Spurrier era, round 2 ???

[Soup]

Spurrier was a rare find

He is probably one of the top 5 worst coaches in the history of the NFL.

He would leave at 3 pm, ask assistants (not Coaches) what to do next and he just looked confused during every game. I'm surprised he won that many games to tell you the truth.

Man, I miss Gibbs

[ST is my boy]

You have to admit, there are some similarities:

• Both coaches have no NFL coaching experience.
  
• Both are replacing 'old school' type coaches.
  
• Both started quick in preseason and excited the fanbase.
  
• Both are deferring to others when it comes to player acquisition.
  
• Both are dealing with unreal expectations.
  

How it turns out is anyone's guess.

Unreal expectations? We are expected to come in last place.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Unreal expectations? We are expected to come in last place.

By who? Certainly not the fan base.

[ttr77]

Unreal expectations? We are expected to come in last place.

Not on this board.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

You have to admit, there are some similarities:

• Both coaches have no NFL coaching experience.
  
• Both are replacing 'old school' type coaches.
  
• Both started quick in preseason and excited the fanbase.
  
• Both are deferring to others when it comes to player acquisition.
  
• Both are dealing with unreal expectations.
  

How it turns out is anyone's guess.

:notworthy Thanks for having my back. My point exactly.

I am amazed how quickly those who serve up anything less than a 'rosy' picture of our team are slammed around here. Very sad.

[ttr77]

:notworthy Thanks for having my back. My point exactly.

I am amazed how quickly those who serve up anything less than a 'rosy' picture of our team are slammed around here. Very sad.

You, my friend, are a naysayer.

Or so I've been called.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Its funny you are in here attacking everyone that was younger than you during the Spurrior era.

NO, I think pretty much everyone disagrees with you that this reminds them of the spurrior era....got it?:doh:

I responded to one guy who slammed me, as I don't think much of those who are so quick to slam posts that are the slightest bit negative, particularly young kids who aren't old enough to even remember our glory years. I suggest you butt out as this has nothing to do with you. Thank you.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

You, my friend, are a naysayer.

Or so I've been called.

LOL. I hear you...

[CM916]

Man, how many years in a row have we heard some variation of this quote on the eve of the regular season?

One of these years it has to come true, right? RIGHT?!?

This time, it's looking like 1981 again as I said.

[No_Pressure]

A lot of really good coaches have had teams go out and play completely lifeless and flat in the regular season let alone the pre-season. How a team plays in the pre-season isn't a direct reflection of the coach, if that was true we wouldn't see teams that have well established even super bowl winning coaches going out there and getting beat up.

Sure having a 47-3 and 24-3 beating for two weeks makes any fan feel bad regardless of if it's the pre-season or regular season. As fans we want to see our team do well and beat up on all comers whether the game means something or not. The thing that everybody needs to keep in mind is that the pre-season doesn't mean anything for the team. It means something to individuals trying to make the team but it doesn't really mean anything for the players as a group, and it REALLY doesn't reflect the abilities of a coach.

Everybody knows how Joe Gibbs started out, Bobby Beathard had to beg and plea Jack Kent Cooke every week for the entire first year not to fire him. We all know the result as well- by 1993 when Joe retired there was no question that he was one of the best coaches to ever play the game. I'm sure his case is not unique, sometimes it takes people a while to hit their stride, and sometimes like with Norv, you give them the time and they simply never hit their stride. In either case, it is impossible to make snap judgements on coaches. Zorn currently has an equal chance of being another Norv as he does being another Gibbs. After this first season, regardless of the results, I would be willing to bet he still has an equal chance of being like either coach.

Judging Zorn and judging this team will take time, making assumptions or being worried after a grand total of two bad games, whether the instinct turns out to be right or wrong, is a bad idea.

Redskins fans need to calm down, have patience with our rookie coach, and hope for the best because thats all we can really do. Turning on the guy or the team after 2 bad games would be an overreaction in the regular season much less the pre-season.

[ttr77]

This time, it's looking like 1981 again as I said.

I gotta ask...how?

In the early 80's this team made some of the best drafts in league history, leading to a young offensive line that dominated the league for a decade or so and was an absolute anchor for the franchise.

The current line is not even close to being young. And this team hasn't really had a great draft in years. Other than there being a new coach, I don't see any similarities.

[skins4eva]

You have to admit, there are some similarities:

• Both coaches have no NFL coaching experience.
  
• Both are replacing 'old school' type coaches.
  
• Both started quick in preseason and excited the fanbase.
  
• Both are deferring to others when it comes to player acquisition.
  
• Both are dealing with unreal expectations.
  

How it turns out is anyone's guess.

This is crazy talk. We may have a tough season, but it will be for completely different reasons than when Spurrier was the coach. First of all, Zorn has NFL experience--he has been the QB coach in Seattle, and he's done a damn fine job with Matt Hasselback. Zorn knows what it takes to prepare a team to play in this league--he has been watching Holmgrem do it for years, so in that regard they are not at all similar.

What I think we're all coming to grips with is that our expectations were unrealistic. Our draft, which initially looked promising, is starting to look very uncertain. Kelly can't even get on the field in a preseason game and at this point could do nothing to help this team anytime soon. Meanwhile, Thomas is a long, long long way away from being ready to play from what I've seen so far. It looks like Fred "Sleepy" Davis will be the only one ready to play on Thursday. So much for new wide receiver weapons. If ANY of our wideouts goes down this year, watch out.

I thought we'd be contending this year, but I'm coming to the realization that we may be, at best, an 8-8 team. And if we lose early and lose big, it'll be real interesting to see whether this coach can keep this group together. Gibbs had done it for years through sheer force of personality.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I gotta ask...how?

In the early 80's this team made some of the best drafts in league history, leading to a young offensive line that dominated the league for a decade or so and was an absolute anchor for the franchise.

The current line is not even close to being young. And this team hasn't really had a great draft in years. Other than there being a new coach, I don't see any similarities.

Once again, your reasonable logic is beyond dispute. My guess is most of the folks that make similarities of this team versus the 1981 team weren't even born in 1981.

[skins4eva]

Once again, your reasonable logic is beyond dispute. My guess is most of the folks that make similarities of this team versus the 1981 team weren't even born in 1981.

You're old, we get it

[Ghent]

No' date=' Zorn really looks like a coach that can change this team into a winner. He reminds of Marty in that he doesn't toy around with the team. I think they'll go 8-8 with his system and really contend next year. That Jansen and Heyer thing really shows me he's not a coach that jokes around. He seems like a player's coach but he's really the opposite. Putting players under the bus and calling out veterans is not a player's coach its marty schottenheimer II.

The skins will start horribly this year but Zorn is not afraid of putting in young guys in place of Vets. They come back in the second half of the year.[/quote']

I have mixed feeling about Zorn publicly calling players out.

I like that there's some accountability on this team but if the season goes south is this going to trickle down to the players and are they going to start calling eachother out?

Gibbs never called a single player out... we win/lose as a team and when things went south it turned into "us against the world." I think this helped bring the team together when their backs were against the wall.

[Chump Bailey]

I'll admit, I'm worried about the team also, but am not ready to make that leap just yet.

I do worry somewhat about Zorn's style - 'player's coach' / possibly not authoritative enough etc... (speculating of course) the sloppy play we've witnessed thus far only reinforces that a bit for me, but then again, we went through much the same ordeal with Gibbs.

So yes: I am worried, but I am also not wringing my hands yet either.

Thursday's game win or lose will go a long ways toward altering my current cursory perception about Zorn and his Redskins. I just want the effort to be seen on the field and if I feel the team gave all it could then I'll be satisfied for the time being.

Ultimately though we have little choice but to be patient with this team and JC. I do think if the defense struggles Blache will be a definite goner at the end of the season - and I can easily envision that scenario unfortunately.

BTW - how did E. James look to you last night Sonny?

I was encouraged...

[ttr77]

This is crazy talk. We may have a tough season, but it will be for completely different reasons than when Spurrier was the coach. First of all, Zorn has NFL experience--he has been the QB coach in Seattle, and he's done a damn fine job with Matt Hasselback. Zorn knows what it takes to prepare a team to play in this league--he has been watching Holmgrem do it for years, so in that regard they are not at all similar.

I was simply pointing out that there ARE similarities. And it can be argued that as of the date they signed on as head coach, Spurrier had a better resume than Zorn.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

A lot of really good coaches have had teams go out and play completely lifeless and flat in the regular season let alone the pre-season. How a team plays in the pre-season isn't a direct reflection of the coach, if that was true we wouldn't see teams that have well established even super bowl winning coaches going out there and getting beat up.

Sure having a 47-3 and 24-3 beating for two weeks makes any fan feel bad regardless of if it's the pre-season or regular season. As fans we want to see our team do well and beat up on all comers whether the game means something or not. The thing that everybody needs to keep in mind is that the pre-season doesn't mean anything for the team. It means something to individuals trying to make the team but it doesn't really mean anything for the players as a group, and it REALLY doesn't reflect the abilities of a coach.

Everybody knows how Joe Gibbs started out, Bobby Beathard had to beg and plea Jack Kent Cooke every week for the entire first year not to fire him. We all know the result as well- by 1993 when Joe retired there was no question that he was one of the best coaches to ever play the game. I'm sure his case is not unique, sometimes it takes people a while to hit their stride, and sometimes like with Norv, you give them the time and they simply never hit their stride. In either case, it is impossible to make snap judgements on coaches. Zorn currently has an equal chance of being another Norv as he does being another Gibbs. After this first season, regardless of the results, I would be willing to bet he still has an equal chance of being like either coach.

Judging Zorn and judging this team will take time, making assumptions or being worried after a grand total of two bad games, whether the instinct turns out to be right or wrong, is a bad idea.

Redskins fans need to calm down, have patience with our rookie coach, and hope for the best because thats all we can really do. Turning on the guy or the team after 2 bad games would be an overreaction in the regular season much less the pre-season.

My point here is that we don't exactly have momentum or much of anything positive going our way going into the season opener with last year's Super Bowl Champ. Our "dress rehearsal" preseason games were ugly. Spurrier came in here and we all had high expectations after a successful era at UF. He teased us with some great preseason wins, and then turned out to be a bust. Zorn comes in here with nothing more than NFL QB Coach experience and has teased us with a few early preseason wins...and now it looks as if his carriage has quickly turned into a pumpkin. You're correct it's only preseason. Let's just hope that what we have endured the past couple of weeks is not a sneak preview of the upcoming season.

[skins4eva]

I was simply pointing out that there ARE similarities. And it can be argued that as of the date they signed on as head coach, Spurrier had a better resume than Zorn.

That's only if you assume that your resume from college translates to the NFL. Not an assumption I've ever made. As Spurrier and Saban have proven, college and the NFL are two completely different games.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

That's only if you assume that your resume from college translates to the NFL. Not an assumption I've ever made. As Spurrier and Saban have proven, college and the NFL are two completely different games.

Jimmy Johnson may argue your position on this one. Besides, Spurrier ran a very successful NFL type offense at Florida. On paper the decision looked good and was applauded by the self proclaimed football pundits of the day.

[skins4eva]

Jimmy Johnson may argue your position on this one. Grant it, he is the exception and not the rule.

There are always exceptions--he's the glaring one, but like you said, the exception and not the rule.

[ttr77]

That's only if you assume that your resume from college translates to the NFL. Not an assumption I've ever made. As Spurrier and Saban have proven, college and the NFL are two completely different games.

With the benefit of hindsight, yes that is true. But if I recall correctly, many NFL teams had interest in Spurrier at the time. The same cannot be said about Zorn.

[skins4eva]

With the benefit of hindsight, yes that is true. But if I recall correctly, many NFL teams had interest in Spurrier at the time. The same cannot be said about Zorn.

How do you know? It's possible that teams were interested in Zorn. I doubt that may teams were interested in Andy Reid when he was a QB coach. I know almost no one was interested in Joe Gibbs. Interest in a coach or lack thereof to me is pretty meaningless. Zorn should certainly be afforded the right to prove himself. My major concern is that if we start of slowly, which is almost a certainty given our schedule, people will immediately jump on Zorn and call for his head. He needs at least a full season before we can evaluate him properly.

[kubstix]

Sorry fansincesonny......i would love to post in here but I don't think I meet the minimum height requirements or age requirements. You talk about maturity.....your a joke with some of your comments on this post.

[ttr77]

How do you know? It's possible that teams were interested in Zorn. I doubt that may teams were interested in Andy Reid when he was a QB coach. I know almost no one was interested in Joe Gibbs. Interest in a coach or lack thereof to me is pretty meaningless. Zorn should certainly be afforded the right to prove himself. My major concern is that if we start of slowly, which is almost a certainty given our schedule, people will immediately jump on Zorn and call for his head. He needs at least a full season before we can evaluate him properly.

I never said that Zorn shouldn't be given a chance. I am totally behind him. But he was not exactly in high demand. Zorn was hired as an OC. If someone wanted him as HC, they certainly could have gotten him. Spurrier signed on because Dan gave him a ridiculous amount of money.

Again, I am not saying that Spurrier is better than Zorn. I simply said that Spurrier probably had a better resume as a head coach than Zorn did. If you disagree, than you are in the minority.