What veteran Redskins do you think fails to make the squad?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Am I a coach? I know I said the coaches gave him praises not me. Please read what I write. .

You wrote "The coaches actually have high praise for Rian Wallace. He has good sideline speed. He isn't a bad prospect."

Which certainly sounds like you saying he has good sideline speed and isn't a bad prospect. Either that, or you worded that horribly.

Either way, you decided to post that the coaches "have high praise" for Wallace, and then defended the validity of posting that (saying Zorn's saying that is more valid than Gibbs) and saying he "has good sideline speed" and "isn't a bad prospect", but you're getting snippy with me for saying you "praised" Wallace. Maybe you took the word "praise" too seriously, but you're seemingly being upset over this is, at best, silly.

I dont want to release Fincher or Wallace for the matter (before his injury)..

And yet the post I first responded to was you implying that were absolutely desperate to pick up another LB, which would have almost surely meant releasing BOTH Fincher and Wallace (plus Sinclair). If you don't think you're being contradictory with those statements, I guess I can't help you see it.

Burl Toler is an example of a player who has basically no shot to make this team that we could release to bring in another LB.

Which is what I said many posts ago. My point (and reason for responding to you in the first place) was really about how wrong it would be to cut Frost or Devine at this point in camp for the sake of another unnamed LB. Now you're basically agreeing with me, but still arguing.

Obviously, we're going in circles at this point. Suffice to say, I don't see a LB out there who would likely help, I don't see it as a huge need and I don't want to release someone at this point who is one injury from making the final roster.

[tml6157]

You wrote "The coaches actually have high praise for Rian Wallace. He has good sideline speed. He isn't a bad prospect."

Which certainly sounds like you saying he has good sideline speed and isn't a bad prospect. Either that, or you worded that horribly.

Either way, you decided to post that the coaches "have high praise" for Wallace, and then defended the validity of posting that (saying Zorn's saying that is more valid than Gibbs) and saying he "has good sideline speed" and "isn't a bad prospect", but you're getting snippy with me for saying you "praised" Wallace. Maybe you took the word "praise" too seriously, but you're seemingly being upset over this is, at best, silly.

And yet the post I first responded to was you implying that were absolutely desperate to pick up another LB, which would have almost surely meant releasing BOTH Fincher and Wallace (plus Sinclair). If you don't think you're being contradictory with those statements, I guess I can't help you see it.

Which is what I said many posts ago. My point (and reason for responding to you in the first place) was really about how wrong it would be to cut Frost or Devine at this point in camp for the sake of another unnamed LB. Now you're basically agreeing with me, but still arguing.

Obviously, we're going in circles at this point. Suffice to say, I don't see a LB out there who would likely help, I don't see it as a huge need and I don't want to release someone at this point who is one injury from making the final roster.

Why when I say the Wallace isnt a BAD prospect, does that translate to he is our best prospect according to me? I believe what this coaching staff says over what Gibbs said publicly. Zorn has publicly called out players and lets them know what they need to do to get better. Why would Zorn sugarcoat what he thinks about Rian Wallace now? Once again by saying Wallace has good sideline speed, how am I praising him personally? It seems like you are just looking for an argument and taking whatever I say to the most extreme.

Why does Wallace and Fincher have to be cut to bring in another LB? Do I think bringing in another LB would be good for us? Yes. Do I think we are desperate for another LB? No. Once again you are taking everything I say to the extreme. I never said we were desperate for another LB. I would not want to cut Fincher because he has looked really good from the short time he has been here which speaks a lot of him. Why do they BOTH have to be released or even any of them at all?

Do you think if we cut Derek Devine people would be beating down his door to sign him? No chance in hell. He has looked terrible. The only time he gets to show what he has he telegraphs a pass and is picked. If something would happen to any of our QBs with getting hurt. Devine will be there no worries.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Why when I say the Wallace isnt a BAD prospect, does that translate to he is our best prospect according to me? I believe what this coaching staff says over what Gibbs said publicly. Zorn has publicly called out players and lets them know what they need to do to get better. Why would Zorn sugarcoat what he thinks about Rian Wallace now? Once again by saying Wallace has good sideline speed, how am I praising him personally? It seems like you are just looking for an argument and taking whatever I say to the most extreme.

Why does Wallace and Fincher have to be cut to bring in another LB? Do I think bringing in another LB would be good for us? Yes. Do I think we are desperate for another LB? No. Once again you are taking everything I say to the extreme. I never said we were desperate for another LB. I would not want to cut Fincher because he has looked really good from the short time he has been here which speaks a lot of him. Why do they BOTH have to be released or even any of them at all?

Do you think if we cut Derek Devine people would be beating down his door to sign him? No chance in hell. He has looked terrible. The only time he gets to show what he has he telegraphs a pass and is picked. If something would happen to any of our QBs with getting hurt. Devine will be there no worries.

And where did I say you called Wallace "our best prospect"? Go ahead and find it, I'll be waiting. Don't put words into my mouth so you can imply that's what I'm doing to you. That's hypocritical to an almost ridiculous degree.

"Once again by saying Wallace has good sideline speed, how am I praising him personally?"

Is that a serious question? Really?

As you said, we will likely keep 6 LBs. Washington, Fletcher, Rocky and Blades seem like locks to me, and Campbell seems pretty close. So to keep your mythical roster pick-up, yes, it seems neither Fincher nor Wallace makes the final cut.

And your "wishing" we would dump Frost (as I said, an injury from being on the fianl roster) to pick up some LB off the scrap heap certainly implies a level of desperation in regards to our LB depth.

This has gotten beyond silly.

[tml6157]

And where did I say you called Wallace "our best prospect"? Go ahead and find it, I'll be waiting. Don't put words into my mouth so you can imply that's what I'm doing to you. That's hypocritical to an almost ridiculous degree.

"Once again by saying Wallace has good sideline speed, how am I praising him personally?"

Is that a serious question? Really?

As you said, we will likely keep 6 LBs. Washington, Fletcher, Rocky and Blades seem like locks to me, and Campbell seems pretty close. So to keep your mythical roster pick-up, yes, it seems neither Fincher nor Wallace makes the final cut.

And your "wishing" we would dump Frost (as I said, an injury from being on the fianl roster) to pick up some LB off the scrap heap certainly implies a level of desperation in regards to our LB depth.

This has gotten beyond silly.

If its gotten beyond silly to you then stop ****ing replying its that easy. You understand NOTHING that im saying. You take everything to the most extreme limit to TRY to make an argument and you dont do a good job. You talk like I said Rian Wallace is our best LB. If Zorn and company said they like what they see in Wallce then Im going to believe them. I already explained why they have more credibility then Gibbs.

The praising thing is making you look rediculous. Let me show you. If I was praising Wallace this is what I would say. "Man Wallace is going to be something very special. He tackles like a machine he is all over the field he is wonderful in coverage and a surefire leader." Not "he has good speed". Once again you take EVERYTHING to the extreme.

When did i EVER say that the LB we bring in would be our automatic #6 LB. Come on IM WAITING? See it doesnt pay to be a smart ass does it? So if Fincher would beat out the other person we bring in the so be it.

Frost will not make this team, neither will Devine. You neglect to address points that I make. By cutting Devine right now who is going to sign him? No one will! In his ONLY chance to show what he could do he looked awful. Every other time he was in he handed the ball of 97% of the time. Thats pretty evident that he wont be making this team. What do you have to say about that argument. You say he is one injury away from making the team? Well why wouldnt he be there if we ever needed to resign him?

[Rufus T Firefly]

If its gotten beyond silly to you then stop ****ing replying its that easy. You understand NOTHING that im saying. You take everything to the most extreme limit to TRY to make an argument and you dont do a good job. You talk like I said Rian Wallace is our best LB. If Zorn and company said they like what they see in Wallce then Im going to believe them. I already explained why they have more credibility then Gibbs.

The praising thing is making you look rediculous. Let me show you. If I was praising Wallace this is what I would say. "Man Wallace is going to be something very special. He tackles like a machine he is all over the field he is wonderful in coverage and a surefire leader." Not "he has good speed". Once again you take EVERYTHING to the extreme.

When did i EVER say that the LB we bring in would be our automatic #6 LB. Come on IM WAITING? See it doesnt pay to be a smart ass does it? So if Fincher would beat out the other person we bring in the so be it.

Frost will not make this team, neither will Devine. You neglect to address points that I make. By cutting Devine right now who is going to sign him? No one will! In his ONLY chance to show what he could do he looked awful. Every other time he was in he handed the ball of 97% of the time. Thats pretty evident that he wont be making this team. What do you have to say about that argument. You say he is one injury away from making the team? Well why wouldnt he be there if we ever needed to resign him?

Don't worry. This will be my last reply becuase this has gone well beyond being poiintless and a complete waste of my time.

I already explained what I meant by saying you "praised" Wallace and for you to not take that too seriously, but you continue to put words into my mouth so you can pretend I am putting words into YOUR mouth. That's hypocritical and ridiculous. I certainly won't waste more time responding to someone being that pathetic.

One MORE TIME- Your original post was how you "wished" for us to pick up another LB, cutting guys just off the final cut to do so. But then you act like the guys we have are fine? What was the point of your post in the first place? You want to pick someone up two weeks beofre final cuts who won't make the final team? Why? If just for injury protection, why not clarify that a dozen posts ago? Do you have a point? What the hell was it? What the hell have you been arguing about all this time? And, one last time, can you name a single guy we could pick up who would be worth the time? Is this your point- that you are "wishing" we would pick up someone we don't need anyway? You have made no sense and if you had a point worth discussing you could have made it long ago rather than arguing in circles.

My point in the first place was that it made more sense to cut a guy like Toler, which you disagreed with (to an extent) and later adopted as your own idea. I explained why cutting Frost now was a bad idea (which you have repeatedly ignored). As for Devine, he hasn't impressed me either, but I'd rather have a guy around who has trained in the offense and who Zorn obviously likes, in case of injury. If Zorn like him, another team could like him enough to stick him at #3.

But go ahead, make nonsensical "points" and make false and hypocritical accusations and hurl insults. It seems that's all you're interested in anyway.

[praise_gibbs]

So, what are your views on Rian Wallace?

I think he has the potential to be a solid contributor for our Skins. I just don't know if it is this season when we see him as our rising star. A season or two under Blache's leadership could be all he needs.

[Rufus T Firefly]

So, what are your views on Rian Wallace?

I think he has the potential to be a solid contributor for our Skins. I just don't know if it is this season when we see him as our rising star. A season or two under Blache's leadership could be all he needs.

LOL.

As I said, I really haven't noticed him much.

I may feel the need to point out that the coaches praised him, that he has good speed, that he isn't a bad prospect or that I don't want him cut, but don't infer from that that I think he's any good.:laugh:

[Walking Deadman]

Rian Wallace has been injured most of the season.

He broke his hand in camp (scrimmage like Montgomery?) and now he has a shoulder injury:

"LB Rian Wallace could miss three weeks with a dislocated shoulder"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/sunday_afternoon_h-back.html?nav=rss_blog

I got a feeling he gets released as a injury settlement and the Skins look for another LB.

[tml6157]

Don't worry. This will be my last reply becuase this has gone well beyond being poiintless and a complete waste of my time.

I already explained what I meant by saying you "praised" Wallace and for you to not take that too seriously, but you continue to put words into my mouth so you can pretend I am putting words into YOUR mouth. That's hypocritical and ridiculous. I certainly won't waste more time responding to someone being that pathetic.

One MORE TIME- Your original post was how you "wished" for us to pick up another LB, cutting guys just off the final cut to do so. But then you act like the guys we have are fine? What was the point of your post in the first place? You want to pick someone up two weeks beofre final cuts who won't make the final team? Why? If just for injury protection, why not clarify that a dozen posts ago? Do you have a point? What the hell was it? What the hell have you been arguing about all this time? And, one last time, can you name a single guy we could pick up who would be worth the time? Is this your point- that you are "wishing" we would pick up someone we don't need anyway? You have made no sense and if you had a point worth discussing you could have made it long ago rather than arguing in circles.

My point in the first place was that it made more sense to cut a guy like Toler, which you disagreed with (to an extent) and later adopted as your own idea. I explained why cutting Frost now was a bad idea (which you have repeatedly ignored). As for Devine, he hasn't impressed me either, but I'd rather have a guy around who has trained in the offense and who Zorn obviously likes, in case of injury. If Zorn like him, another team could like him enough to stick him at #3.

But go ahead, make nonsensical "points" and make false and hypocritical accusations and hurl insults. It seems that's all you're interested in anyway.

I love how you say things that I said and when I ask you to point out where I said them you ignore it. You have yet to respond with anything I asked you so its pointless to try to get any good reasoning out of you. Look what Fincher and Hamilton have done here in the limited time they have been here. Both have been very impressive with the least amount of experience in this defensive scheme. So if you think that somone couldnt be picked up now and be a contributing factor, then you obviously dont follow our team close enough. Or you a closet Cowboys fan. For your sake I hope its not the latter. :laugh:

[Nicealot]

Chris Wilson. While he was somewhat dynamic with 4 sacks last year, he has been injured...QUOTE]

Chris Wilson = Chris Clemons - Same size / type of player. Look how well he is doing now and Phila just signed him to a big contract.

[tml6157]

Chris Wilson. While he was somewhat dynamic with 4 sacks last year, he has been injured...QUOTE]

Chris Wilson = Chris Clemons - Same size / type of player. Look how well he is doing now and Phila just signed him to a big contract.

Yes philly can have him. He isn't anything special. I promise you he will put up horrible numbers in philly. They finally stop being so cheap and spend money on Chris Clemons :doh:

[dizzinator53]

wow really? he is essentially a lock

What has he done to make him a lock? The only reason I see him staying is if he plays DT exclusively.. but he has sucked there too. No pressure it seems.

[jrockster21]

Fox' date=' Wade, Frost, and Sellers? What's his role in the WCO? FB?[/quote']

Chuck, you are out of your mind.

A) Zorn has said the running game will stay pretty much the same, meaning lots of lead blocking for big #45.

Ever heard of Mack Strong? The FB is prominent in the Holmgren WCO, which is what Zorn's system is based off of.

C) Sellers has been featured a few times as the single-back this preseason, which to me points out that he will get used a lot.

D) He is a special teams standout, which is enough for him to make the team regardless.

[shakinaiken]

Derrick Frost and Todd Wade are the most obvious candidates. It's a shame Wade can't stay healthy...

I hate to say it but I think Chris Wilson gets cut this time around in favor of Rob Jackson and Erasmus James. I like Wilson, but there really isn't much need for a 3rd down specialist that is too small to play the run now that you have Jason Taylor.

I also have a gut feeling that Leigh Torrence and Vernon Fox get caught in a numbers game on the final cut as I can't see the team keeping 9 DBs on the active roster or trying to stash any of the rookies on the PS.

Mix and McMullen are probably gone as well in favor of keeping Mason as the 4th RB instead of 6 WRs.

cant see how Rob Jackson would make it over Wilson, sorry. While Rob has indeed looked good, Wilson played in every game last year, and recorded 4 sacks. And i swear everytime i watch Wilson play, he has a couple of plays where the quarterback just gets rid of the ball... Put Jackson on the ps and let him develop

[squatch66]

Westbrook, Mix, Fox are gone.

i could be wrong but i think that if they were going to cut mix they would have done so right after he got hurt.

[tml6157]

What has he done to make him a lock? The only reason I see him staying is if he plays DT exclusively.. but he has sucked there too. No pressure it seems.

Evans is like a mini daniels. he is stout against the run and has jacked up this year with his workout routine. he can move inside on obvious passing situations.

[tml6157]

i could be wrong but i think that if they were going to cut mix they would have done so right after he got hurt.

possibly but they might want to see what he can do. you cant gauge that off of one preseason game.

[Siven]

It's a shame he couldn't slide back and play some OLB. That's where the depth need is.

Taylor can presumably slide back and be decent as an OLB

[terpfan]

You guys are crazy if you think Rock Cartwright is getting cut.

[Mercuryrising]

Boschetti

Nemo

Fox

Frost

Mix

Toler

Wade

Westbrook

Wilson

...are all goners. If I had to choose between McMullen and Mason, I would say we keep six WRs and put Mason on the PS (and probably lose him). Our WRs ability to stay healthy is questionable, so I think we keep a sixth. I think Devin Clark, Andrew Crummey, Jason Goode, and Matteral Richardson all go on the PS, and hopefully we won't lose any of them.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The one thing I disagree with is keeping a 6th WR over Mason. During the season we would be able to pick up a WR as good as whoever would be #6 out of this gaggle (Mix or Mcmullen), you would not be able to pick up a RB as good as Mason. Keep Mason and if a WR goes down do like we did last season and bring in a Vet (;ike we did with Mccardell), or bring in one of the scrubs we cut. I doubt Mcmullen or Mix will be on anyones 53 man roster if we cut them.

[Mercuryrising]

While I hear what you are saying (LB does seem to be our thinnest position), if this is a serious suggestion, I have two questions for you:

1. What LB do you think we could 'pick up' that really makes a difference right now?

2. Since Devine and Frost are each one injury away from making the roster, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to cut someone from a deeper position?

Very well thought out! I don't think you cut Frost or Devine until final roster cutdown for exactly the reason you mention.

[Hubbs]

Since practically all of the expected names have been thrown out there, I'm gonna go out on a limb and pick a longshot.

Todd Collins.

No, not because of Colt Brennan earning the #2 spot - I would expect him to remain the #3. Rather, I think there's a small, but definitely not nonexistent, chance that Zorn selects Derek Devine as his own Todd Collins - a relatively anonymous backup that's spent more time studying his system than anyone else. Granted, it's only been a year for Devine, nothing remotely comparable to Collins' near-decade with Al Saunders in KC. But if, as some have speculated, Collins is only effective in the Saunders system (not because of physical talent, but simply because he knows it so well that he can always put the ball where the defense doesn't want it), I can at least imagine Zorn feeling more comfortable with Devine, however unproven, as his #2 over a guy who's nearly 40 and just doesn't seem to get the new offense.

It's a total long shot, and I'm definitely not saying that I expect it to happen - but if it does, I expect a ticker-tape parade for my precognitive abilities.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Wade, Frost, Fox, and Tom Cruise

[tml6157]

Wade, Frost, Fox, and Tom Cruise

we need to never let tom cruise around our team ever again!

[skinsfan44]

Sure.

The WCO employs multiple sets and formations, as I'm sure you know, and Zorn has already shown a propensity to lead block with big #45 inside the 20s.

IMO, Big Mike is safe.

I sure the hell hope so since I just bought a Sellers jersey from NFLShop. :laugh:

I think Fox, Westbrook and Frost are gone.