CBass1724 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I keep reading about how we are going to utilize Cooley and Davis in double TE sets which will really make our offense dynamic when you combine it with our skill players at WR and RB. Here is my question: Do you all think having 2 skillful TE's on the field at the same time will revolutionize offenses of the future? Over the past few years at the RB position, the trend has been to find 2 studs that both compliment each other instead of having a workhorse who carries it 30 times a game. Eventually, do you think each team will try to have 2 "star" TE's whom can both block and spread the field? I know 2 TE sets are nothing new but a lot of times one of those TE's, if not both, are basically acting as extra O-lineman. Imagine having 2 Cooley's on the field at once, or having 2 Tony Gonzales' lining up on each end next to the tackles. You never know which one is going to stay and block or who is going out for a pass...maybe both? I'm excited about this year because I don't know of any teams that have 2 TE's that are as skillful catching the ball as we do. Hopefully that will make us scary in the redzone and make us unpredictable at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer5500 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I think it could definitely start a trend in the league. Especially if our offense becomes very explosive, other teams will want to try to duplicate our success. There are many advantages to having 2 dangerous tight ends. Like you said, you never know whos going to block and whos going to burn you for a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 But when niether one are good blockers, now you have a liabilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
return2glory Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Two tight end sets are a great idea. However, not effective unless both can block and catch exceptionally well. Chris Cooley isn't the most effective blocking TE. Adding a similar TE would most likely weaken the pass protection. If Cooley can improve his blocking under Zorn and Davis can prove to do the same, then we would have a legitimate threat because it would be hard for defenses to determine who was going to get the ball, this is what made seatle's offense so good. They even ran a t formation in the backfield. Keeping an offensive formation symmetrical makes it very hard on opposing defenses because the qb can always audible the play to be run to the opposite side without alerting the defense of the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatSkins27 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 But when niether one are good blockers, now you have a liabilty. When did Cooley become a bad blocker? I think with the use of smaller and lighter weakside LBs in 4-3 set esp in teh tampa 2 variant you will see more two tight end sets because the weakside LB will be easier to block with a more athletic TE and the Strng side LB may be too slow to cover effectively so with two good TE's blocking and catching you can crteate real trouble for defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I don't see it becoming a trend. Like someone already said, unless they can block also, it doesn't matter. I for one didn't feel the Skins needed Davis but so be it. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 When did Cooley become a bad blocker?I think with the use of smaller and lighter weakside LBs in 4-3 set esp in teh tampa 2 variant you will see more two tight end sets because the weakside LB will be easier to block with a more athletic TE and the Strng side LB may be too slow to cover effectively so with two good TE's blocking and catching you can crteate real trouble for defenses. When did he become a GOOD blocker? He wasnt a blocker at all coming out of college, and while he has improved, he isnt a great blocker by any stretch of the imagination. And Davis is the same thing, a very weak blocker coming out of college. Cooley is a better blocker by far right now, but he's not a very good blocker. So what do you do, keep your Pro Bowl TE in to block while you have a rookie running routes? I really hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I think "revolutionize" is way too strong a term. The two-TE set should be a strong point for us as long as we can run the ball effectively with it. Then we can pass, and see if anyone out there has two linebackers who can cover Cooley AND Davis. But we'll be using 4-wr's too. It's all about creating mismatches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinnesscrazy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 So what do you do, keep your Pro Bowl TE in to block while you have a rookie running routes? Cooley will get his plays, and I think he will get even better if Davis can end up drawing some defenders. Only way that happens is if you DO get the ball to Davis and have Cooley block. Once (and if) Davis makes some plays and earns some respect from other teams, then Cooley suddenly becomes wide open again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 When a defense sees us with both Davis and Cooley in they cannot assume we will be running a 2TE packages since Cooley has played the X and Z effectively (he's created a couple of TDs and some big gainers). Davis also seems to me that he'd have that kind of ability. Further, the 2TE forms in the WCO allow you to run almost any play in your playbook. So if you throw in Cooley's proven versatility and the fact that you still can run almost any play, you now come close to being able to run almost your whole playbook so defenses MUST defend against almost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 When did he become a GOOD blocker? He wasnt a blocker at all coming out of college, and while he has improved, he isnt a great blocker by any stretch of the imagination. And Davis is the same thing, a very weak blocker coming out of college. Cooley is a better blocker by far right now, but he's not a very good blocker. So what do you do, keep your Pro Bowl TE in to block while you have a rookie running routes?I really hope not. With the spread offense becoming popular in college, you aren't going to find very many TEs who are great pass receivers who are also pretty good blockers. The good thing is, you can teach a guy to block. The days of guys who do both well are probably coming to an end. The top TEs are more revered for their pass catching ability and blocking is an afterthought. Course, with the league turning into more of a passing league anyways, teams are looking for those guys to create mismatches. As for the 2 TEs, we aren't the first team going in that direction. The Cowboys have been trying to do the same thing. Indy had two TEs which they used on a regular basis (not always on the field at the same time, tho.) Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 You can't revolutionize offenses of the future by doing something that has already been done. Having 2 TE that are receiving threats on the field together is nothing new. One of the Colts base sets is Single Back, 2 TE, 2 WR many other teams use at times, and in recent memory the Packers had it with Chumra and Jackson. All pass catching TE struggle with blocking, but at least the can improve in that area. You can't make someone into a pass catcher but you can improve their ability to block. Look at Tony Gonzalez he was a bad blocker when he first came in and now he is a good blocker. Coaches scheme to put their players in the best situations, they won't have Davis trying to hold the edge on a sweep until he's ready. I hope we use a lot of 2 TE sets, the TE is the QB's best friend. I can't wait to see the unveiling of the Zorn's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 quite frankly, if Davis and Cooley are not on the field at the same time, no matter what the other 2 draft screw u- I mean "BPA" WR's do, this draft will be a bust. Even if Davis is head and shoulders above Cooley's ability-which I highly doubt, all you have done is replace a guy who will go to 7 probowls in the next ten years with a guy who will go to 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
posse87 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 It will only become trend setting if they are successful. Who would copy an unsuccessful model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hard to call it "revolutionary," since it's been done before. We do, however, stand a good chance of owning the best tight end tandem in the division, which would be fun to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGreenistheBest Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Having the best anything tandem in the league just makes my stomach ball up now. It makes me illogically nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Don't know how "revolutionary" it would be. The Patriots have used a lot of 2 TE sets under Belichick. In their Super Bowl years, they were rolling out there with two stud TEs in Ben Watson and Daniel Graham. The Ravens earlier this decade were running with Shannon Sharpe and Ben Coates in 2 TE sets. The Cowboys were going to run 2 TEs under Parcells which is why they drafted Fasano in the 2nd when they already had Witten. And there are plenty others who have done it. Hell, we ran it back in the 80s. I think we first need to decide if Davis is a gamer before we talk about how revolutionary our 2 TE set would be. We certainly wouldn't be first to run it successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Cooley will get his plays, and I think he will get even better if Davis can end up drawing some defenders. Only way that happens is if you DO get the ball to Davis and have Cooley block. Once (and if) Davis makes some plays and earns some respect from other teams, then Cooley suddenly becomes wide open again... This is a really poor argument. What happens if Thomas or Kelly really take off this year? Or ARE or Moss is having a great season. Basically, if we get a couple guys doing well, coverage will role to them and other guys will be open. Duh. But 2 TE's is not the same as having 2 WR's. Your base formation has 2 WR's on the field, not 2 TE's. So, who are you going to yank to get Davis his touches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrenkels Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 This can continue to confuse a defense through out a game. It all can be a signture in either way they line up. The stronger blocker on one side and the weaker blocker on the other could show that the run play is going to the strong side, a defensive linemen might think run to that side. Ordinarily plays with the offensive linemen leaning forward would be a run play. Like it the factors in, if the O-linemen is leaning back-pass play. Consequently incorporate movement to load one side of the line and move receivers out. So much you could do with this 2 TE formation.:point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 With the spread offense becoming popular in college, you aren't going to find very many TEs who are great pass receivers who are also pretty good blockers. The good thing is, you can teach a guy to block. You can teach guys alot of things, but they have to WANT to do them. blocking sint much fun, especially if your used to getting alot of ball thrown to you. The knock on Davis is his desire and work ethic. I dont see him busting his ass to be the best blocker he can be. The days of guys who do both well are probably coming to an end. The top TEs are more revered for their pass catching ability and blocking is an afterthought. Course, with the league turning into more of a passing league anyways, teams are looking for those guys to create mismatches. Maybe, maybe not. But our offense is still dependent on the run for the time being, so having a real blocker is important. That and we have a probowl TE already. Some teams use 2 TE's but mostly it's when they dont have great WR's. Now, we dont have the best, but we just blew 2 2nd round picks on WR's and we already had ARE and Moss. So we seem (on paper) to be really deep there ATM. 3-4 WR's when you have some real talent at WR is probably going to create more mismatches than 2 TE's will. Thomas on a scrub like Eubanks?!?!!?!?!?! That just screams "Im open". As for the 2 TEs, we aren't the first team going in that direction. The Cowboys have been trying to do the same thing. Indy had two TEs which they used on a regular basis (not always on the field at the same time, tho.)Jason Very True. However Indy did that because they lost Harrison for most of their season, and Clark was basically their third best WR so they split him out alot. Dallas has "Teri" Glenn who is old and fragile and Owen who is old, so they are not young or real deap at the WR position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrenkels Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 This is a really poor argument. What happens if Thomas or Kelly really take off this year? Or ARE or Moss is having a great season. Basically, if we get a couple guys doing well, coverage will role to them and other guys will be open.Duh. But 2 TE's is not the same as having 2 WR's. Your base formation has 2 WR's on the field, not 2 TE's. So, who are you going to yank to get Davis his touches? Why yank anyone? Keep adding a fresh body to the position and keep getting up. We all know that the NFL is nothing but teams tring staying healthy the whole season. Move them in and out see who gets a better match up to his advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Why yank anyone? Keep adding a fresh body to the position and keep getting up. We all know that the NFL is nothing but teams tring staying healthy the whole season. Move them in and out see who gets a better match up to his advantage. Because you cant have 12 guys on the field. Someone is going to have to come out to get Davis in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I'd pause before I call Fred Davis a star. Let him accomplish something. I didn't see much that separates him from Dominic Byrd (his predecesor at USC) and Byrd hasn't done anything in this league. I don't think it will be a trend, there's so much money that needs to be spread out over a team that it's a luxury to have two stars at TE. You also have to consider the offensive scheme of a team. I don't see many franchises changing the way they play football just to accomodate two TEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrenkels Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I'd pause before I call Fred Davis a star. Let him accomplish something. I didn't see much that separates him from Dominic Byrd (his predecesor at USC) and Byrd hasn't done anything in this league.I don't think it will be a trend, there's so much money that needs to be spread out over a team that it's a luxury to have two stars at TE. You also have to consider the offensive scheme of a team. I don't see many franchises changing the way they play football just to accomodate two TEs. It's nothing new having a 2 TE set. But if you have a baller like Cooley and have rookie in the wings like Davis. Why not try and use some of the weapons you got. Same goes for Kelly and Thomas. Moss and Randel El both need to stay healthy. But if one goes out at least we have some depth.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjbrown Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 It could be very interesting if it creates mismatches. Would a two tight end/wr set get different coverage than a three wr/ one tight end set. If so it could be very useful in setting up runs or getting mismatches in coverage. Also, as long as they are better at blocking than the wr, it could be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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