Spurrier era, round 2 ???

[corrupt3d]

You may be an elder, but we are all fans of this team and we all want to see this team do well. However, once again I encourage you to read back through the entire thread with an open and unbiased eye. It's none to flattering. I for one would be ashamed to resort to the tactics used in this thread as responses/defenses.

:2cents:

I'm not happy either with the way this thread turned out. But he played the age card first, and when fired upon, criticized us for 'not respecting him'.

If he truly was an elder who commanded respect, he would have handled the situation a lot better...OP, take some notes from Rudechain.

[Zarg]

A legitimate question.

An "over-the-top" uncalled for toned response. Last time I checked, this was a forum where this kind of stuff can be discussed.

Confrontational, yet some would say warranted, considering the response he got to an honest question.

Just a bit of evidence that you're providing to prove FanSinceSonnJ's assertion regarding being "barely old enough" to remember the Spurrier era.

I really cannot understand why some of you (and a lot of you are in, but not restricted to, your twenties) insist on turning honest ponderings into personal affronts that, in turn, require attack reponses from you. Harder still to understand why many of you, because someone has a different opinion than you, then gang up on whoever you deem the offender and then swarm on them like a school of pirahna. Yet, the hardest thing to understand is why the Mods allow this kind of stuff to continue.

No joke...I am nominating this post for post of the year... Jurgyfan... you are my hero. Thank you for shedding some light on a really undeserved gang attack on FanSinceSonnJ. They're peoples opinions, and they should not be ridiculed for it..... :applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[Rudechain]

Nice job of selective cutting and pasting guy. Quite frankly I could give a rip what you think. I'm ready to move on, but reserve the right to fire when fired upon. LOL.

Good evening.

For the record, my response was a result of the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tml6157

So this is another thread about someone being concerned with our play so far. Why don't you try posting your thoughts in the other 22858346678676 active threads about the same thing.

As far as Spurrier? HELL NO! He tried to bring in every Florida player and run a college scheme in the NFL. Zorn is using the WCO which has been in success for decades.

Why don't you watch your tone with me please young one. At 22, your barely old enough to remember the Spurrier era...much less our glory years. At your age, you may be delighted with middling results, some of us veteran fans have higher standards.

Let's hope Zorn is just playing possum with what we saw the past couple of weeks. Otherwise, it's going to be a long season.

I read the entire thread and double checked to see if I was wrong. However, my point still stands.

You sound like a bitter old man that feels he gets no respect. That's your choice to feel that way. However, you should WATCH YOUR TONE WITH ME YOU OLD ONE!!!!

I gave you the respect you desired, even though you seem to not be able to give respect to others. And your defense of inane and immature content is in no way a reasoning for acting like a 10 year old stuck in the basement of his parents house practicing the art of one handed typing.

This is a public message board. You need to have a thick skin and realize the anonymity of the internet gives people bravado or machismo. ( it's quiet obvious that it does to you cause I seriously doubt you would speak to me in person like you do on this board)

chill out, look at this objectively, and let stuff go. Defending the indefensible is making you out to look like a think skinned, immmature and bitter ten year old.

[Rudechain]

I'm not happy either with the way this thread turned out. But he played the age card first, and when fired upon, criticized us for 'not respecting him'.

If he truly was an elder who commanded respect, he would have handled the situation a lot better...OP, take some notes from Rudechain.

True: the thread had some potential to be very informative and be a vehicle for healthy debate. Alas, it has denigrated into a pissing contest.

the ancient one as well as the post he initially responded to could have been worded better but it was not to be.

[ouvan59]

The guy from The Goonies? No. No he wasn't.

He never played for the Skins in the regular season but he was a Redskin in 1976 but was cut in preseason.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I read the entire thread and double checked to see if I was wrong. However, my point still stands.

You sound like a bitter old man that feels he gets no respect. That's your choice to feel that way. However, you should WATCH YOUR TONE WITH ME YOU OLD ONE!!!!

I gave you the respect you desired, even though you seem to not be able to give respect to others. And your defense of inane and immature content is in no way a reasoning for acting like a 10 year old stuck in the basement of his parents house practicing the art of one handed typing.

This is a public message board. You need to have a thick skin and realize the anonymity of the internet gives people bravado or machismo. ( it's quiet obvious that it does to you cause I seriously doubt you would speak to me in person like you do on this board)

chill out, look at this objectively, and let stuff go. Defending the indefensible is making you out to look like a think skinned, immmature and bitter ten year old.

Lucky for me, you are neither the judge or jury around here. LOL. Trust me guy, my skin is plenty thick. The piling on that goes on around here for anything other than waving pom poms at all decisions made by the "braintrust" of this team dictates mighty thick skin.

Anway, as I've stated, I'm ready to move on. Apparantly you and a handful of others want to dwell on how I supposedly offended an entire generation. Whatever.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

No joke...I am nominating this post for post of the year... Jurgyfan... you are my hero. Thank you for shedding some light on a really undeserved gang attack on FanSinceSonnJ. They're peoples opinions, and they should not be ridiculed for it..... :applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

Many thanks. I continue to be astounded by the endless attacks, cheap shots directed my way for simply speaking my mind and firing back at some youngster who attempted to dismiss my post as repetitive. I guess in his mind there are thousands of other of posts on this forum pondering the similarities of Spurrier and Zorn's early successes in preseason. LOL.

:gaintsuck

[erock353]

You're old, we get it

Beat me to it.

I don't how team fans can argue with other fans because they weren't around when the team was good. I actually embrace younger fans I know for pulling for a team that hasn't done much. Most younger people tend to jump on the bandwagon of teams that are winning. I think its great that we have fans that don't rememeber watching the last super bowl, but yet they done their homework on all the super bowl victories. I don't remember the '82 super bowl, does that mean all my feelings for this team are pointless? No, not at all.

But, then again I never saw Sonny Jurgensen play.

[erock353]

I'll leave the age debate to others. My only comment is that age is not the sole measuring stick for how well an ES fan understands the nuances of NFL football or possesses an in-depth understanding of the history of the Redskins.

As a diversion from this 'age' issue, here's a litmus test on football history that most "older" Skins' fans wouldn't need to resort to Wikipedia to answer:

-- True or False?: The 'Tooz' was once a Redskin.

And now to the thread's original question: Is the Zorn era a remake of the Spurrier era? ...My answer is that it is way too early to say.

I'd note that Zorn's NFL credentials are much better than Spurrier's, and he seems to take the game more seriously. Also, Zorn has had the opportunity to work with a lot of head coaches (Holmgren, Patera, Erickson, Knox) and he seems like a sharp, hard-working guy who could take advantage of the situation and learn alot.

And Zorn is not another Steve Spurrier. True, Zorn is foregoing some of the 'protective features' of the Gibbs offense (we probably won't see too many 'maximum-protection' packages) but I suspect he's not going to the "Fun-&-Gun" style of playcalling. I'd note that unlike Spurrier, Zorn is working with another offensive coordinator (Sherman Smith) who has good NFL credentials. Consequently, Zorn's version of the WCO seems well-grounded, and he's keeping people who could prosper in such a system. And unlike Spurrier, Zorn is not signing up his old cronies (otherwise we'd have signed Hackett and Alexander).

But frankly, this is not whether Zorn is another 'Steve Spurrier'. It's whether the team can produce under Zorn -- and that remains to be seen. While I like the play-scheme adjustments I've seen, this team's success in 2008 will hinge on: (1) whether Campbell is a bona-fide WCO QB, and (2) whether our aging defense can keep games close while the offense adapts to the WCO.

So I don't think we should overreact to the preseason. I think many of the veteran players were simply trying to emerge uninjured, and that Zorn was not using much of his playbook.

And while it may take a while (perhaps even as long as three seasons) I suspect Zorn will turn out to be a great coach for the Skins.

In conclusion, this is not Spurrier-2. Zorn/Smiths offensive play-schemes are sound -- but it still remains to be seen how well those plays will be executed. And if players can't handle their duties, I think Zorn and/or the FO will find someone who can handle those duties.

Very nice, but it leads me to ask. How old are you?

[RalphZero]

I certainly would not compare Zorn to Spurrier.

Spurrier was a joke. However, it was Snyder And Vinny's fault for hiring Spurrier. Just like it was Snyder and Vinny's fault for trading a 2nd and 6th round pick to Bill Parcells for some washed up loser(Jason Taylor).

Zorn might be a great coach. However, the team is lacking in the front office department.

The Redskins have one of the worst D-Lines in the NFL. The O-Line is old and forced to learn a new playbook every off-season.

When the Redskins go 4-12, can we please not blame Zorn?

[ttr77]

Friendly advice, you need to go to your local community college for a reading comprehension class :doh:...I called him out for thinking he knows more about the Redskins just because he is OLDER...

I said I know more about about 90 percent of people about FOOTBALL in general, 90 percent of people isn't "anyone else" and it isn't specifically about the Redskins...This is because I inspire to be a coach and I put forth alot more effort to learn as much as I can about the game, and I have studied for endless hours about the best sport there is...

And uh, I made my account when I was 12 or 13...I didn't know if you had to be a certain age to make an account so I put a fake birthday just to be sure. In NUMEROUS posts and THREADS, I have stated my REAL age. That is hardly considered "masquerading" .

I guess since im young I must be less intelligent or less knowledgeable? Well if thats true its kind of pathetic to take shots at me you had to state nothing but false info in your post calling me out...I'm a teenager and I'm more mature then you, grow up.

Thanks for the advice. I'll certainly work on my reading comprehension skills. And I'll make sure to study everyone's entire posting history before replying to one of their posts.

And judging by the way you play both offense and defense, perhaps the Skins could use you on the actual playing field.

[Wyvern]

Originally Posted by Wyvern

As a diversion from this 'age' issue, here's a litmus test on football history that most "older" Skins' fans wouldn't need to resort to Wikipedia to answer:

-- True or False?: The 'Tooz' was once a Redskin.

corrupt3d

The guy from The Goonies? No. No he wasn't.

He never played for the Skins in the regular season but he was a Redskin in 1976 but was cut in preseason.

We have a winner!! John Matuszak (DE, 270 lbs.) was the first pick of 1973 draft by Houston and wound up --briefly-- with the Redskins under George Allen. After he was cut by the Skins in pre-season, he hooked up with the Raiders and went on to contribute to the Raiders' wins in Superbowl XI and XV. In 1982 he went into acting, and yes ... Goonies was one of his films.

[markmx]

Slap fight....

[Redskinsgirl23]

Zorn = Spurrier? No way! Please, just the mention of Spurrier brings back bad memories! Makes me wanna hurl!

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Zorn = Spurrier? No way! Please, just the mention of Spurrier brings back bad memories! Makes me wanna hurl!

Let's just hope this team does not play as horrible as they did the last 2 preseason games.

[corrupt3d]

We have a winner!! John Matuszak (DE, 270 lbs.) was the first pick of 1973 draft by Houston and wound up --briefly-- with the Redskins under George Allen. After he was cut by the Skins in pre-season, he hooked up with the Raiders and went on to contribute to the Raiders' wins in Superbowl XI and XV. In 1982 he went into acting, and yes ... Goonies was one of his films.

Sorry, thought you meant "played", as in had some game time. I knew he was, yet somehow didn't combine 2 and 2.

[elkabong82]

Many thanks. I continue to be astounded by the endless attacks, cheap shots directed my way for simply speaking my mind and firing back at some youngster who attempted to dismiss my post as repetitive. I guess in his mind there are thousands of other of posts on this forum pondering the similarities of Spurrier and Zorn's early successes in preseason. LOL.

:gaintsuck

Instead of defending your post with actual facts and stats, you went into attack mode on the younger guy. Then you made a bunch of BS, unfair, sweeping generalizations about my age group. If you made such generalizations about other groups, you wouldn't still be posting on ES.

In all the crying about how the subject is a good one worthy of conversation, none of you have conversed about it. Instead you and the older people who support you point the finger back instead of taking your own advice. Everything you are complaining about, you have done the same to others in here, yet you have the audacity to demand respect simply because of your age. Respect is earned, not inherited, and your actions in this thread are not deserving of any respect.

BTW, notice how us young guys haven't had to resort to stupid generalizations about an entire age group, rather stuck with you, the actual offender. Now you and your cronies can go back to the blame game, and wondering what on earth you did to deserve such a backlash, but please actually consider what some of us have said. You know perfectly well what you did to offend, and all you did in this post was sweep it under the rug as if it's no big deal. Since attacking the poster, and ignorantly making comments about my entire age group, you haven't once tried to continue the subject you brought up, rather you've continued stupid generalizations of "youngsters" and responded to those who support you as if you have no idea how it all happened. And then you really wonder why you aren't getting respect? People don't respect hypocrites.

[JurgyFan]

Instead of defending your post with actual facts and stats, you went into attack mode on the younger guy. Then you made a bunch of BS, unfair, sweeping generalizations about my age group. If you made such generalizations about other groups, you wouldn't still be posting on ES.

Maybe, but he was responding to a disrespectful or rude(depending on one's point of view) response that was made in response to his inaugural post. Things snowballed from there.

In all the crying about how the subject is a good one worthy of conversation, none of you have conversed about it. Instead you and the older people who support you point the finger back instead of taking your own advice. Everything you are complaining about, you have done the same to others in here, yet you have the audacity to demand respect simply because of your age. Respect is earned, not inherited, and your actions in this thread are not deserving of any respect.

You should read your own words.

Correction: several posters (young and old), have discussed or tried to discuss the original topic. Things had calmed down and people(young and old) were starting to comment on the original topic before this post.

BTW, notice how us young guys haven't had to resort to stupid generalizations about an entire age group, rather stuck with you, the actual offender. Now you and your cronies can go back to the blame game, and wondering what on earth you did to deserve such a backlash, but please actually consider what some of us have said. You know perfectly well what you did to offend, and all you did in this post was sweep it under the rug as if it's no big deal. Since attacking the poster, and ignorantly making comments about my entire age group, you haven't once tried to continue the subject you brought up, rather you've continued stupid generalizations of "youngsters" and responded to those who support you as if you have no idea how it all happened. And then you really wonder why you aren't getting respect? People don't respect hypocrites.

Again, you should read your own words.

And, again, this debate was more or less over until you saw fit to crank it back up. Nope, it is you that has not only started the negativity up again on this thread, but you are guilty of exactly what you claim older posters are guilty of...that of "stupid generalizations" (your words, not mine). How are you guilty of stupid generalizations? By statements like, "Instead you and the older people who support you point the finger back instead of taking your own advice" and "Now you and your cronies can go back to the blame game, and wondering what on earth you did to deserve such a backlash, but please actually consider what some of us have said."

If you read the thread from beginning to end, you will notice, several posters above the age of 30 have posted and have refused to take a side or hurl accusations. Actually, if you look at your posts in this thread, the argument could be made that it is you who won't let the age thing go, because other than your first post(which actually discussed the thread topic, wonder of wonders), you've been harping on one or the other age related slights that took place days ago and have already been worn threadbare.

I have no problem with you hopping on a soapbox, but get the gist of the issue correct before pontificating. It makes for a more effective pontification.

This isn't an age-related thing anymore, it's a "let it go" thing. Older and younger.

[elkabong82]

Maybe, but he was responding to a disrespectful or rude(depending on one's point of view) response that was made in response to his inaugural post. Things snowballed from there.

You should read your own words.

Correction: several posters (young and old), have discussed or tried to discuss the original topic. Things had calmed down and people(young and old) were starting to comment on the original topic before this post.

Again, you should read your own words.

And, again, this debate was more or less over until you saw fit to crank it back up. Nope, it is you that has not only started the negativity up again on this thread, but you are guilty of exactly what you claim older posters are guilty of...that of "stupid generalizations" (your words, not mine). How are you guilty of stupid generalizations? By statements like, "Instead you and the older people who support you point the finger back instead of taking your own advice" and "Now you and your cronies can go back to the blame game, and wondering what on earth you did to deserve such a backlash, but please actually consider what some of us have said."

If you read the thread from beginning to end, you will notice, several posters above the age of 30 have posted and have refused to take a side or hurl accusations. Actually, if you look at your posts in this thread, the argument could be made that it is you who won't let the age thing go, because other than your first post(which actually discussed the thread topic, wonder of wonders), you've been harping on one or the other age related slights that took place days ago and have already been worn threadbare.

I have no problem with you hopping on a soapbox, but get the gist of the issue correct before pontificating. It makes for a more effective pontification.

This isn't an age-related thing anymore, it's a "let it go" thing. Older and younger.

I know things snowballed, but there is no excuse for making sweeping and offensive generalizations about my age group. I agree though, the first guy to respond could have been a little nicer, but I didn't see a lot of disrespect there, more like someone making a vlid point. The OP didn't even give any backing to his claim, which did make it a weak thread, hence why the rating is so low, and his disrespectful attitude, while hypocritically demanding respect, only further contributed to the downfall of the thread. His comments were unnecessary towards my age group, and again, very offensive. Something tells me if I had come on here and said "Old people are stupid and feable, and always try to use their age as support for their argument cuz they're senile" I'd be getting lambasted by the older folks the way he has been lambasted by the younger folks. He made himself the target with his ignorant comments, and he continued with it, rather than apologizing for his remarks.

The only comments on the actual subject itself were how horrible a comparison the topic actually is. Nobody has actually tried to delve into the topic because there isn't much to delve into. Zorn has preparation and NFL experience, Spurrier did not. The only similarity between the 2 is they are QB guys. Topic over, and I already responded whith such at the start of the post. Sorry if I'm not going to sit back and let some older guy make prejudiced remarks against my age group throughout this thread. Something tells me had it been about something that personally offended you, you wouldn't be trying to end it and getting back on topic, but rather showing the guy how flawed his words are. JMHO.

For the part about heeding my own words, and my "generalizations" in bold: Umm, I was talking about what the OP, and a couple other older guys, were actually doing in THIS thread. My words were based off their actions, and I in no way was speaking of older people in general. In fact, I said "you, and the older people WHO SUPPORT YOU". I wasn't talking about the entire age group, rather specific people in this thread. Please understand context before making accusations.

It's not that I won't let the age thing go, because if you actually read the posts to which I responded, my posts are in response to the comments, not me picking up the age thing once it died. It was still there, which is why I responded. If you really want to try and play that game, I can say it is you who can't let it go, as you brought it back-up when nobody had responded in here for hours. But we both no neither of those assertions is actually correct, or at least you should know.

And if it is a "let it go" thing, then how about directing that at the original offender, the OP? Instead of harping on those who are offended by his comments, why not take issue with the actual offender? Did I make any generalizations about an entire age group? No. And like I said, if I had made some comment in here that basically boiled down to "this age group is stupid" as the OP did, that affected your group, you wouldn't be trying to end the conversation so quickly.

[JurgyFan]

Something tells me had it been about something that personally offended you, you wouldn't be trying to end it and getting back on topic, but rather showing the guy how flawed his words are. JMHO.

Then something should be telling you that I was personally offended by your generalizations about older posters. You did not specify which older posters you referred to, and I have clarified FanSinceSonnyJ's position on how this whole old vs. new debate originated, so the case could be made that I supported him. And I do see how flawed the wording is in a lot of posts (yours included) on this site, not just this thread.

For the part about heeding my own words, and my "generalizations" in bold: Umm, I was talking about what the OP, and a couple other older guys, were actually doing in THIS thread. My words were based off their actions, and I in no way was speaking of older people in general. In fact, I said "you, and the older people WHO SUPPORT YOU". I wasn't talking about the entire age group, rather specific people in this thread. Please understand context before making accusations.

Again, you did NOT specify which older posters you were referring to(which, if I'm not mistaken, is the very definition of 'generalization'..that which isn't specified, but generalized), so I'm not worried too much about your admonition towards me regarding comprehending the specific context of your generalizations, because you apparently do not understand what it was you said and how you said it to begin with.

It's not that I won't let the age thing go, because if you actually read the posts to which I responded, my posts are in response to the comments, not me picking up the age thing once it died. It was still there, which is why I responded. If you really want to try and play that game, I can say it is you who can't let it go, as you brought it back-up when nobody had responded in here for hours. But we both no neither of those assertions is actually correct, or at least you should know.

Regardless of what post was "still there", one of the 'between the lines" lessons of this thread is to be big enough to let it go. You haven't. Not playing any game, but the fact is the thread was trying to get back to the original topic and you refused to let it and I called you out on it because you're just as guilty of generalizations as the one you accused of generalizing.

And if it is a "let it go" thing, then how about directing that at the original offender, the OP? Instead of harping on those who are offended by his comments, why not take issue with the actual offender? Did I make any generalizations about an entire age group? No. And like I said, if I had made some comment in here that basically boiled down to "this age group is stupid" as the OP did, that affected your group, you wouldn't be trying to end the conversation so quickly.

You have no idea what I would've done in another scenario. You think you do, but you don't. Considering how you advised me to understand context, when, in fact, you had no clue that you were generalizing in the first place, tells me how much I should be concerned about your advice, any advice, for me.

And, FYI, FanSinceSonnyJ and I have discussed this via PM. Thanks for asking.

[CRobi21]

Pathetic.......

[elkabong82]

Then something should be telling you that I was personally offended by your generalizations about older posters. You did not specify which older posters you referred to, and I have clarified FanSinceSonnyJ's position on how this whole old vs. new debate originated, so the case could be made that I supported him. And I do see how flawed the wording is in a lot of posts (yours included) on this site, not just this thread.

Again, you did NOT specify which older posters you were referring to(which, if I'm not mistaken, is the very definition of 'generalization'..that which isn't specified, but generalized), so I'm not worried too much about your admonition towards me regarding comprehending the specific context of your generalizations, because you apparently do not understand what it was you said and how you said it to begin with.

Regardless of what post was "still there", one of the 'between the lines" lessons of this thread is to be big enough to let it go. You haven't. Not playing any game, but the fact is the thread was trying to get back to the original topic and you refused to let it and I called you out on it because you're just as guilty of generalizations as the one you accused of generalizing.

You have no idea what I would've done in another scenario. You think you do, but you don't. Considering how you advised me to understand context, when, in fact, you had no clue that you were generalizing in the first place, tells me how much I should be concerned about your advice, any advice, for me.

And, FYI, FanSinceSonnyJ and I have discussed this via PM. Thanks for asking.

I didn't make any generalizations about older posters. I was talking about the ones in here, and my words were based on their words in here. If you want to assume I made generalizations, though I've clearly shown you I didn't in my previous response, then we are done here. You apparently have no problem with the generalizations the OP actually did make, which is showing bias on your part as you are defending someone who is clearly in the wrong because they represent your age group.

I did point out to you how I was talking about the OP and a couple people in here who supported his remarks, I even capitalized it for you. If you really want to continue to miscontrue what I said intentionally, then that shows my original assertions were correct.

One should be big enough to let it go, but if someone is going to continue to slam my age group, eventhough others are trying to "move on" then I will continue to respond. You don't want the subject to be further discussed, then don't respond.

The fact you continue to assume throughout your post that I was generalizing, when I clearly wasn't and even showed you where you wrong on that tells me I shouldn't take any advice you have to offer. All your whining about something I didn't even do, and showed you I didn't do, and yet you have already given the OP a pass on his gross generalizations, despite him continuing with it throughout this thread. You are very biased here, eventhough you try to stay under the guise of impartiality.

You really want to let it go, then don't respond to me and bump this thread more than an hour after I posted in here. You could have left it alone and let this thread die, but you didn't, and then you tried to act as if your interest was the actual subject matter, when clearly it is not. You really want to move on, then don't respond. However, if you really want to be impartial, then why not admit the OP was making stupid generalizations that were rude and offensive. If he didn't do anything wrong he wouldn't have gotten such a backlash. Instead, the OP then tries to play the victim, and you further it along, despite knowing what he said was wrong. You are already up in arms because you thought I made a generalization about your age group, which [proves what I said in the previous post correct. When it wasn't your age group being attacked, you had no problem. Now that you think your age group was attacked, you respond. So tell me why my assertions were wrong?

[JurgyFan]

And when you don't understand that you generalized, it is useless to point out that which you don't understand. But I'll humor you. I'll let it die if you let it die...think you can do that? We'll see.

[elkabong82]

And when you don't understand that you generalized, it is useless to point out that which you don't understand. But I'll humor you. I'll let it die if you let it die...think you can do that? We'll see.

We absolutely can let it die. I can even be " a big man" and apologize to you if I truley did offend you. Which I do. I know I didn't make any generalizations, I was very specific on who I was talking about, but you obviously thought otherwise. No harm, no foul.

I've already put the OP on ignore anyways, but when someone says offensive and stereotypical things on here as the OP has done, they will be held accountable. I believe I was the bigger man, as I responded myself instead of bothering a mod, or calling for a ban. Usually ignoring someone is the best medicine, but that isn't always easy, as we've both proven in this thread.

I will leave you with some advice, take it or leave it. If someone says something that is truley offensive and prejudiced, they should be held accountable for their words, regardless of who they are or what groups they represent. Attacking those who are offended and are responding because of that, is a nasty thing to do. If this had been almost any other group besides youngsters that was generalized, the OP would have been banned and this thread locked. Do what's right and fault the offender. He shouldn't get a pass just because some youngster might have been a little rude.

[Mooka]

This is basically Gibbs' team with like 90% of the starters returning from last season. So its not quite the same situation.

When Spurrier took over, he built a completely different team.