined 29 passes in his two previous seasons.

Once he got to Seattle, they almost ran Holmgren out of town because he "stuck" with Hasselbeck, against media and fan's wishes. He wasn't great:

2002 Seattle Seahawks 16 games 267/419 63.7% 3,075yds 192.2 pr/gm

15 tds 10 ints 87.8 rtng

2001 Seattle Seahawks 13 games 176/321 54.8% 2,023yds 155.6 pr/gm

7 tds 8 ints 70.9 rtng

JC's numbers aren't that far off, and he's learned one offense, and now learning another. But to say that Hasselbeck is great and everyone new it from the time he came in the league is a little ridiculous. People were saying almost the same things about him as they say about JC. I'm not a JC lover, I just want someone to play good at QB regardless of who it is, but I have a hard time believing that he has "proven" he can't play in this league yet.

And, Ouvan59, I completely agree with you. I think our D held up better in the 2nd half, but part of that was due to the Giants offense becoming, mostly, one dimensional. At least it seemed that way to me. It seemed like the Giants went to the run game more in the 2nd half.

[LD0506]

I think that maybe the most mind-bogglingly unbelievable thing that I have seen this week is the seeming viewpoint that there is some case to make, some facts not mentioned, some twist that can be put on things that will somehow make the the chicken littles suddenly wake up and admit "Oh, ok, things aren't as bad as I thought, I just overreacted when I did my 6 yr old girl imitation"

Nice post by the OP but it won't do any good.

[HBnotBlades]

Once he got to Seattle, they almost ran Holmgren out of town because he "stuck" with Hasselbeck, against media and fan's wishes. He wasn't great:

2002 Seattle Seahawks 16 games 267/419 63.7% 3,075yds 192.2 pr/gm

15 tds 10 ints 87.8 rtng

2001 Seattle Seahawks 13 games 176/321 54.8% 2,023yds 155.6 pr/gm

7 tds 8 ints 70.9 rtng

Exactly! Learning the WCO is not a one offseason task. Just as the development of WR's is not a one offseason task. Just as becoming a great head coach is not a one offseason task.

Patience with all of these things could prove to be greatly rewarding in the next couple years when the players, coaches and scheme are all on the same page.

[jflow78]

I think that maybe the most mind-bogglingly unbelievable thing that I have seen this week is the seeming viewpoint that there is some case to make, some facts not mentioned, some twist that can be put on things that will somehow make the the chicken littles suddenly wake up and admit "Oh, ok, things aren't as bad as I thought, I just overreacted when I did my 6 yr old girl imitation"

Nice post by the OP but it won't do any good.

I don't care whether or not you "suddenly wake up". A message board is for opinions, that's all I put on here. I'll give you my reasoning, non-emotional most of the time, about why I think the season isn't lost yet. I've seen worse. If you want to panic and freak out, go for it man, just don't expect me to do it with you. I'm not a big "emotion" guy, so when I see stats that say things will usually pan out and we're not going to be 0-16 this season, that's what I'm going with 99% of the time.

I agree with you HBnotBlades, I think the problem is that people have these extremely inflated expectations and when they're not met immediately they go crazy. Most rookie head coaches don't have a ton of success in their first season. Most offenses don't look good when they're newly installed. Most QBs take a few years to develop. It's like everyone thinks because this is our team, we're going to be one of those exceptions.

[jtyler42]

Everbody keeps saying that this is a valid comparison because Hasselbeck and Holmgren have proven they can win.

Tell me this...HOW LONG DID IT TAKE? How long did it take before Hasselbeck became the product we see today? In looking at Hasselbeck's career it looks like it took him until his third yr under Holmgren/Zorn before he really took to the QB position...Hasselbeck already knew the offense from his 2 back-up yrs in GB and it still took him 3 MORE YRS of playing time So that's 5 seasons(JC is just starting yr 4)...Hasselbeck has had only 2 seasons with a QB rating over 90 and has had some pretty ordinary stats in his other seasons...

The fact remains without patience the QB situation here in DC is never going to get any better whether it's with JC, CB5, or a rookie that we draft...Everybody wants to build a team through the draft on this board but then don't want to allow the draft picks time to improve...

[phokus]

The irony is that in the locker room after the game, JC says "it's not like we're gonna come out the first game and look like the Seattle Seahawks in their first game..."

I'm still faithful. He's a rhythm QB who hasn't quite nestled into a rhythm yet. He's had enough time, yes, but hasn't had the OL, WRs and play calling on his side until recently. Also, those bombs to Thrash and Moss where there and should've been caught. Moss cannot give up on routes - did anyone else hear a whistle?

[kingfish50]

He said, I just happen to agree with him. The difference is that Hasselback has shown himself to be a great QB. While we are still waiting for JC to prove to us that he can do it. Stumble once and you can blame the sidewalk, stumble twice and you're just drunk, stumble three times and maybe you just are unable to walk in this league.

I want JC to play well and fully play up to his POTENTIAL. Can an NFL QB do it any faster than 3 years time? We'll see

So you're willing to wait another 3 years? Answer me this, has JC improved his play at QB'ing in the last 2 years of him playing full time? I'm not talking about learning the "system", I'm talking about his poor knowledge of the basics that a QB should already know playing in the "NFL".

[kingfish50]

Really? Because Hasselbeck looked worse than Campbell until something like his sixth season in the league.

Oh this is even better, let's wait for 6 more years! :doh:

[Xameil]

Isn't it funny how Zorn said after the 8th game after Zorn got there Hasselback was benched...and that was after 4 years in the league...so...tell me should we have patience?

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

The logic here is that JC is making the same mistakes, if not more, as he did last year. I can understand learning a new system but his problems are those that should have been learned or corrected years ago, the basic fundamentals of QB'ing.

Everybody compares JC to Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck's problem was learning the WCO, not how to play quarterback in the NFL.

Hmmmm...this is very interesting. It is interesting because the only way for you to know that Hasselbeck knew how to play QB, and not the WCO would have been for you watch all the Seattle games a couple of years back. The years that Hasselbeck was learning the system, but schooling everyone in how to play the position. And if so, could you give some examples of what you saw that proved this point. If not though, please refrain from making points that you have no idea are actually true or not.

[TheItalianStallion]

Personally, I wasn't as concerned with the numbers as I was how we looked. A perfect example of that is the 4th down and 15 play that we had towards the end of the game. We had 3 receivers go out on that play and not one single one of them ran a pattern that would have netted us a first down. Not one. It was jaw-droppingly alarming.

Are you talking about the play where JC scrambled out to his right, looked downfield for a while then dumped it off to Betts? If so, then you're wrong; at least 2 receivers went past the marker on that play.

[TheItalianStallion]

So you're willing to wait another 3 years? Answer me this, has JC improved his play at QB'ing in the last 2 years of him playing full time? I'm not talking about learning the "system", I'm talking about his poor knowledge of the basics that a QB should already know playing in the "NFL".

People really need to stop saying things like this. He has ALREADY shown that he can be effective (as of the injury he was on pace for close to 3,500 yards). For all this talk of "lack of basics" that I'm hearing on ES, I suppose that's why he chopped up the #1 pass D in the league last year without the help of a running game.