WP: JLC: Positional Review - RB/FB (Another JLC is a moron thread)

[CRobi21]

JLC is dead on.

Some of you are caught up in the cult of personality but with Portis the hype (and paycheck) is bigger than the production. 11 TDs and all of those yards come from running the ball so much, something most everyone here complained about the whole time Gibbs was here. Bottom line is that Portis is a good back but not a great one. He's not a guy that teams game plan for. I give him an A for effort and an A for blocking, but for running he gets a C+ to a B and pass catching he gets a C. Oh I almost forgot, he gets an A for running his mouth - too bad that's not always a good thing.

Unless he has a breakout season, the dude has got one more year here. Mark my words.

Why??? Are you Dan Snyder or something?

[dfbovey]

Bottom line is that Portis is a good back but not a great one. He's not a guy that teams game plan for.

Teams don't game plan for Portis? He's the first thing teams game plan for when they face our offense because the passing game has been so inconsistent. He is constantly facing 8 man fronts and run blitz schemes.

The one year that the line has been healthy since Portis has been here, He averaged 95 yards per game and we rode his performance into the playoffs.

[Spitfire71]

Not completely, Buford. I think that it's a testament to how good CP is that he had an above-average season with a depleted line as well as a system that really worked against him. Part of it was the line injuries, and part of it was the playcalling which was obviously designed to baby Jason Campbell and 'protect' him until he was ready, which, for Gibbs by default, isn't until you're about 27, no matter how good your upside is.

I think 2008 will be a big year for Clinton Portis. He's healthier than he's been in a long time, and he seems to be getting back some of that confidence he's had as a football player, which I think he lost to some degree in '06 with the injuries and the slow start in '07.

[redman]

^^^

Umm. 4th in the league with 11 TDs, pretty much the only stat that matters.

Wat?

Last I checked this was a team game. It's wonderful that Portis scored those TD's, but the fact is that the yards per carry and what we're seeing with our eyes is far more important than the TD stats.

What I saw with my eyes was a guy who had to play himself into shape and often looked like he lost his burst from early in his career. Clinton is fortunate because he has excellent vision and instincts, and so his style has adapted to a sort of read-and-scamper style reminiscent of Emmitt Smith. I'm concerned that's going to be as good as it gets for him from here on out, which is adequate but far from studly.

He will definitely benefit from improved line play too.

[CRobi21]

Wat?

The guy I quoted was posting CP's stats that were all pretty low. So I posted that he finished 4th in the NFL with 11 tds.

I'm with you. I was just saying that even with the depleted O-line, he was still able to find the endzone 11 times. I can't wait to see what he can do when the oline is completely healthy, and the entire O grasps this WCO.

[worstSeat]

Wat?

Last I checked this was a team game. It's wonderful that Portis scored those TD's, but the fact is that the yards per carry and what we're seeing with our eyes is far more important than the TD stats.

Good post. If anyone disagrees, let me introduce you to Gerald Riggs' stats from 1991.

games 16

started 0

attempts 78

yards 248

td 11

long 32

yds/attempt 3.2

yards/game 15.5

He was third on the list for yards.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1991.htm

Byner had 1048 yards, 5 TDs.

Ricky Ervins 680 yards, 3 TDs.

An individual's TDs don't matter. It is a team game. If anything, rushing TDs by themself show you can get 1-3 yards, not break off 30 and be a feature back.

I like Portis, appreciate his determination and leadership. Still, even with his team record yards, I don't feel the same confidence he'll get first downs with his version of the 3 yards and a cloud of dust as I did with Riggins, know what I mean?

[sideshow24]

Why has everyone turned on JLC? It reminds me of the Nunyo days. You blame him for not reporting anything, when there's nothing to report. He's just killing time like we are. Lay off.

So you kill time by bashing Gibbs Portis and Snyder? Snyder obviously, but Gibbs and Portis? Come on.

[JustAfan47]

I like Portis, appreciate his determination and leadership. Still, even with his team record yards, I don't feel the same confidence he'll get first downs with his version of the 3 yards and a cloud of dust as I did with Riggins, know what I mean?

No i dont know what you mean but i beleave Portis was 5th in the league at getting first downs...61 is the number

[theTruthTeller]

While 3.9 y/c is not great, there are a lot of good backs in that range. That doesn't worry me at all, considering the line problems. What worries me is the game-to-game inconsistency. In 2007 CP had 10 games with less than 75 yards (which is what I consider a good but not great game). His longest streak of games with more than 75 yards was 3. By contrast, in 2005, he had 12 games over 75, with a streak of 8 straight games over 75.

The major problem is the line. But the lack of a scary passing game hurts him as well. There are only three players on offense that are in the really good/elite category - Cooley, Samuels and CP. Teams definitely plan on taking CP out of the game and forcing JC to win the game. Maybe a switch to the WCO will change that.

[bedlamVR]

Wat?

Last I checked this was a team game. It's wonderful that Portis scored those TD's, but the fact is that the yards per carry and what we're seeing with our eyes is far more important than the TD stats.

What I saw with my eyes was a guy who had to play himself into shape and often looked like he lost his burst from early in his career. Clinton is fortunate because he has excellent vision and instincts, and so his style has adapted to a sort of read-and-scamper style reminiscent of Emmitt Smith. I'm concerned that's going to be as good as it gets for him from here on out, which is adequate but far from studly.

He will definitely benefit from improved line play too.

I am starting to think maybe opening an opticians in DC would be a great thing what with people saying things like Todd Collins came in and played great and this about Portis ...

...did you not see anything ...anything at all wrong with the offensive line?

[Mania]

I used to like JLC as well, but as of late he has really become a douchebag. He has nothing to report, so he has to go off on the skins.

[redman]

So you kill time by bashing Gibbs Portis and Snyder? Snyder obviously, but Gibbs and Portis? Come on.

Bashing? You have some pretty thin skin to call that bashing. Do you know that his characterization of Portis' relationship with Gibbs and Snyder as reported by JLC, and other players' impression of that relationship, is wrong?

Based upon what I know about Gibbs dating back to Riggins, that sounds VERY plausible.

[redman]

I am starting to think maybe opening an opticians in DC would be a great thing what with people saying things like Todd Collins came in and played great and this about Portis ...

...did you not see anything ...anything at all wrong with the offensive line?

When you get your new prescription, check out the last line of my post.

[Thoth]

I love it--more hard hitting journalism that tells it like it is rather than sugar coating it.

Portis was useless for almost half the season last year. We need a coach that is tougher with Portis, rather than being his buddy.

Keep 'em coming, JLC.

[turbodiesel#44]

I love it--more hard hitting journalism that tells it like it is rather than sugar coating it.

Portis was useless for almost half the season last year. We need a coach that is tougher with Portis, rather than being his buddy.

Keep 'em coming, JLC.

I agree somewhat, and was angry with both CP and JG about the situation in camp last year.

But I did make an observation that CP seemed fresher and more effective in the last few games of last season than in several prior years. At least when he wasn't sent off guard into the box play after play behind a broken line. I did consciously wonder if JG's treatment might have helped CP stretch it out a little further last year. I'm just not sure.

In any case, It didn't work with Lloyd.

[21Knock_U_Out]

That's funny 6th in the league in 2007 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=EFD339320DC2A865CB636081373E158E?season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-n=1

5th in the league in 2005 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2005&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Find

8th in the league in 2004 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=8FB152972129ED6B221604F530366BDC?archive=true&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2004&qualified=true&Submit=Find&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1

so you are right the numbers dont lie and he has been a top 10 back for the skins 3 of the 4 years he has been here:laugh:

Here is the link for his yds in 2005. He was actually #4.So to all of you, yes he is an elite running back.http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=EDE9AA94720C0FCC7DDFA4733A884604?archive=true&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2005&qualified=true&Submit=Find&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1

[Gerald362]

those clips are the CP I remember seeing. I dont remember seeing him give up on plays, I dont remember him not getting positive yards when he had a hole to run to. Granted, he likes to hear himself talk, but it is usually entertaining, and he works to back up what he says. Is he elite? Who knows with the run schemes we have been running the past few years, but he can still run, he can still cut, and he would block when the OL decided to move out of the way. I want players like that on my team.

[Island Boy]

I agree that CP is the man. But I have always wanted to see Rock get more touches on offense.

[Pedro]

CP plays like a fan would if they had the talent. He does what he can to help the team win, and he does it well.

In end of season games when it hurts to get out of bed.

For a team that hasn't shown anyone we can beat them in the air, making it open season on our RB.

And people question him?

We're bringing along a young QB and we have a tough, committed and talented RB who also happens to be **** hot at picking up blitzes and laying the man out. Clinton Portis is the right man in the right place at the right time as far as the Washington Redskins is concerned, and I appreciate what he brings to this franchise.

JMO

[Uno Mas]

No he's not. TJ Duckett was a bigger threat than he was last year.

His season long was 32 yards (48th in the league). Dookie Davenport had a 45 yard run. Big, slow TJ Duckett had a 53 yard run.

Portis had 0 carries over 40 yards and only 3 for over 20. Big slow TJ Duckett had 1 carry for over 40 yards and 3 others for over 20. And he carried the ball only 65 times (compared to Portis' 325 carries).

Portis averaged a measley 3.9 yards per carry. That's good enough for 68th in the league.

He averaged only 78.9 yards per game.

Portis is not a big time threat at all.

I swear some of y'all see a different player than I do.

When I watch Portis, I see a guy who gets 3 yards every carry, and then goes down.

Yeah, he's flashy. Yeah, he blocks great.

But y'all are smoking crack if you think he is a home run threat.

If you look at his number since we came to the Redskins, he has not been a top 10 back.

The numbers do not lie.

__________________

Hate on JLC all you want. But if you think what he is saying is not based in reality, than you are the one that is confused--not him.

You know what, I tend to agree with you. He leaves a lot of plays on the field as far as opportunities to break really big gains. I agree that the majority of our fan base have him overrated as a pure runner. But the thing that keeps me quiet on my opinion of Portis is everything else he does, particularly when he doesnt have the ball. I hate his lame acts in the media, but that has nothing to do with my opinion. He's just not an elite runner, IMO, but he is certainly a team player and more than makes up for the lack of home runs with his blocking. Thats my :2cents: .

Edit: Oh and, for the record, I think JLC is a sausage smoking tool who most of the time doesnt have a clue. Im afraid though, he's not all wrong this time!