Ranking the offensive line...Updated Pete Prisco Rankings CBS

[BigDFan5]

That doesn't represent an understanding of the word fact.

The only way to know for sure is to poll the Skins coaches obviously, but please dont tell me you think Doughty is better than Williams I can not take that seriously

[BigMike619]

Umm Roy wasnt benched during pass plays, do some research

sure he wasnt. they didnt pull him in when there were 3 WRs?

why dont YOU do some research and stop trying to make **** up.

[BigMike619]

The only way to know for sure is to poll the Skins coaches obviously' date=' but please dont tell me you think Doughty is better than Williams I can not take that seriously[/quote']

and you think you're being taken seriously right now?

you think ONE person besides maybe your troll buddy up there thinks you are right on here?

[BigDFan5]

not even most Poke fans would take this statement seriously

come on BigD... this isn't even debatable

before Taylos death... Landry was the SS

Williams wishes he was as good as LL. After Taylors deathand Landry moved and Doughty played SS, he started slow and had a horrible first game (which is Roy Boys norm) but improved so much over the next few games the Redskins made zero moves to find someone to replace him

Roy Boy is getting trashed by the media, fans, and teammates... Doughty was getting nothing but praise from the coaching staff (and media) since the season ended

live in your fantasy world, but don't expect the rest of us join you there

Why do you bring up Landry and Taylor they have nothing to do with this

This is Doughty and Williams and Williams > Doughty unless you "live in fantasy world"

[BigDFan5]

Davis would start over Kendall... you are right

Davis plays the same position as Thomas though.... Would he start? No.

They play Guard and Davis played LG for the Cards at a time. We moved him to right instead of changing 2 players positions we did one

Romo sits to pee had 19 interceptions last year and most were his fault. He is average in the big picture and chokes under pressure big time. So is Jason Campbell, but Campbell has a way bigger upside... you have and will see much more this year. It was nice that Romo sits to pee had a full season to work as well. Think of what Campbell did against Detroit, that is what you will see this year.

Again you keep saying "you will see" You pick startewrs based on what you have already seen. Based on that Romo sits to pee would start 100% of the time

The rest is a clash in opinion... I might give you the Greg Ellis argument, but if you need to switch players around to try to gain leverage it defeats the purpose, right?

No. Its common knowledge that DE's in a 34 play DT in a 43, and OLB in a 34 play DE in a 43 Thats why I moved them to the position they would play on that team

Laron Landry can outplay your whole secondary and play any of their positions. He was a freakin rookie!

Thats pretty funny since Landry is not part of the conversation, but Newman > Landry so false

London Fletcher is better than any of your linebackers save Demarcus Ware. Chris Samuels is better than any of your O-linemen. Almost every receiver on our roster is better than what you have hanging on to TO's jersey.

Well hell then there is no doubt the Skins finsih better than the Cowboys this year right?

[BigDFan5]

sure he wasnt. they didnt pull him in when there were 3 WRs?

why dont YOU do some research and stop trying to make **** up.

No they didnt, I dont need to research I watched every game I know you didnt you just repeat what you hear even when its false

[BigDFan5]

Have to go get my son a haircut before they close, I shall return later

[BigMike619]

No they didnt, I dont need to research I watched every game I know you didnt you just repeat what you hear even when its false

oh well since youve been so dead on we should just take your word for it then. :laugh:

make sure they refill your head with air too while youre there!!

[bubba9497]

bottom line, the SS has to cover in the Skins defense

Roy can't cover his own ass with a towel

he has been one of the worst safeties the past few years in allowing TD per pass defended, yards allowed, completions per passes defended... if not the worst

and his run support isn't that great either. He gets blocked out easily, and is usually out of position... it's coming out that he doesn't even understand the defense at times

Doughty is a good tackler, better in coverage, and extremely bright... and quickly improving each week.... and he plays teams

factor in the salary of each... you don't have a case

[bubba9497]

I dont need to research I watched every game

for someone whose constantly asks for links, and accuses others of not verifying their arguments

I find that statement quite funny :laugh:

[dizzinator53]

Have to go get my son a haircut before they close, I shall return later

Tell them: Business in the front, party in the back like always.

[slogriff]

he has been one of the worst safeties the past few years in allowing TD per pass defended, yards allowed, completions per passes defended... if not the worst

I'm no RW apologist and Im not saying these statements aren't correct. I would be interested in seeing these numbers if you had a link. Thanks.

[BigDFan5]

I'm no RW apologist and Im not saying these statements aren't correct. I would be interested in seeing these numbers if you had a link. Thanks.

excpect the wrath of bubba followed by a monkey picture for asking him to back up his assertions

[BigDFan5]

for someone whose constantly asks for links, and accuses others of not verifying their arguments

I find that statement quite funny :laugh:

He said "do research" I did its called watching the games. He is the one uninformed he didnt even watch the games :laugh:

[dizzinator53]

excpect the wrath of bubba followed by a monkey picture for asking him to back up his assertions

I let this slide a couple of times already, but Tr1 did the monkey picture, not Bubba... at least in this thread. It was funny. Come on you can't tell me you don't have a sense of humor.

[Hiro]

The Cowboys have a pretty good offensive line, but I think it's pretty clear that while both are close in ability, the Redskins offensive line edges them because of their skill and their experience level. Compare them individually:

Left Tackle: Chris Samuels vs. Flozell Adams.

This is no contest. Adams is a solid left tackle in the league, but Samuels is top 5, possibly even top 3. He's been a piller on the offensive line without a consistent partner at LG, often being asked to guard the elite rushers by himself and doing a hell of a job. Samuels without a doubt.

Left Guard: Pete Kendall vs. Kyle Kosier.

There's something to be said about a guard who was released by the Detroit Lions. He's done a decent job, but Kendall's been considered one of the top players at his position for years and even at the ripe old age of 35, he can hang up there with the best of them. I take Kendall.

Center: Casey Rabach vs. Andre Gurode

While this is a bit of push for me, both being very solid centers, it just simply sticks out to me that Gurode has a problem with snapping in the shotgun formation. I don't think he's a pro-bowler, but he's a solid center nonetheless. I'm also of the belief that Rabach is one of the most underrated offensive linemen in the league, and that his play that past few years deserved some recognition. Without him, our line noticeably declined in its performance. Therefore, I give this to Rabach.

Right Guard: Randy Thomas vs. Leonard Davis

A few years ago, Randy Thomas was a top 3, maybe even the best right guard in the game. While he's still a great guard, injuries have slowed him down and maybe some doubt his abilities as of now. Davis stepped in last year and played at a pro-bowl level. While I'm withholding total judgment until I see Davis play at this level in consecutive years and I see Thomas play, I say that Davis definitely has this spot won.

Right Tackle: Jon Jansen vs. Marc Colombo

This is kind of a similar situation with Thomas and Davis. While Jansen was considered one of the tops at his position, his injuries as of late have shed doubt on his abilities. Meanwhile, Colombo came from an injury plagued career in Chicago to have some good fortune in Dallas. Whether Jansen can be dominating again I'm not sure, but at this point I have to give this spot to Colombo.

So there you go, our left side is much better then yours, our center is slightly better then yours, and your right side performed better then guys who were out with injuries. Are you proud of yourselves?

[BigDFan5]

I let this slide a couple of times already, but Tr1 did the monkey picture, not Bubba... at least in this thread. It was funny. Come on you can't tell me you don't have a sense of humor.

buba has been doing the monkey picture for a couple years. Was funny at first but after seeing it 5 times a day for 500 days it lost its appeal, but its all he has so we let it slide

[bubba9497]

excpect the wrath of bubba followed by a monkey picture for asking him to back up his assertions

you haven't come close to seeing my wrath...... yet

RW numbers are documented in KC Joyner's metric books

in 06 RW gave up a TD every 6 passes attempted against him the worst in the league (TD every 3 passes completed against him), he allowed an avg of 11.9 YPA

last season he allowed five td's in limited action on passing downs

do a search you'll find it, though per usual stuff that is common knowledge and outdated must have link or it isn't true per BigD

but BigD can make statements he can't backup except with "I watched the games" and expects everyone to take his word as gospel :laugh:

about his 06 metrics:

The problem is that these two have not been able to cover up for the deficiencies of the Dallas safeties. Roy Williams, the Cowboys strong safety, has Pro Bowl caliber run-stuffing abilities but his coverage abilities always have been suspect. This year has been no different:

To put Williams' 11.9 yards per attempt into perspective, consider that it would have ranked him 33rd in the league in that metric in 2005. It is also two yards worse than Williams' 2005 season-ending total in that metric.

Roy Williams

Roy Williams 24 Att. 12 Comp 237 Yds 4 TD 3 Int 1 Penalties 48 Pen. Yds 11.9 YPA

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=2651651

BTW most say he was worse in 07 than 06 :doh: (trust me on this)

about him not knowing the defenses:

Cowboys CB Terence Newman said Cowboys SS Roy Williams "gets a deer-in-the-headlights type of reaction to some plays."

"Not everybody's going to have a perfect season. He had a bad season last year, as far as coverage," Newman continued. Williams has always said that concerns about his coverage were overblown, but having Newman call him out says otherwise

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/05/terence-newman-roy-williams-gets-deerinh.html

other concerns:

But let me ask you: When was the last time Williams made any plays to earn that type of accolade?

ESPN.com's Matt Mosley, a SportsDay alum who's been around the Cowboys for years, offered some interesting insights last week. He reports that the organization was divided on drafting Williams. Some questioned his ability to decipher offenses. Playing alongside Woodson disguised his weaknesses and allowed him to play to his strengths.

But Ken Hamlin had a Pro Bowl season, and it didn't make Williams look any better.

The problem goes deeper than just Woodson's absence. Even when he was a terror on the field, Williams lacked leadership skills. He'd vanish after bad games, forcing teammates to answer for him. He wouldn't take ownership in the secondary. He's worked out on his own this spring, away from teammates, drawing well-meaning concern from Ellis.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/052708dnsposherrington.2ec7d66.html

[bubba9497]

PS... now BigD work your debate defense magic

micro dissect my post and start arguing semantics, all the while not once actually ever discussing the points of the post :jerk:

[VCDefectors]

The Cowboys have a pretty good offensive line, but I think it's pretty clear that while both are close in ability, the Redskins offensive line edges them because of their skill and their experience level. Compare them individually:

Left Tackle: Chris Samuels vs. Flozell Adams.

This is no contest. Adams is a solid left tackle in the league, but Samuels is top 5, possibly even top 3. He's been a piller on the offensive line without a consistent partner at LG, often being asked to guard the elite rushers by himself and doing a hell of a job. Samuels without a doubt.

Left Guard: Pete Kendall vs. Kyle Kosier.

There's something to be said about a guard who was released by the Detroit Lions. He's done a decent job, but Kendall's been considered one of the top players at his position for years and even at the ripe old age of 35, he can hang up there with the best of them. I take Kendall.

Center: Casey Rabach vs. Andre Gurode

While this is a bit of push for me, both being very solid centers, it just simply sticks out to me that Gurode has a problem with snapping in the shotgun formation. I don't think he's a pro-bowler, but he's a solid center nonetheless. I'm also of the belief that Rabach is one of the most underrated offensive linemen in the league, and that his play that past few years deserved some recognition. Without him, our line noticeably declined in its performance. Therefore, I give this to Rabach.

Right Guard: Randy Thomas vs. Leonard Davis

A few years ago, Randy Thomas was a top 3, maybe even the best right guard in the game. While he's still a great guard, injuries have slowed him down and maybe some doubt his abilities as of now. Davis stepped in last year and played at a pro-bowl level. While I'm withholding total judgment until I see Davis play at this level in consecutive years and I see Thomas play, I say that Davis definitely has this spot won.

Right Tackle: Jon Jansen vs. Marc Colombo

This is kind of a similar situation with Thomas and Davis. While Jansen was considered one of the tops at his position, his injuries as of late have shed doubt on his abilities. Meanwhile, Colombo came from an injury plagued career in Chicago to have some good fortune in Dallas. Whether Jansen can be dominating again I'm not sure, but at this point I have to give this spot to Colombo.

So there you go, our left side is much better then yours, our center is slightly better then yours, and your right side performed better then guys who were out with injuries. Are you proud of yourselves?

That's a pretty fair assessment. I would choose Gurode over Rabach (the shotgun snap thing is being hugely overplayed). And I think if Jansen gets healthy, he has the edge over Columbo.

I'm going to have to pay more attention to Samuels, because I keep hearing Skins fans talk about him being top 3-5. I just didn't seen him play at an all-pro level last season. I thought he was more dominant in 2005 and 2006. I'm sure it's just me...but why didn't Samuels make the 2007 NFL All-Pro first or second team? Just curious.

[bubba9497]

but why didn't Samuels make the 2007 NFL All-Pro first or second team? Just curious.

why did RW make the pro bowl?

come on that isn't a real argument

[VCDefectors]

why did RW make the pro bowl?

come on that isn't a real argument

I wasn't arguing, I was sincerely asking a question.

[slogriff]

RW numbers are documented in KC Joyner's metric books....

about his 06 metrics:

The problem is that these two have not been able to cover up for the deficiencies of the Dallas safeties. Roy Williams, the Cowboys strong safety, has Pro Bowl caliber run-stuffing abilities but his coverage abilities always have been suspect. This year has been no different:

To put Williams' 11.9 yards per attempt into perspective, consider that it would have ranked him 33rd in the league in that metric in 2005. It is also two yards worse than Williams' 2005 season-ending total in that metric.

I don't have KC Joyner's data and appreciate your sharing of it.

When RW is ranked 33rd in YPA, who is included in that ranking? Just SS? or does it include all safeties? (I will assume it doesn't include CBs)

I ask because being ranked 33rd vs just other SS in a 32 team league is much different than being 33rd against 64+ (min. 2/team) safeties.

Being the 33rd ranked SS would be quite emabarrassing but 33rd rank of all safeties would at least be middle of the pack. Obviously not great for a player who is perennially voted to the PB but would be far better than how his coverage skills have been portrayed recently.