Ranking the offensive line...Updated Pete Prisco Rankings CBS

[bedlamVR]

I have a question . why is it the Cowboys are said to have one of the best if not the best offensive lines in the NFL ? The OL is good but not great and surely not the best at the moment .

I remember seeing teams get plenty of pressure on Romo sits to pee and it is his superior scrambling ability that gets him out of trouble .. I remember snaps sailing over Romos head or bobbling towards his ankles ( Probowl center haahahahaaha) I remember the Boys giving up 25 sacks compared to an injury plauged Skins line giving up 29 ... I DONT remember the cowboys having a dominant running game or any of the runners getting over 1000 yards .... they are in the middle of the pack in terms of rushing prettey good average per carry but they abandon the run because it is not as effective as having Terrell Owens on the field .

The question is if you can not go of stats or performances because every team is different how do you go about ranking something as subjective as the OL ?

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10851305

Okay so it appears you can rank the offensinve line . Pete Prisco thinks the boys are the best and the Skins by far the worst in the NFCE. Randy Thomas our best player ....ermm No love for Samuels ?

Washington Redskins

Best player: RG Randy Thomas. Weak link: C Casey Rabach.

The skinny: The Redskins line was hurt last season when Jon Jansen was lost for all but one game with an injury and Thomas missed most of the season. If Jansen and left tackle Chris Samuels can stay on the field, the Redskins have a solid line. Thomas and Pete Kendall give them two veteran guards who get the job done. They have some quality depth in Jason Fabini and Stephen Heyer, two players forced to start last season because of the injuries to Thomas and Jansen.

Rating: 16

Philadelphia Eagles

Best player: RG Shawn Andrews. Weak link: LG Todd Herremans.

The skinny: This was the unit that helped the Eagles to the playoffs in 2006. But it didn't play as well last season, giving up 49 sacks after 29 the year before. Andrews was clearly the best of the group, but the others didn't play as well as they did in 2006. Tackles Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan are getting up in years, and that's a concern. Center Jamaal Jackson needs to play better.

Rating: 9

New York Giants

Best player: RG Chris Snee. Weak link: LG Rich Seubert.

The skinny: The Giants' line exceeded expectations last season, especially the tackles. Right tackle Kareem McKenzie and left tackle David Diehl played good football in the Super Bowl run. Center Shaun O'Hara is underrated. Snee is a Pro Bowl player who hasn't gone yet, while Seubert is a fighter.

Rating: 7

Dallas Cowboys

Best player: C Andre Gurode. Weak link: LG Kyle Kosier.

The skinny: This is an outstanding line from tackle to tackle. Picking out a weak line is tough, but Kosier is the choice. Gurode and right guard Leonard Davis are both coming off outstanding seasons. It will be interesting to see how left tackle Flozell Adams plays with his new contract.

Rating: 1

[bubba9497]

the Pokes OL has been the worst of the NFC East teams the past few years

even with all the injuries last season, the Pokes weren't any better than the Skins last season

rank (when healthy)

1. Skins

2. Giants

3. Eagles

4. Pokes

[bubba9497]

The question is if you can not go of stats or performances because every team is different how do you go about ranking something as subjective as the OL ?

yes you can go by Stats

1. Sacks allowed (pressues, and hurries)

2. Avg sack per pass attempt

3. Total Rushing Yards

4. Avg yards per carry

5. Penalties committed

6. Short yardage success rate

also KC Joyner does some very good metrics on success of blocking, rated for each position and as a combined unit.

finally the old eyeball test watch the lines play, it is obvious who dominates, and which teams preform best as a unit

[bedlamVR]

I understand what you are saying Bubba do you have any idea of what those metrics were for 07 ?

Living in the UK we had exceptional NFCE coverage last year on Sky TV and I keep hearing the cowboys have the best OL from various sources but I keep seeing both in statisitics and by watching the games that they don't look "special" and yet three of them went to the Pro bowl .... whats with that ? Did the hogs or the tripplets offensive line ever send three players in one year to the probowl?

[KiwiSupaFlyNuka]

the Pokes OL has been the worst of the NFC East teams the past few years

even with all the injuries last season, the Pokes weren't any better than the Skins last season

rank (when healthy)

1. Skins

2. Giants

3. Eagles

4. Pokes

I don't want to sound like a homer but....objectively speaking, I'm not sure how in the world you would rank the Skins O-line ahead of the Giants.

[bubba9497]

the reason the Pokes sent so many players is simply name recognizition

they won 13 games, and played the most on National TV last year

Flozell is a funny name

Davis signed a huge contract

and Guode was the guy Haynesworth cleated in the head

for positions that 90% of fans couldn't name outside of their own team.... you do something to get your name remembered.... you'll get a lot pro bowl votes

[MartinC]

I understand what you are saying Bubba do you have any idea of what those metrics were for 07 ?

Living in the UK we had exceptional NFCE coverage last year on Sky TV and I keep hearing the cowboys have the best OL from various sources but I keep seeing both in statisitics and by watching the games that they don't look "special" and yet three of them went to the Pro bowl .... whats with that ? Did the hogs or the tripplets offensive line ever send three players in one year to the probowl?

Forget the Probowl as a guide to anything other than name recognition and the palyers teams picked won/loss. Even then the number of players the Cowboys sent to the ProBowl last season was bad joke with Roy Williams being exhibit A.

Here is a link to a ranking NFL.com did on the O'lines based on touchdowns per carry, yards per carry, yards per pass attempt and sacks allowed per pass attempt.

http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/story;jsessionid=E7943F88AC558264C5BE14FCEB5B1CE7?id=09000d5d8081c55d&template=with-video&confirm=true

Its not an exact science and actually the Cowboys ranked highest of all the NFC East teams and #3 overall last year based on these metrics. That was helped by Romos ability to aviod the sack, the big play threat of TO and critically all their starters stying healthy for almost all the season. To be fair though they do have a pretty good O'line when all their starters are healthy.

We ranked #17 overall and last in the NFC East which given we had a rookie UDFA starting most of the year at RT and backup tackle playing RG all season was not a bad effort. We were hurt by the low yarsd per carry which was certainly a result of our best two run blocking lineman missing almost the whole season.

I recall in '83 we sent Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bostic to the Pro Bowl.

[bubba9497]

I don't want to sound like a homer but....objectively speaking, I'm not sure how in the world you would rank the Skins O-line ahead of the Giants.

simply because when healthy they are better by far.... in 05-06 the Redskins were arguably the best OL in football ranking in the top 8 in almost every category for line stats like those mentioned above.... something only one other team accomplished... and they ranked below the Skins

Samuels maybe the best LT in football.. Joyner ranks him the most successful blocker in the NFL

Jansen is also considered one of the best RT in the game... and many experts claim the Skins have the best bookend tackles in the NFL

Thomas is the best RG in the east, and the best down field lead blocker in the NFL

Kendall is long in the tooth, but still considered a top LG

Rabach is is very efficient and vastly underrated

[MartinC]

simply because when healthy they are better by far.... in 05-06 the Redskins were arguably the best OL in football ranking in the top 8 in almost every category for line stats like those mentioned above.... something only one other team accomplished... and they ranked below the Skins

Samuels maybe the best LT in football.. Joyner ranks him the most successful blocker in the NFL

Jansen is also considered one of the best RT in the game... and many experts claim the Skins have the best bookend tackles in the NFL

Thomas is the best RG in the east, and the best down field lead blocker in the NFL

Kendall is long in the tooth, but still considered a top LG

Rabach is is very efficient and vastly underrated

I concur - when healthy our starting 5 is a good as anybodies. Jansen might be the weak link in pass protection.

They need to stay healthy though especially Thomas as he makes a massive difference to the run game when he is in there.

Both Dallas and the Giants stayed healthy last year on the O'Line and that showed.

[KiwiSupaFlyNuka]

simply because when healthy they are better by far.... in 05-06 the Redskins were arguably the best OL in football ranking in the top 8 in almost every category for line stats like those mentioned above.... something only one other team accomplished... and they ranked below the Skins

Samuels maybe the best LT in football.. Joyner ranks him the most successful blocker in the NFL

Jansen is also considered one of the best RT in the game... and many experts claim the Skins have the best bookend tackles in the NFL

Thomas is the best RG in the east, and the best down field lead blocker in the NFL

Kendall is long in the tooth, but still considered a top LG

Rabach is is very efficient and vastly underrated

I get it...so individually you are saying that the Skins have better Offensive lineman....but ultimately, as a unit, the Giants have a better offensive line. Fair enough.

[bubba9497]

touchdowns per carry, yards per pass attempt

neither gives a fair view of the OL

receiving yards is based on much you throw it, and what your receivers can do with the ball if and when they catch it

as is the touchdown per carry nonsense.... if a team doesn't score any td's is based on many factors, the OL being a small part... also many teams score more by passing than rushing.... doesn't mean their OL is any worse

Total Yards Rushing

the Giants were the best in the NFCE last season

Giants 2148 (#4 NFL)

Philly 1974 (#8 NFL)

Redskins 1871 (#12 NFL)

Pokes 1746 (#17 NFL)

Yards Per Carry

Philly was best

Philly 4.7 YPC (#2 NFL)

Giants 4.5 YPC (#3T NFL)

Pokes 4.2 YPC (#7T NFL)

Skins 3.8 YPC (#22 NFL)

Sacks Allowed

the Pokes allowed 25 (#10 NFL)

Giants 28, (#12 NFL)

Skins 29, (#13 NFL)

Philly 49 (#28 NFL)

Sacks per Pass Attempt

Pokes a sack every 21.2 pass attempts

Giants 1 sack every 19.4 pass attempts

Skins 1 sack every 18.2 pass attempts

Eagles 1 sack every 11.8 pass attempts

[bubba9497]

I get it...so individually you are saying that the Skins have better Offensive lineman....but ultimately, as a unit, the Giants have a better offensive line. Fair enough.

ut no

the Giants have rated below the Skins every the past 4 years except last year... when the Skins had so many injuries having both Jansen and Thomas out almost the entire season, even Wade the backup missed games with injuries relying on an UDFA to start several games... even Rabach missed a game, and Kendall came 2 weeks before the season began

[MartinC]

neither gives a fair view of the OL

receiving yards is based on much you throw it, and what your receivers can do with the ball if and when they catch it

as is the touchdown per carry nonsense.... if a team doesn't score any td's is based on many factors, the OL being a small part... also many teams score more by passing than rushing.... doesn't mean their OL is any worse

I agree that the choice of metrics NFL.com used was a little strange but there are som nay factors which effect the ratings that its difficult to come up with a definitive list. Play calling, quality of skill players, offensive system, is your QB a good scrambler or not etc etc. Health is the real key - if yo ucan keep your starting 5 together you have a chance to be at least decent, if you have injuries its tough to stay competitive - who knew!

The stats you showed are interesting. Philly are the odd team out really being awful at pass protection which is a bit of an issue when you throw as much as they do.

[DeMarco Murray 29]

neither gives a fair view of the OL

receiving yards is based on much you throw it, and what your receivers can do with the ball if and when they catch it

as is the touchdown per carry nonsense.... if a team doesn't score any td's is based on many factors, the OL being a small part... also many teams score more by passing than rushing.... doesn't mean their OL is any worse

Total Yards Rushing

the Giants were the best in the NFCE last season

Giants 2148 (#4 NFL)

Philly 1974 (#8 NFL)

Redskins 1871 (#12 NFL)

Pokes 1746 (#17 NFL)

Yards Per Carry

Philly was best

Philly 4.7 YPC (#2 NFL)

Giants 4.5 YPC (#3T NFL)

Pokes 4.2 YPC (#7T NFL)

Skins 3.8 YPC (#22 NFL)

Sacks Allowed

the Pokes allowed 25 (#10 NFL)

Giants 28, (#12 NFL)

Skins 29, (#13 NFL)

Philly 49 (#28 NFL)

Sacks per Pass Attempt

Pokes a sack every 21.2 pass attempts

Giants 1 sack every 19.4 pass attempts

Skins 1 sack every 18.2 pass attempts

Eagles 1 sack every 11.8 pass attempts

You also have to take into consideration how many times teams threw the ball.

If a team rushes the ball 300 times and passes 200 compared to a team that throws the ball 400 times and runs 100 the #'s will be screwed regardless.

It is almost an impossible metric to decide who has the best line. However, the Cowboys line is 50,000 times better then any thing we put on the field since about 96'.

But honestly speaking, just looking at stats IMO, The Giants have the best O-Line. Maybe not Talent wise, but production wise hands down.

[VCDefectors]

Maybe you guys can collaborate with tr1 and come up with a consistent storyline about the Cowboys OL. It was, after all, tr1's contention that it was the "extraordinary play" of the Cowboys OL that made it possible for Romo sits to pee to play above his "average" ability. If memory serves correct, I don't recall anybody here who disagreed with tr1's analysis at the time.

Carry on.

[MartinC]

Maybe you guys can collaborate with tr1 and come up with a consistent storyline about the Cowboys OL. It was, after all, tr1's contention that it was the "extraordinary play" of the Cowboys OL that made it possible for Romo sits to pee to play above his "average" ability. If memory serves correct, I don't recall anybody here who disagreed with tr1's analysis at the time.

Carry on.

I did say you had a good O'line based on your starters though I think Guorde is significantly over rated as a centre. The ability to shotgun snap would seem pretty crucial for a starting NFL centre let alone a Pro Bowler.

Be interesting to see what happened if you had a couple of injuries like we did last year.

[VCDefectors]

I did say you had a good O'line based on your starters though I think Guorde is significantly over rated as a centre. The ability to shotgun snap would seem pretty crucial for a starting NFL centre let alone a Pro Bowler.

Be interesting to see what happened if you had a couple of injuries like we did last year.

Anything is possible, but I don't wish for injuries on any player for any reason whatsoever.

I look to see better overall consistency out of the Cowboys OL this season. They will be playing in the same system as last season. Gurode and Davis are now 100% healthy and hopefully will stay there. I also like the depth we have. Doug Free is a player I was kind of hoping to see start this season. I think he's going to be a good one.

As far as the Redskins go, when healthy, they are right up there with the best. But if I was going to make a wild prediction, I would bet money that this is the season that Demarcus Ware is gonna finally take it to Samuels. Ware is only getting better and better, while Samuels seems to have leveled off. Yes, that's probably my Cowboys bias seeping through, but I would put it a bookmark on this one.

[FlyinO]

But if I was going to make a wild prediction, I would bet money that this is the season that Demarcus Ware is gonna finally take it to Samuels. Ware is only getting better and better, while Samuels seems to have leveled off. Yes, that's probably my Cowboys bias seeping through, but I would put it a bookmark on this one.

Stop! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Just stop it! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[VCDefectors]

Stop! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Just stop it! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well, you got me on record, so bring it!!! Samuels is going down :evil:

[MartinC]

Anything is possible, but I don't wish for injuries on any player for any reason whatsoever.

I look to see better overall consistency out of the Cowboys OL this season. They will be playing in the same system as last season. Gurode and Davis are now 100% healthy and hopefully will stay there. I also like the depth we have. Doug Free is a player I was kind of hoping to see start this season. I think he's going to be a good one.

As far as the Redskins go, when healthy, they are right up there with the best. But if I was going to make a wild prediction, I would bet money that this is the season that Demarcus Ware is gonna finally take it to Samuels. Ware is only getting better and better, while Samuels seems to have leveled off. Yes, that's probably my Cowboys bias seeping through, but I would put it a bookmark on this one.

If I was the Cowboys defensive coordinator I would have no interest in seeing what Ware can do with Samuels - I would have Ware lined up on Jansen or whoever is at RT by the time we play you every passing down.

Samuels is one of the top 5 pass protecting LT's in the NFL - even if Ware is improving why not line up up over the weaker tackle? If they do line him up over Samuels he may beat him now and then - every tackle is human and we do leave Samuels out on a isalnd with no help - but more often than not he will take care of him.

Re your line interesting to see what kind of year Flozzel Adams has now he has been paid - maybe this is my turn to clutch at straws

[VCDefectors]

If I was the Cowboys defensive coordinator I would have no interest in seeing what Ware can do with Samuels - I would have Ware lined up on Jansen or whoever is at RT by the time we play you every passing down.

Samuels is one of the top 5 pass protecting LT's in the NFL - even if Ware is improving why not line up up over the weaker tackle? If they do line him up over Samuels he may beat him now and then - every tackle is human and we do leave Samuels out on a isalnd with no help - but more often than not he will take care of him.

Re your line interesting to see what kind of year Flozzel Adams has now he has been paid - maybe this is my turn to clutch at straws

In Phillips' 3-4, Ware gets moved around all over the place, so it's not like he's gonna get lined up on Samuels every snap. But he will at least some of the time. Like I've said before, it's about that point in his career where Ware should be ready to take it to the next level.

[MartinC]

In Phillips' 3-4, Ware gets moved around all over the place, so it's not like he's gonna get lined up on Samuels every snap. But he will at least some of the time. Like I've said before, it's about that point in his career where Ware should be ready to take it to the next level.

Ware is stud right now - I don't really want to think about him improving if thats all the same with you. To think we had the chance to draft him

[VCDefectors]

Ware is stud right now - I don't really want to think about him improving if thats all the same with you. To think we had the chance to draft him

Ware is definitely getting close to being an elite pass rusher, but he needed to work a little on his inside rushing techniques. I still see a tendency to run to the outside a little too much and overpursue the play, but did make significant improvements on that last season. Still, being only 25, I think he's going to be even better this season.

[VA Cowboy fan]

The boys had a good O line last year...to say it was the best or even one of the best would be a reach.....I do think they will improve this year now that we have a new line coach...or should I say our old line coach back.......

[skinsince72]

Considering Dallas only had 4 fewer sacks, there is a more than valid argument that the Skins have a comparable if not better Oline. The Skins performed w/ 2 QB's that are not known for their scrambling ability. And, their right side was MIA.

I guess our opener w/ NY will really tell how things transpire this year. I'm just hoping our rookie stud will see some early action.