Late Draft Thoughts and Brennan

[JMUGator19]

The offseason has been taking its toll on me, and I found myself going through how each team drafted this year. What I felt was that on average, each team was drafting about 3 people they thought would turn into solid starters or better while the rest would be special teams and backups.

If you go based on what most coaches around the league thought of players, I can't help but think maybe the skins ended up with a top 5 draft.

Here is my case.

They landed starters in:

• Devin Thomas, who most coaches considered the best WR in the draft
  
• Fred Davis the best TE (most think its him or dustin keller)
  
• Malcolm Kelly (most teams did not have him as the top WR, so I will assume he is not a top WR but did think he was solid. I almost did not include him in this list because he lacks perfect speed... but so did Jerry Rice...)
  
• Chad Rinehart (not the best, but with Joe Bugel... yes he is a starter by year 2.)
  
• Durant Brooks (You just dont draft at this position, and more than one team was willing to)
  

I would NEVER bet on Colt to succeed, except with a coach like Jim Zorn. So my opinion on Colt Brennan is mixed. I finally found an article that I think is appropriate of his potential.

Frankly, he's a sixth round pick, if he fails I won't bat an eye. Which is why I WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe it was the right pick at the right time. The article below sums up perfectly why I would NEVER not pick him. The upside is just unbelievable and the risk is below minimal. (Kind of like Erasmus James)

I think the Redskins walked away from this draft with 5 starters. Obviously in this sport nothing is guaranteed, but by that same token, Justin Tryon could turn into a starter too. Either way, I expect this draft to churn out 4 starters, with one of those 5 busting. The only reason the skins did not have as good a draft as KC is they did not bring in an impact player ala Glen Dorsey.

Enjoy the article.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/can-colt-brennan-be-an-nfl-quarterback/

:logo:

[Reaganaut]

I read the article you posted and the links to Brennan. I am dumfounded as to how we ended up with him in the sixth round. June Jones says that he is better than DeMarkus Russell and Brady Quinn. He threw 75% of his passes complete and most NFL quarterback cannot reach those numbers against air, meaning with no defense rushing or covering. You cannot coach accuracy, leadership or (yes) character and Brennan has them in droves. The entire state of Hawaii loves this guy and he found himself as a person out there. I visited for two weeks a couple years ago and got a taste of the culture out there. He is going to be a great backup that if he gets the start may stay in there.

[elkabong82]

Good assesment. I remember several analysts, including Kiper, saying Kelly looked to be the most NFL-ready WR.

Fred Davis is a potential starter, but obviously he is stuck behind Cooley so he won't be as much of a full time starter as Cooley. Though I'd much rather have the top-rated TE for a team who's O hasn't been top 10 in a long time, than a DE with bust-potential for a team who's D has been top 10 3 out of the last 4 years.

[JMUGator19]

Read the links within the article that talk about his personal life as opposed to just his ball skills. Makes you want to root for the guy.

BTW,

The consensus negative on Devin Thomas is that he is not ready to run NFL routes. and in this day and age, if you cant run routes, your done.

The negative on Malcolm Kelly is that he had trouble with speed in college, what happens in the NFL when everyone is even faster?

The problem with Fred Davis is the can't block well and deep speed. Most teams can't afford to use a 2nd round pick on a "one dimensional" TE.

The knock on Chad Rinehart is his footwork, he is ok in small areas, but in space hes dead meat. He came from a small school and just needs time before he can start.

I assume the Redskins are confident they can teach Devin routes, and that Malcolm will have good enough body control and size to separate with his body not speed. It is not like he is slower than TEs. He's just not Santana Moss. As for Fred Davis, he is EXACTLY what Chris Cooley is, a quick guy, who is amazing at finding holes/zones and body control with size. Last but not least, Chad Rinehart is smart, nasty and packs a punch. Sounds like a good Guard to me if you can teach him footwork.

Thats my guess on what the FO is thinking. If they are right about being able to teach these players then they made the right decisions. If they overestimated their ability to teach, they just wasted their biggest draft in years.

[AAARedskin]

I like Colt Brennan, and from DAY ONE I have said he has the best chance at NFL success being a team like the Redskins who will run a style of offense that should be easy for him to " catch on" with. Cerrato deserves so much credit for this pick in the 6th round (EVEN if Brennan isn't the real deal....he's a 6th round pick!).....this was a very Bobby Bethard type of selection. Todd Collins isn't getting any younger, and the Skins seem to have gotten a young QB at the right time. Sure, he's probably at least 2 years away, so right at about the time Collins steps away from the game, Colt Brennan moves into the No. 2 spot behind Jason Campbell.

[jrockster21]

The only reason the skins did not have as good a draft as KC is they did not bring in an impact player ala Glen Dorsey.

I dunno - its a little early to make that statement. Thomas or Kelly could easily become impact players. :2cents:

[elkabong82]

I dunno - its a little early to make that statement. Thomas or Kelly could easily become impact players. :2cents:

Exactly. The thing he neglects is KC had to suck hard and used a top 5 pick on Dorsey. The Skins weren't in a position to draft an impact player at the level of Dorsey. Nobody who picks at 21 generlly will have that chance. We were smart and traded down, and still drafted players who were the top prospects at their respective positions, in the 2nd round. However, the OP did acknowledge that point as well.

[JMUGator19]

Exactly. The thing he neglects is KC had to suck hard and used a top 5 pick on Dorsey. The Skins weren't in a position to draft an impact player at the level of Dorsey. Nobody who picks at 21 generlly will have that chance. We were smart and traded down, and still drafted players who were the top prospects at their respective positions, in the 2nd round. However, the OP did acknowledge that point as well.

I understand that teams will not likely pick up an impact player with the 21st pick overall... I applaud the teams decisions, however, many teams still manage to find impact players despite never having high draft picks. (New England)

Furthermore, picking up injury plagued players or "troubled players" who can be immediate impacts happen all the time. I guess the best recent example of this is Michael Bush. A bit extreme since he couldn't play the year he was drafted, but the idea is the same. He is a top 10 draft pick, he got picked up in the 4th round.

Finding people who belong in the top 10 down in the mid 20s is not unheard of. Another example is Aaron Rodgers. People love to forget he was a top 10 talent. An "impact" player, and a franchise Quarterback. He tumbled to the spot he was taken in.

Another example if you don't think Aaron Rodgers is the real deal is Willis McGahee. In 2003 he was a legit top 5 pick. Because of injury concerns he falls to 23. Impact Player. There was no question about it from any team, he was not a "surprise". People just didn't want to bother with the risk, which is fine. But don't say there are NO impact players after the top 10.

PS the Bills are not a good offensive team. So do not blame Willis for lack of production. He did alright for the Ravens, and they were a TERRIBLE team.

Case in point, there are known impact players after the first 10 picks that people just choose not to take. If you do not like my examples, who cares, find your own.

:helmet:

[mistertim]

I read the article you posted and the links to Brennan. I am dumfounded as to how we ended up with him in the sixth round. June Jones says that he is better than DeMarkus Russell and Brady Quinn. He threw 75% of his passes complete and most NFL quarterback cannot reach those numbers against air, meaning with no defense rushing or covering. You cannot coach accuracy, leadership or (yes) character and Brennan has them in droves. The entire state of Hawaii loves this guy and he found himself as a person out there. I visited for two weeks a couple years ago and got a taste of the culture out there. He is going to be a great backup that if he gets the start may stay in there.

...and June Jones is someone who will be great in the NFL since? Actually, Brennan was surprised himself that he got drafted. As far as vs. defenses...he didn't exactly play against elite Ds and sure as hell didn't see anything near a pro footbal defense. He was accurate but the sidearm release would probably have to go, as well as the fact that he pretty much worked exclusively from the shotgun.

[Big Ted]

i agree with you mistertim, Colt put up impressive numbers against WAC teams who are notorious for not playing defense. I wouldnt put too much value in those numbers.

[Vicious]

Look, it does not matter. It won't matter for awhile. When Brennan is ready, he is going to have beautiful mechanics. Our head coach is brilliant at teaching mechanics. Brennan will be the entire package. When he is the entire package however, Jason Campbell will be a pro bowl regular and we'll have already won the super bowl.

[Sonny9TD]

The offseason has been taking its toll on me, and I found myself going through how each team drafted this year. What I felt was that on average, each team was drafting about 3 people they thought would turn into solid starters or better while the rest would be special teams and backups.

If you go based on what most coaches around the league thought of players, I can't help but think maybe the skins ended up with a top 5 draft.

Here is my case.

They landed starters in:

• Devin Thomas, who most coaches considered the best WR in the draft
  
• Fred Davis the best TE (most think its him or dustin keller)
  
• Malcolm Kelly (most teams did not have him as the top WR, so I will assume he is not a top WR but did think he was solid. I almost did not include him in this list because he lacks perfect speed... but so did Jerry Rice...)
  
• Chad Rinehart (not the best, but with Joe Bugel... yes he is a starter by year 2.)
  
• Durant Brooks (You just dont draft at this position, and more than one team was willing to)
  

I would NEVER bet on Colt to succeed, except with a coach like Jim Zorn. So my opinion on Colt Brennan is mixed. I finally found an article that I think is appropriate of his potential.

Frankly, he's a sixth round pick, if he fails I won't bat an eye. Which is why I WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe it was the right pick at the right time. The article below sums up perfectly why I would NEVER not pick him. The upside is just unbelievable and the risk is below minimal. (Kind of like Erasmus James)

I think the Redskins walked away from this draft with 5 starters. Obviously in this sport nothing is guaranteed, but by that same token, Justin Tryon could turn into a starter too. Either way, I expect this draft to churn out 4 starters, with one of those 5 busting. The only reason the skins did not have as good a draft as KC is they did not bring in an impact player ala Glen Dorsey.

Enjoy the article.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/can-colt-brennan-be-an-nfl-quarterback/

:logo:

Colt will be the QB for the Skins. Colt is a cool name for a Redskins QB anyway. We're going to end up loving this guy. Go Hogs.

[phatSkins27]

We -have good special teams and dfense but we play in a league of scoring and points.

now you have to play teams and defense to go far you need to hang points on the board and go for the kill when you are up. with teh changes and new young guys we can now score more and go for the kill on offense and helps our defense. if we end up in 3 years having a starting guard, one starting wideout, a good back up TE who could work into starting role, a good 3rd corner, and a decent yup and comming back up QB then this was an awesome draft....the skins have had 3 years worth of draft produce that much!

[The Waterboy]

Well, so Colt put up good numbers against so-so weak defenses. That is what a good QB should do, isn't it? And they weren't just good numbers, they where record numbers.

Someone had to be able to catch what Colt threw, so that means he had to find a receiver, put the ball in a area where a non-NFL quality receiver (didn't see any of his receivers being drafted) could hang on to it fairly easily to get a completion. How many of the 25.6% incompletions were due to receiver head space and timing mistakes that should have been caught?

While no one knows how Colt will turn out as an NFL QB, the rap that he gained his accuracy reputation agains weak defense, dismisses the actual quality of his accomplishment and potential - which is probably why he was available in the 6th round. He appears to have more going for him at this point in his NFL career than an lot QBs coming from powerhouse colleges... hmmm, some Florida colleges come to mind.

[zCommander]

I have already read that article and all the links inside of that article and posted here in many Colt threads. The majority here thinks he won't sucessed and is the next little Palmer. Oh well. We all going to have to just wait and see.

[blindlywewander]

why all the arguing over colt brennan? he might be good, he might not. this thread shouldn't have turned into colt talk. it should be about how much impact this draft has on THIS year. new punter. whoopee. possible backup linemen. some backup safetys/special teamers (should moore and horton make the team). alright. special teams and defense didn't get much attention. but our biggest need was not one position, it was the whole offense. we weren't great on offense last year, or even good. the cowboys/colts/pats/chargers/etc put up points. regardless of how good our defense is, we have to score points. this draft, vinny did all he could to up our offense and i think he has. i see kelly becoming a good receiever, but thomas needs time to develop. receivers are difficult to judge this early. davis is from usc, which has a reputation for punk football players (see matt leinart, lendale white, reggie bush, dwayne jarrett), so it's hard for me to see him becoming anything other than the next robert royal for us. we'll see though. everyone has potential. but with this draft we opened a lot of doors for our offense and it's up to JC and the crew to walk through them

[gkekoa]

How many of you actually stayed up and watched Hawaii games? I did because I am a graduate of Hawaii. Colt Brennan is as accurate at the 75% completion rate suggests. He played against lesser defenses but set records in the process. The only question mark on the guy is his decision-making. He tends to throw 5TDs with 3 picks. Picks are still easy to throw in the NFL while TDs get much harder. He could be a great backup or he could be a great starter or he could be out of the league next year.

The reason KC's draft is rated so highly is simple:

1) They got arguably the best player in the draft.

2) They got hands down the best guard and possibly a tackle out of him in Albert.

3) They got arguably the most complete corner in the draft. Three immediate starters and at least two of them will be pro-bowlers.

[HawaiianTime]

i agree with you mistertim, Colt put up impressive numbers against WAC teams who are notorious for not playing defense. I wouldnt put too much value in those numbers.

Here's the thing, not every team was from the WAC, and Michigan paid to not play Hawaii and got whooped by Appy. If you get a chance, watch how Colt brings Hawaii back from a 21 point 1st quarter deficit against Washington which also had the toughest schedule in '07 or how they sent ASU packing in Dirk Koetter's final game with 5 tds.

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

This is the best overall draft the Redskins have had in YEARS.......

They had 9 picks and ended up with 2 WR's and a TE in the 2nd(The offense was DYING to bring in actual playmakers), an offensive lineman in the 3rd(Definitely need to get younger on the line), CB in the 4th, our future starting Punter for years to come in the 6th(RIP Derek Frost), and Colt Brennan to serve as the #3 and possibility of playing down the line in the 6th round... They didn't address the D-line but you have to believe that they didn't want to reach on some guys if they felt another position player was better...

[bedlamVR]

I think the Draft was good and I cannot wait to see how these guys start lining it up this month .

I know the knock on Davis is he is a one year wonder... he may have trouble adjusting to the NFL but you have to give Wrs 3-4 years to really get used to the NFL and an NFL QB. I am not expecting much...I think he will be interesting to watch and compare his and the career of Jordy Nelson who I think went way too early but was a similiar 1 year wonder.

Kelly on the other hand has had a better overall collage career, the comments about his character seem to stem around his 40 time and whining about the surface . That one event may have dropped him out of the first round ( along with questions about his knees) and cost him millions $$$$$ . I know if it was me and I felt that the collage had not provided the best surface to run on I would be ****ing about it as well . Kelly has nice hands and was quick enough to get separation in collage I think he will have the greater imediate impact off all the round two picks .

Davis was and is a head scratcher . He was prolific and may become a redzone monster and I think it was a case of best player available (Campbell must really not have impressed). He was the offense at USC last year and is a converted WR and has good hands so you cannot expect his blocking to be outstanding . I cannot see him being a huge threat but if he takes attention away from Cooley inside the 20 I can see his value .

Rieheart I really don't know too much about but with Buges coaching him up then I can see good things .

Tyron - Hopefully at least a solid nickle, at worst an Ade Jimoh replacement . Has the mouth and the skills to be an NFL CB, doesn't have the size .

Moore and Holt - Special teamers if they make the roster

Brooks - Will be interesting to see if he can cut it . I think the punters job is his to loose because Frost has shown he is nothing if not inconsistant

Colt - An interesting prospect . The knock is he didn't play anyone but then you can only beat what is in front of you . Hopefully we will never see how good he can be and someone QB hungy will want to trade for him in years to come if he makes the roster .

[NoleSkin21]

Yeah, and 7th rounder Gus Frerotte seemed to have a nice NFL career for himself, and I bet no one thought he would be a starter in the league for 3 or 4 different teams, much less the one that drafted him. His college Tulsa didn't exactly play against the cream of the crop competition either. Give Colt a chance, we aren't asking him to play this year.

[talk show host]

I definitely think we got 6 in this draft who will get significant playing time. Im sure there is always bust potential but Thomas, Davis, Kelly, Rinehart, Tryon, and Brooks will all be starters by 2009. In Tryons case, that means being the #3 corner, but I consider that being a starter.

[dan757]

Read the links within the article that talk about his personal life as opposed to just his ball skills. Makes you want to root for the guy.

BTW,

The consensus negative on Devin Thomas is that he is not ready to run NFL routes. and in this day and age, if you cant run routes, your done.

The negative on Malcolm Kelly is that he had trouble with speed in college, what happens in the NFL when everyone is even faster?

The problem with Fred Davis is the can't block well and deep speed. Most teams can't afford to use a 2nd round pick on a "one dimensional" TE.

The knock on Chad Rinehart is his footwork, he is ok in small areas, but in space hes dead meat. He came from a small school and just needs time before he can start.

I assume the Redskins are confident they can teach Devin routes, and that Malcolm will have good enough body control and size to separate with his body not speed. It is not like he is slower than TEs. He's just not Santana Moss. As for Fred Davis, he is EXACTLY what Chris Cooley is, a quick guy, who is amazing at finding holes/zones and body control with size. Last but not least, Chad Rinehart is smart, nasty and packs a punch. Sounds like a good Guard to me if you can teach him footwork.

Thats my guess on what the FO is thinking. If they are right about being able to teach these players then they made the right decisions. If they overestimated their ability to teach, they just wasted their biggest draft in years.

I have never seen somebody paint a glass half full the way you have.

[skindogger47]

Davis being drafted as a red zone threat and Cooley insurance is fine by me. I questioned the pick at first, but Im really starting to like it more and more. This will give Cooley a lot more opportunities in the red zone too.

My favorite pick in the draft was Durant Brooks. I have been asking to draft a punter for 3 years, and Im happy we finally got one who looks to be a long-term starter.

[ucfSKINS]

Colt will be the QB for the Skins. Colt is a cool name for a Redskins QB anyway. We're going to end up loving this guy. Go Hogs.

Based on what? How will he be 'the' QB for the Skins? And validating your previous statement with 'Colt is a cool name for a Redskins QB' just destroys your credibility.

:2cents: