Does the American flag belong in church?

[JimmyConway]

Good read. Thought I would share.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0728/p09s02-coop.html

Does the American flag belong in church?

Our allegiance belongs to God, not state power.

By Becky Akers (Christian Science Monitor)

New York - I've attended church weekly all my life, and virtually every congregation with whom I've worshipped displays an American flag. It often stands close to the communion table, probably a church's most sacred spot. Some denominations even recite the Pledge of Allegiance – multiple times. One church I visited in the Midwest began Sunday School with the Pledge but apparently lacked faith it would stick. We interrupted morning worship with another recitation.

All in all, American Christians seem as devoted to their government as Ruth was to Naomi. But should they be? Do either the flag or the Pledge have any place in the Lord's house? Is congregational commitment to the republic for which these emblems stand consistent with Biblical Christianity? Is political power?

Throughout history, Christians have usually been on the wrong side of government. The Roman Empire tortured Jesus Christ to death, then criminalized his friends. Later regimes continued that tradition. They routinely hunted down, imprisoned, tortured, and slaughtered people who clung to their Lord instead of the law. Something like 70 million Christians have died for their faith since AD 33.

The church thought to resolve this by grabbing government's reins. But the same brutality soon surfaced. Believers weren't safe unless they practiced precisely as their brothers in power dictated.

Incredibly, Christians suffered the same tortures and death at the hands of "Christian" rulers as they had from others. At various times in various nations, "Christians" have persecuted their fellows for acknowledging the pope, refusing to acknowledge the pope, baptizing adults instead of babies, baptizing babies instead of adults, etc. Tragically, Christians high on power forsake the Ten Commandments and the golden rule as quickly as anyone else.

The trouble doesn't lie with Christianity but with power. The two have always been at odds. Political power is a synonym for "physical force," for bending people to government's will regardless of their inclinations, interests, or welfare. But Christianity is love – power's antidote. Anyone who sincerely follows Jesus Christ will never try to compel others – because he didn't. Jesus sought to persuade by word and example, loving men so much that he let them judge for themselves the truth of his teachings.

No wonder the state wars against so potent an adversary. Its antagonism compelled America's Founding Fathers to decree, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The Founders weren't only insulating government from Christianity, as today's secularists insist; they also hoped to protect Christianity from the poison of political power. A free society flourishes because of its families, schools, marketplace and churches. If these become mere outposts of government, if the state subsumes them so that they advance its agenda rather than curtail its power, the country sinks into totalitarianism.

How disastrous, then, that many American Christians are too busy courting government to curb it. Preachers vie to endorse political candidates, cozying up to them rather than calling them to account. Churches no longer disdain money taken from people via taxation; instead, they complain that their handouts under the Faith-Based Initiative weren't big enough.

And many support a war in Iraq that has killed tens of thousands and put civilians – including Iraq's brave but tiny Christian community – in great tribulation. Sadly, I have yet to hear any American church pray for Iraqis as they endure the persecution, poverty, and pain this war has inflicted. But congregants who are Americans first and Christians second often ask God to bless our troops on Sundays.

If they think about it at all, most believers probably see the flag and Pledge as tokens of affection for their country. In reality, both symbolize an infatuation with government. Churches hope to change circumstances through political force when Jesus called us to change hearts and minds with his message. We cheat ourselves, trusting the state's inferior and transitory power instead of the Almighty.

We also enhance rather than counter the state's supremacy. Our "patriotism" is really nationalism: unquestioning and enthusiastic support of political power. Christians eager to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's have the rest of the week to do so. But the things rendered should not include our allegiance. That belongs to God. Why taint our worship by pledging it to the state's flag instead?

On trial for his life, Jesus Christ asserted his divinity while denying that his kingdom was of this world. It's ironic that Americans who accept the first truth devoutly reject the latter.

• Becky Akers is a freelance writer and historian. She worships in Protestant churches.

[TimmySmith]

The American flag belongs in church if the parishioners want it there. It could be called the greatest symbol of religious freedom in the history of man. The fact that people choose to associate the flag with politics is unfortunate.

[Thiebear]

Edit:

This seems more of a hit piece on Christains than a question.

[Zguy28]

I pretty much agree with what the writer is saying. I have been trying to get my church to stop doing these things as well.

Its a shame it comes from the CSM. Most protestants view the Christian Scientist church as heretical.

[Oldskool]

Its a shame it comes from the CSM. Most protestants view the Christian Scientist church as heretical.

I'm not a Protestant but you are correct, they are.

The flags (We have multiple in my congregation) are not there as an overt display of state power in any sense of the word.

[Destino]

Interesting article. I've often argued against the mixing of government and religion but these days church is all too often just another special interest group hoping to convince you to support their political stances.

[Kilmer17]

Interesting discussion.

If the Church wants it there, then yes.

If the Govt tries to force the church to put it there, then absolutely NOT. This is the point of the first amendment, Govt out of church, not church out of govt.

[headexplode]

"We also enhance rather than counter the state's supremacy. Our "patriotism" is really nationalism: unquestioning and enthusiastic support of political power."

I don't agree with this. I think Americans have a strong and proud history of taking patriotic stands against political power. Sure, there is a strong nationalist current here, as well, but transformations in government, for good or ill, have always come from the people. People that loved their country, and wanted to make it better.

[DCSaints_fan]

Why not? This is one of the first countries that gave religions the freedom to worship without government interference. Maybe some feel they should pay homage to that protection.

[Zguy28]

Why not? This is one of the first countries that gave religions the freedom to worship without government interference. Maybe some feel they should pay homage to that protection.

What about the Pledge of Allegiance?

[JMS]

I remember when I moved from N. Virginia down to Mobile Alabama where I attended a Jesuit School for a few years (Jesuit's are an order of Catholic preists who famously runs Universities and Highschools like GeorgeTown, Xavior etc )... I was pretty shocked when they brought the American Flag in during the professional along with the Bible, incense, and eucharist....

I remember discussing it with my class mates. I had been a catholic all my life and had never seen that in the North or in Europe. In the south they didn't see it as controversial or anything out of the norm at all..

And that's within the same church.

Personally I think it's weak. It suggests God likes one country over another. In my religion it used to be controversial to claim God loves one person over another, much less one country. Coarse they're claiming that now too.

[twa]

I have no problem with the flag in church,nor even with the Pledge of allegiance if that is what the congregation wishes...there is no conflict there with my faith.

Allowing politics or endorsing politicians is another matter,and would result in my fighting it or leaving.(though praying for our leaders is certainly acceptable,even recommended)

The freedom granted under the flag is very similar to the liberty we enjoy from God...to choose our own path

[JMS]

Why not? This is one of the first countries that gave religions the freedom to worship without government interference. Maybe some feel they should pay homage to that protection.

Yeah let's put a likeness of George Washington up on the alter too. After all without Washington there would be no United States. How about Lincoln going up there too, after all he is the one who proposed and passed the Emancipation Proclaimation effectively leading to the end of slavery in this country..

Personally the reason why I'm against national symbols going up to the alter is because I am offended by the implied endorsement of god on one country over another, even my own. I don't believe God values one person over another, regardless of religion, much less one country over another. I also don't believe my country is devine, or is incapable of making mistakes. It's my job as a citizen to ensure mistakes don't occur, and if they do they are corrected. That is not a job I feel should be left to faith.

Putting the national symbol on the alter cheapens both the religion and the national symbol. It confuses an institution based around faith and dogma with a republic which should never be overly reliant on either.

Temporal states make mistakes. They do so as function of being of this earth. If your religion, something you must take on faith, is tied up with your patriotism, it seems to me it makes your ability to question the policies of our leaders significantly more challenging. If you loose your ability to interpret the fairness of our laws, are you really able to play the role of a citizen in a Democracy/Republic?

The reason why the founding fathers chose to separate religion and government were because the founding fathers didn't trust government, and didn't trust anybodies elses religon with the power of government. To my way of thinking that should go both directions.

[Zguy28]

Yeah let's put a likeness of George Washington up on the alter too. After all without Washington there would be no United States. How about Lincoln going up there too, after all he is the one who proposed and passed the Emancipation Proclaimation effectively leading to the end of slavery in this country..

Personally the reason why I'm against national symbols going up to the alter is because I am offended by the implied endorsement of god on one country over another. I don't believe god values one person over another, regardless of religion, much less one country over another.

To me putting the national symbol on the alter cheapens both the religion and the national symbol. It confuses an institution based around faith and dogma with a republic which should never be based overly reliant on either.

God does like some nations more than others, although it is not from favoritism. It depends on their actions as a nation/people.

Those nations who act humbly and righteously in God's eyes will be exalted.

Those nations who are prideful and act sinfully in God's eyes will come under reproach and eventually judgment.

Righteousness exalts a nation,

but sin is a reproach to any people. ~ Proverbs 14:34

God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. ~ Proverbs 3:34

[twa]

I'm somewhat in agreement with JMS here,though I have never seen a flag on the altar...we always had them in the corner(Christian flag in one ,American in the other)

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I grew up in a Lutheran congregation where the American flag was proudly displayed near the front of the chapel, opposite the Lutheran flag all the time. I don't see any problem with it, personally. It's there as a reminder of the fact that in this country we are free to worship as we see fit.

My feelings on the Pledge of Allegiance are a little different. Personally, I think it should be ingrained in Americans the way that Muslims pray in the direction of Mecca however many times a day it is they are required to. However, unless the religious service is directly related to the country I don't necessarily see it as an appropriate part of the worship.

[JMS]

Righteousness exalts a nation,

but sin is a reproach to any people. ~ Proverbs 14:34

And as a nation do you believe we have universally acted righteously? Do you believe slavery for the first 100 odd years of our national existance was rightous? Most Americans don't, which is one reason we don't have slavery today.

Do you believe the internment of the Japanese during WWII was righous? The United States congress and senate which appoligized for the act in the 1990's didn't.

Do you believe we acted righously in the Vietnamese war? Where we denied a democratic elected government office because it disagreed with us, and then had our hand picked President murdered when he became inconvient. Think that was righous? Even Captain America changed his name during the Vietnam war as an editorial statement on how far the US government strayed from it's mandate.

The Lesson of history as Lincoln stated.. is not that the United States is always righous or correct. The leason of history is most of us get it right most of the time.

"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time; but not all of the people all of the time."

Which implies clearly that the United States is wrong some of the time, and some of our fellow citizens can be counted on to be wrong all of the time.

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” Matthew 21:22

There is a bibilical vote for separation of church and state, by a man about to be killed by his state for his beliefs.

[Zguy28]

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” Matthew 21:22

I pay taxes.

I stated already that I'm against saying the Pledge of Allegiance in the church and having the flag there.

I wasn't addressing that in response to your post.

[JMS]

I pay taxes.

I stated already that I'm against saying the Pledge of Allegiance in the church and having the flag there.

I wasn't addressing that in response to your post.

But you did say that God loves Americans more than other people.

So I think my comments were

on target.. ..... I don't remember God even mentioning us... ( not counting book of Mormon.. )..

[Predicto]

It's your church. Hang flags if you want to. Heck, you can worship them instead of God if you want to. It's none of my business - that's religious freedom.

[Destino]

Doesn't matter if the US has been right all the time or wrong all the time. Christians are instructed, though most completely ignore it, to look inward. The world is what the world is. The only thing we can control is ourselves and if along the way our example builds something positive, good. We tell people of the word but no where are we told to impose it, no where are we told to act as God himself and decide right and wrong for everyone else.

[Zguy28]

But you did say that God loves Americans more than other people.

on target.. ..... I don't remember God even mentioning us... ( not counting book of Mormon.. )..

Nope.

I never said God favors America. I feel quite the opposite actually in the current culture.

Swing and a miss. Strike two.

[PokerPacker]

since when did god care what country you are from?

[Zguy28]

since when did god care what country you are from?

I don't think anybody said that in this thread.

But, that is an entirely different thing than whether or not God cares what a nation does. :2cents:

[JohnLockesGhost]

My feelings on the Pledge of Allegiance are a little different. Personally, I think it should be ingrained in Americans the way that Muslims pray in the direction of Mecca however many times a day it is they are required to. However, unless the religious service is directly related to the country I don't necessarily see it as an appropriate part of the worship.

Like that "one nation, indivisible" part, do ya?