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What's the bare minimum number of wins in 2008 for Snyder to bring back Zorn?

Byner21

By Byner21
in The Stadium

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Byner21

Byner21

Posted
Posted

I went to training camp on Friday, and noticed a lot of 'skins paraphernalia with the "Believe in Now" motto. I don't know if these shirts etc were around prior to this offseason, but regardless, they looked pretty widespread and to me, signaled a demand for instant success from the Zorn regime.

I'm probably overreading, but it does raise the question: what's the worst record that Zorn could have this year, and still keep his job?

[EDIT: I've been informed that "Believe in Now" is a league-wide slogan. That changes things a little bit. Let's keep this poll going anyway.]

I certainly hope the team is able to hit the ground running, much like the Cowboys (ugh) did last year, in year 1 after Parcells's departure. I did not think they would play at the level they did last year, given that they had a new head coach in Wade Phillips and a brand new OC / play caller in Jason Garrett. I was pretty shocked at their offensive firepower, specifically, in year 1 of the Garrett system.

So you never know what can happen. I think it's asking a lot, however, to expect similar success from the 'skins in year 1 of the West Coast offense with Zorn (and year 1 of NFL playcalling for Zorn, period). What if the transition is not an instant success? How bad is too bad?

Clearly there are many moving parts, and everyone would be more forgiving in certain scenarios (for example, if the team had a disproportionate amount of significant injuries). Similarly, if there was obvious growth in key areas (such as Campbell's development), but somehow this did not translate to wins, that would affect Snyder's and the public's perception of things.

I think it's safe to say that 9 wins or more would be very safe territory for Zorn. But how many losses are just too many?

I have a hard time believing that Zorn would survive an 0-16 season, under any circumstances.

What about 1-15? Sorry, here's another Dallas example. Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in year 1, and then went on to win two Super Bowls a few short years later. But in year 1 the Cowboys were obviously in rebuilding mode. The 'skins are not. They have a bunch of older veterans, and continuity in the the coaching staff and the roster from last year. I don't think Zorn survives a 1-15 year.

I believe the team has to win 4 games at a minimum, and there must be other forgiving factors involved, for Zorn to stick around beyond 2008.

So, what do you think? Keep in mind, this is not about how many losses are acceptable to you. This poll asks how many losses are acceptable to Snyder.

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Stophovr6

Stophovr6

Posted
Posted
9 wins is minimum. Anything less, there will be a cloud over him.

Honestly, That sucks and is bull. He's a first time head coach. Sure he has all the right peices in place. But he is installing a new offense.

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. It just annoys me that he HAS to have a winning season his first year. It would be great if he did. I'll be happy with him if he gets 6 wins personally. Anything more and I will be very impressed. Anything less and I will still understand and give him the benefit of the doubt.

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LoudMouth12thMan

LoudMouth12thMan

Posted
Posted

If we have a losing season it will not be b/c of Zorn. This guy is sharp as a tack, and he won't have a problem calling plays and using his weapons in the right way. Sure, he could blow a decision or two on the field, but that shouldn't equate to a plethora of losses.

This team could lose a lot of games if it has too many injuries. We have depth at most spots, and we proved last year that we can still get to the playoffs with backups. So, I look at it this way, Gibbs never got this team ready to excel in the red zone. Zorn keeps stressing that as one of the most important things for this offense, red zone efficiency. Gibbs is my hero, but as much as I love him, his greatest weakness seems to be Zorn's strength [it's all words at this point though, so we'll see]. Zorn said that he wants to be more aggressive on short yardage, no conservative approach to his offense, and he wants this team to concentrate on "completing drives." Easier said than done, but they went out and got 3 red zone weapons to add to the mix via the draft. Even if M. Kelly and Sleepy don't get many reps as starters, I see them being put in when we reach the red zone and I think that they'll flourish.

Little injury concerns, this team has a winning record and frankly I can't see why we wouldn't be in the NFC East title hunt.

Multiple injuries to key guys, and this team will likely be 8-8 at best.

:2cents:

Edit: Didn't really answer your question, but I think under any circumstance, Zorn will be given two years total before he's given the hook. That's my gut feeling. This franchise has to give him time to develop the players. I'd say 5 wins or less will spell trouble for him immediately just b/c of the outcry that will come from the fans. Thus opening the door for a guy like Cowher to come here...which I think would be a complete mistake even if Zorn's first year stinks.

HTTR

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Dr. Terrapin

Dr. Terrapin

Posted
Posted

I'm thinking we'll win a few games this year, but does anyone SERIOUSLY think Coach Z gets fired unless we win 9 games?!

In my not-very-humble opinion, the 3 people who who have voted "9" either a) didn't read the question correctly, B) are convinced there's a conspiracy to change coaches (the Cowher fanatics?!), or c) have no idea how hard 9-7 is in the NFL.

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Byner21

Byner21

Posted
  • Author
Posted
the "believe in Now" Is an NFL sanctioned campaign. Everyteam has merchandise with that slogan.

That being said i think at least 6 wins to avoid the hot seat, any less than 5... well job will be on the line... i believe

Oh...oops. :)

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TK

TK

Posted
Posted

"Believe In Now" is a League wide slogan for this year's training camp. ;)

As far as W/L record goes, if we make the Playoffs, even sneaking in as a Wildcard, Zorn's golden. Even if the team bombs, I think Zorn will still be back next year. The commitment to Zorn is more then a commitment to just a coach. It's a commitment to JC & helping him reach his full full potential as a franchise QB.

Now, if the team bombs, the following year, then I'd say Zorn & JC are both outta here & we start over.

Again.

Which is exactly where we don't want to be. We've been stuck in this predicament since Joey T went down.

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D'KanSkinFan

D'KanSkinFan

Posted
Posted
I went to training camp on Friday, and noticed a lot of 'skins paraphernalia with the "Believe in Now" motto. I don't know if these shirts etc were around prior to this offseason, but regardless, they looked pretty widespread and to me, signaled a demand for instant success from the Zorn regime.

I'm probably overreading, but it does raise the question: what's the worst record that Zorn could have this year, and still keep his job?

I certainly hope the team is able to hit the ground running, much like the Cowboys (ugh) did last year, in year 1 after Parcells's departure. I did not think they would play at the level they did last year, given that they had a new head coach in Wade Phillips and a brand new OC / play caller in Jason Garrett. I was pretty shocked at their offensive firepower, specifically, in year 1 of the Garrett system.

So you never know what can happen. I think it's asking a lot, however, to expect similar success from the 'skins in year 1 of the West Coast offense with Zorn (and year 1 of NFL playcalling for Zorn, period). What if the transition is not an instant success? How bad is too bad?

Clearly there are many moving parts, and everyone would be more forgiving in certain scenarios (for example, if the team had a disproportionate amount of significant injuries). Similarly, if there was obvious growth in key areas (such as Campbell's development), but somehow this did not translate to wins, that would affect Snyder's and the public's perception of things.

I think it's safe to say that 9 wins or more would be very safe territory for Zorn. But how many losses are just too many?

I have a hard time believing that Zorn would survive an 0-16 season, under any circumstances.

What about 1-15? Sorry, here's another Dallas example. Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 in year 1, and then went on to win two Super Bowls a few short years later. But in year 1 the Cowboys were obviously in rebuilding mode. The 'skins are not. They have a bunch of older veterans, and continuity in the the coaching staff and the roster from last year. I don't think Zorn survives a 1-15 year.

I believe the team has to win 4 games at a minimum, and there must be other forgiving factors involved, for Zorn to stick around beyond 2008.

So, what do you think? Keep in mind, this is not about how many losses are acceptable to you. This poll asks how many losses are acceptable to Snyder.

I think you statement, highlighted above, is correct answer. We have the talent, we have the coaching staff~ now is there the desire to play as a team? If the desire to WIN as a team is there - there will be no polls needed as to whether to retain "I's" vs team. Zorn is most definitely a team player.

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Byner21

Byner21

Posted
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Posted
The thread title is a bit misleading as it makes it sound like how many wins are enough for Zorn to be a success in year 1, not how many would require snyder to keep him.

Thanks, I modified it. Hopefully more clear now. But keep in mind the question is not how many wins would "require" Snyder to keep him. Just how many are the "bare minimum" the team has to win for Zorn to keep his job.

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SoCalSkins

SoCalSkins

Posted
Posted
Honestly, That sucks and is bull. He's a first time head coach. Sure he has all the right peices in place. But he is installing a new offense.

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. It just annoys me that he HAS to have a winning season his first year. It would be great if he did. I'll be happy with him if he gets 6 wins personally. Anything more and I will be very impressed. Anything less and I will still understand and give him the benefit of the doubt.

He is taking over a team that made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years. Expecting a winning season from him is not too high of an expectation. Most coaches take over losing teams and have lower expectations. If Marty got to 8 wins with Tony Banks, Zorn can do better.

If the record is less than 8 wins, there will definitely be talk about someone else here. Zorn has not proven anything as a coach or coordinator in the NFL. If he can't do it in year 1, there is no reason to believe that he could do it in year 2. There is no benefit of the doubt for a guy that has never called an NFL play before.

If the reports of JC playing so well reflect on actual game play, getting to 9 wins shouldn't be too difficult.

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BigRedskinDaddy

BigRedskinDaddy

Posted
Posted
great point, people will need to lower their expectations. Unfortunately, Redskins fans cannot do that. I'd be happy with 7 wins, though I'd be really happy with 10+ wins and a paloff entrance!

Off topic, but nice new sig Mr. S. You do that yourself?

Far as first year wins go, I believe the Dan has learned much more than perhaps most of us realize from Gibbs 2.0. I think (gasp) even if the worst should happen and we stumble out of the gate, and have another snake-bitten season -- and no one here hopes that doesn't happen more than I -- that Zorn will not be on the hot seat. I believe no matter what he will still have the confidence of the FO. His second season will be the real litmus test if this one doesn't live up to expectations IMO.

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Playsmart30

Playsmart30

Posted
Posted

If the redskins go 0-16, Dan got to bring Jim Zorn back. We cannot keep on starting over and learning new system. Look like every year we are learning a new playbook. I feel bad for Jason Campbell what QB you know that got to learn a new playbook 3 of his 4 year here.

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Stophovr6

Stophovr6

Posted
Posted
He is taking over a team that made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years. Expecting a winning season from him is not too high of an expectation. Most coaches take over losing teams and have lower expectations. If Marty got to 8 wins with Tony Banks, Zorn can do better.

And the other year we only got 5 wins. Just saying. Injuries blah blah blah. **** happens is my point.

If the record is less than 8 wins, there will definitely be talk about someone else here. Zorn has not proven anything as a coach or coordinator in the NFL. If he can't do it in year 1, there is no reason to believe that he could do it in year 2. There is no benefit of the doubt for a guy that has never called an NFL play before.

Why not? Why not give him another year if he hasn't called shots before. That's just silly to me. I can't imagine there would be many head coaches in the NFL if they all had to have a .500 season or better.

I

If the reports of JC playing so well reflect on actual game play, getting to 9 wins shouldn't be too difficult.

Practice and game are two different things. Ask Taylor Jacobs.

I think it's ridiculous. If the guy only gets 1 or 2 wins, sure, he probably doesn't have it. But not giving the guy the benefit of the doubt with 6 wins in his first year? That seems fickle and extreme.

We also have to take a look at the division we play in. This isn't a cake walk like the NFC West.

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