Why do people think that GWB is a dim bulb?

[SPare]

I have a number of theories about why there are so many people who think that your president is a "moron".

I think that there are two inescapable parts to it:

1. He talks simply. He uses simple words that just about everybody can understand.

but, more importantly,

2. He challenges conventional wisdom. Most people just take for granted the majority of their views on topics. They didn't reason their way into them, it's just what "thinking" people agree is true. There's a lot of things that he's doing, and that he believes that radically differ from conventional wisdom. Since he doesn't agree with it, people automatically assume that he's dumb because when presented with the same set of facts that he comes to a different conclusion.

In many ways, I think that he is one of the most effective presidents of your country in a long time (yes, better than Reagan)

So, I put it out to the floor for response.

Out of interest, I think that Clinton was one of the smartest men to be president, but I also think that it was largely wasted, since he spent so much time involved in "mental masturbation"... deliberations that are edifying, but ultimately fruitless.

[sashae]

Being well spoken does not make you a great leader... look at Clinton and Jesse Jackson (who I think is the biggest fraud in the public eye right now...)

It's lovely to hear Jackson's speeches, but I wouldn't want him running the country. A certain segment of the political population can't believe that a guy who ran a baseball team can be a good President when the previous President was a Rhodes Scholar.

Look at how far it got him.

-s

[fuji869]

Unfortunately the news media does not like him and because of that he is made to look like an idiot. Just like Dan Quayle during his G W's fathers administration.

When the news media likes you, you have it made, just ask Mr. William Jefferson Clinton!

This was shown when Clinton got caught messing around, the media had the attitude of "That's his personal life" but when W's two daughters were caught under aged drinking all of a sudden the cry was "When your father is the President of the United States and you live live you life in a fish bowl, you need to behave and stay out of trouble"

I am sure Chelsey Clinton did not take a single sip of alcohol until she was 21 while at Stanford University.

[Jagsbch]

Here's an arguement. There are so many...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You asked...

Addiction, Brain Damage and the President

"Dry Drunk" Syndrome and

George W. Bush

by KATHERINE van WORMER

Ordinarily I would not use this term. But when I came across the article "Dry Drunk" - - Is Bush Making a Cry for Help? in American Politics Journal by Alan Bisbort, I was ready to concede, in the case of George W. Bush, the phrase may be quite apt.

Dry drunk is a slang term used by members and supporters of Alcoholics Anonymous and substance abuse counselors to describe the recovering alcoholic who is no longer drinking, one who is dry, but whose thinking is clouded. Such an individual is said to be dry but not truly sober. Such an individual tends to go to extremes.

It was when I started noticing the extreme language that colored President Bush's speeches that I began to wonder. First there were the terms-- "crusade" and "infinite justice" that were later withdrawn. Next came "evil doers," "axis of evil," and "regime change", terms that have almost become clichés in the mass media. Something about the polarized thinking and the obsessive repetition reminded me of many of the recovering alcoholics/addicts I had treated. (A point worth noting is that because of the connection between addiction and "stinking thinking," relapse prevention usually consists of work in the cognitive area). Having worked with recovering alcoholics for years, I flinched at the single-mindedness and ego- and ethnocentricity in the President's speeches. (My husband likened his phraseology to the gardener character played by Peter Sellers in the movie, Being There). Since words are the tools, the representations, of thought, I wondered what Bush's choice of words said about where he was coming from. Or where we would be going.

First, in this essay, we will look at the characteristics of the so-called "dry drunk;" then we will see if they apply to this individual, our president; and then we will review his drinking history for the record. What is the dry drunk syndrome? "Dry drunk" traits consist of:

Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity

Grandiose behavior

A rigid, judgmental outlook

Impatience

Childish behavior

Irresponsible behavior

Irrational rationalization

Projection

Overreaction

Clearly, George W. Bush has all these traits except exaggerated self importance. He may be pompous, especially with regard to international dealings, but his actual importance hardly can be exaggerated. His power, in fact, is such that if he collapses into paranoia, a large part of the world will collapse with him. Unfortunately, there are some indications of paranoia in statements such as the following: "We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the United States and our allies and friends." The trait of projection is evidenced here as well, projection of the fact that we are ready to attack onto another nation which may not be so inclined.

Bush's rigid, judgmental outlook comes across in virtually all his speeches. To fight evil, Bush is ready to take on the world, in almost a Biblical sense. Consider his statement with reference to Israel: "Look my job isn't to try to nuance. I think moral clarity is important... this is evil versus good."

Bush's tendency to dichotomize reality is not on the Internet list above, but it should be, as this tendency to polarize is symptomatic of the classic addictive thinking pattern. I describe this thinking distortion in Addiction Treatment: A Strengths Perspective as either/or reasoning-- "either you are with us or against us." Oddly, Bush used those very words in his dealings with other nations. All-or-nothing thinking is a related mode of thinking commonly found in newly recovering alcoholics/addicts. Such a worldview traps people in a pattern of destructive behavior.

Obsessive thought patterns are also pronounced in persons prone to addiction. There are organic reasons for this due to brain chemistry irregularities; messages in one part of the brain become stuck there. This leads to maddening repetition of thoughts. President Bush seems unduly focused on getting revenge on Saddam Hussein ("he tried to kill my Dad") leading the country and the world into war, accordingly.

Grandiosity enters the picture as well. What Bush is proposing to Congress is not the right to attack on one country but a total shift in military policy: America would now have the right to take military action before the adversary even has the capacity to attack. This is in violation, of course, of international law as well as national precedent. How to explain this grandiose request? Jane Bryant Quinn provides the most commonly offered explanation in a recent Newsweek editorial, "Iraq: It's the Oil, Stupid." Many other opponents of the Bush doctrine similarly seek a rational motive behind the obsession over first, the war on terror and now, Iraq. I believe the explanation goes deeper than oil, that Bush's logic is being given too much credit; I believe his obsession is far more visceral.

On this very day, a peace protestor in Portland held up the sign, "Drunk on Power." This, I believe, is closer to the truth. The drive for power can be an unquenchable thirst, addictive in itself. Senator William Fulbright, in his popular bestseller of the 1960s, The Arrogance of Power, masterfully described the essence of power-hungry politics as the pursuit of power; this he conceived as an end in itself. "The causes and consequences of war may have more to do with pathology than with politics," he wrote, "more to do with irrational pressures of pride and pain than with rational calculation of advantage and profit."

Another "dry drunk" trait is impatience. Bush is far from a patient man: "If we wait for threats to fully materialize," he said in a speech he gave at West Point, "we will have waited too long." Significantly, Bush only waited for the United Nations and for Congress to take up the matter of Iraq's disarmament with extreme reluctance.

Alan Bisbort argues that Bush possesses the characteristics of the "dry drunk" in terms of: his incoherence while speaking away from the script; his irritability with anyone (for example, Germany's Schröder) who dares disagree with him; and his dangerous obsessing about only one thing (Iraq) to the exclusion of all other things.

In short, George W. Bush seems to possess the traits characteristic of addictive persons who still have the thought patterns that accompany substance abuse. If we consult the latest scientific findings, we will discover that scientists can now observe changes that occur in the brain as a result of heavy alcohol and other drug abuse. Some of these changes may be permanent. Except in extreme cases, however, these cognitive impairments would not be obvious to most observers.

To reach any conclusions we need of course to know Bush's personal history relevant to drinking/drug use. To this end I consulted several biographies. Yes, there was much drunkenness, years of binge drinking starting in college, at least one conviction for DUI in 1976 in Maine, and one arrest before that for a drunken episode involving theft of a Christmas wreath. According to J.D. Hatfield's book, Fortunate Son, Bush later explained:

"[A]lcohol began to compete with my energies....I'd lose focus." Although he once said he couldn't remember a day he hadn't had a drink, he added that he didn't believe he was "clinically alcoholic." Even his father, who had known for years that his son had a serious drinking problem, publicly proclaimed: "He was never an alcoholic. It's just he knows he can't hold his liquor."

Bush drank heavily for over 20 years until he made the decision to abstain at age 40. About this time he became a "born again Christian," going as usual from one extreme to the other. During an Oprah interview, Bush acknowledged that his wife had told him he needed to think about what he was doing. When asked in another interview about his reported drug use, he answered honestly, "I'm not going to talk about what I did 20 to 30 years ago."

That there might be a tendency toward addiction in Bush's family is indicated in the recent arrests or criticism of his daughters for underage drinking and his niece for cocaine possession. Bush, of course, deserves credit for his realization that he can't drink moderately, and his decision today to abstain. The fact that he doesn't drink moderately, may be suggestive of an inability to handle alcohol. In any case, Bush has clearly gotten his life in order and is in good physical condition, careful to exercise and rest when he needs to do so. The fact that some residual effects from his earlier substance abuse, however slight, might cloud the U.S. President's thinking and judgment is frightening, however, in the context of the current global crisis.

One final consideration that might come into play in the foreign policy realm relates to Bush's history relevant to his father. The Bush biography reveals the story of a boy named for his father, sent to the exclusive private school in the East where his father's reputation as star athlete and later war hero were still remembered. The younger George's achievements were dwarfed in the school's memory of his father. Athletically he could not achieve his father's laurels, being smaller and perhaps less strong. His drinking bouts and lack of intellectual gifts held him back as well. He was popular and well liked, however. His military record was mediocre as compared to his father's as well. Bush entered the Texas National Guard. What he did there remains largely a mystery. There are reports of a lot of barhopping during this period. It would be only natural that Bush would want to prove himself today, that he would feel somewhat uncomfortable following, as before, in his father's footsteps. I mention these things because when you follow his speeches, Bush seems bent on a personal crusade. One motive is to avenge his father. Another seems to be to prove himself to his father. In fact, Bush seems to be trying somehow to achieve what his father failed to do - - to finish the job of the Gulf War, to get the "evildoer" Saddam.

To summarize, George W. Bush manifests all the classic patterns of what alcoholics in recovery call "the dry drunk." His behavior is consistent with barely noticeable but meaningful brain damage brought on by years of heavy drinking and possible cocaine use. All the classic patterns of addictive thinking that are spelled out in my book are here:

the tendency to go to extremes (leading America into a massive 100 billion dollar strike-first war);

a "kill or be killed mentality;" the tunnel vision;

"I" as opposed to "we" thinking;

the black and white polarized thought processes (good versus evil, all or nothing thinking).

His drive to finish his father's battles is of no small significance, psychologically.

If the public (and politicians) could only see what Fulbright noted as the pathology in the politics. One day, sadly, they will.

Katherine van Wormer is a Professor of Social Work at the University of Northern Iowa Co-author of Addiction Treatment: A Strengths Perspective (2002). She can be reached at: Katherine.VanWormer@uni.edu

[Tarhog]

So Jags...are you just posting this tripe for the attention, or do you buy into this utter bull$hit? Enquiring minds want to know? Stupid is as stupid does.

[Brave]

I don't know how many people REALLY believe Bush is dim. My guess is that's a joke that has stuck due to his struggle to speak well ... which he has improved on since taking office.

During the campaigning Bush said so many silly, rediculous things it DID become funny. He just couldn't regularly put into words what he wanted to convey. I have a list of his quotes and they are hilarious. They do make him seem dumb. I do not belive him to be dumb, but you read enough of these quotes and you can see where all this came from.

Since taking office, someone has been working VERY hard with Bush to improve his public speaking. I noticed very early in his term that he began dividing almost every sentence into two distinct parts with a significant pause in the middle. One thought at a time. Quick and simple and not very much room to let fly with something wrong.

As a result, his speeches are kind of choppy: Half a sentence - pause - half a sentence - pause. The results, however, are a lot better than having the President constantly giving material to the comics of the world.

[Jagsbch]

Originally posted by Tarhog

So Jags...are you just posting this tripe for the attention, or do you buy into this utter bull$hit? Enquiring minds want to know? Stupid is as stupid does.

Tarhog,

To be honest, no.

But it is a provocative take on other peoples views. Like I said before I try and come at issues from as many angles as I can. Someone asked why. This is one of the best answers out there among others. People are entitled to their opinions, and this is just one among the raindrops in the storm of dissension.

[gbear]

I think there are atleast two things that lead to the perception of him as not too bright. The first was how his early campaign was set up. He went months without saying anything of substance on any subject. He seemed to have NO oppinions. That was by design, and it worked. That being said, the end result was that he appeared less bright.

THinking back on Dems that I have voted for, I've voted for them primarily because they seemed bright even if I didn't always agree with them. A perfect example of this is Paul Tsongas. His econ writings were very well articulated, and he clearly had oppinions. That's a stark contrast. Again, it was by design in the Bush campaign because how can you disagree with a guy with no oppinions. Bush dumbed down the debate...now he's stuck with the perception of being dumb.

The second factor that I can't help but think contributes to his perception of dumb is his lack of ability to see 2 sides to anything. This really kills him internationally, and believe it or not some of that oppinion leaks back over here. The insistance on a black and white world where our view is automatically the white comes across as somebody not able to look at things from different angles. I blaim this one on his current speach writers, though we'll probably never know how much is him and how much is them. A mono-view outlook on the world is not something most of us would associate with intelligence when it comes to how we perceive our friends. Why should it be different with Bush?

[AdmiralWaugh]

I don't think Bush is a smart person at all. But I think that his own conventional wisdom, honed from years exposed to politics and following in his father's footsteps, have served him pretty well. I will say this for W, he reads books. That's more than most men his age... but the elite love to look down on him as he's a) a Republican, speaks in vernacular like you said, etc...

Condi Rice *is* a smart person. I wish she were President, honestly. She explains basically all of Bush's Int'l Relations policies a million times better than Bush ever could -- the opposite, I'd say, of Reagan and his NSA...

Bottom line is that he does have competent people around him. Was Clinton a waste? Absolutely. He was a lame duck President through and through, a product of never willing to go far for something he might have believed in. Kosovo, maybe. And thank goodness we did that. I think he'd do a lot of things differently now if he had the chance.

[Tarhog]

Just wondering Jags...

And Brave is correct, no one will ever mistake GWB for William F. Buckley or Peggy Noonan. I would just like to see more people push forward and argue their political positions on the merits, not by trying to personally denigrate their opponent. Thats what this nonsense (and similiar nonsense like waiting until the night before the election to reveal some had a DUI a decade ago) is all about. I'll bet you won't find any articles discussing Ted Kennedy or Tip O'Neill and 'Dry Drunk Syndrome'. But if you did, I'd blast them for the same reason I'm blasting this. Pure political diatribe and the 'politics of personal destruction'.

[fansince62]

the one thing Bush isn't being given his due for is forcing the agenda...whatever else might be said...there is a breathtaking array of items on the social plate that he is moving forward with.

and an interesting sidelight...this has had the salutary side effect of drawing out the opposition as well: their thought processes, inconsistencies, disingenuousness, fabrications and lack of intellectual depth is also receiving due attention.......don't anyone kid themselves....there's more than enough stupidity to go around......

as a side note.....during my professional career....I have often come across people who have a deep understanding of the how the links sum to a whole.....but are terrible at communicating those constructs...

either way....Clinton was about Clinton pure and simple........a little more depth in the psychological analysis of this "leader' might lead one to reconsider whether he was a "dry twit".....

[codeorama]

This is why he is viewed as a moron:

"Don't misunderestimate George Bush"

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country." -George W. Bush, Jr.

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -George W. Bush, Jr.

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Welcome to Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit...Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 8/11/94

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/15/95

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 5/22/98

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 12/6/93

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 11/30/96

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"The future will be better tomorrow." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/21/97

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Public speaking is very easy." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to reporters in 10/9

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican" -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr

"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in LA, my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame." -George W. Bush, Jr.

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 5/20/96

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/22/97

"For NASA, space is still a high priority." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/5/93

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/18/95

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that George Bush may or may not make." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"[it's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

[codeorama]

double post... sorry.

[Golgo-13]

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican" -Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

[fansince62]

here's a thought....

if a democrat wins the next election....he/she is already doomed to failure......at least 45% to 50% of the population is watching how this is playing out out and they will, to varying degrees, do everything to undermine and arrest the agenda of a democratic "regime"....the entrenched lines are hardening in this country as we speak and post.......this is a spiral that started years ago and is intensifiing......

[codeorama]

Originally posted by fuji869

Unfortunately the news media does not like him and because of that he is made to look like an idiot. Just like Dan Quayle during his G W's fathers administration.

When the news media likes you, you have it made, just ask Mr. William Jefferson Clinton!

This was shown when Clinton got caught messing around, the media had the attitude of "That's his personal life" but when W's two daughters were caught under aged drinking all of a sudden the cry was "When your father is the President of the United States and you live live you life in a fish bowl, you need to behave and stay out of trouble"

I am sure Chelsey Clinton did not take a single sip of alcohol until she was 21 while at Stanford University.

I would say that the Media killed Clinton... If they were "on his side" so to speak, then they would have never covered the story to begin with...

Also, Al Gore's daughters had problems with alcohol and it was well documented. It is possible that Chelsea never got caught if she actually did do something.

The media coverage that Gore's daughters got and that Bush's got was comparable...

[codeorama]

Originally posted by Brave

I don't know how many people REALLY believe Bush is dim. My guess is that's a joke that has stuck due to his struggle to speak well ... which he has improved on since taking office.

During the campaigning Bush said so many silly, rediculous things it DID become funny. He just couldn't regularly put into words what he wanted to convey. I have a list of his quotes and they are hilarious. They do make him seem dumb. I do not belive him to be dumb, but you read enough of these quotes and you can see where all this came from.

Since taking office, someone has been working VERY hard with Bush to improve his public speaking. I noticed very early in his term that he began dividing almost every sentence into two distinct parts with a significant pause in the middle. One thought at a time. Quick and simple and not very much room to let fly with something wrong.

As a result, his speeches are kind of choppy: Half a sentence - pause - half a sentence - pause. The results, however, are a lot better than having the President constantly giving material to the comics of the world.

Good post, you did and excellent job at explaining.

[TheKurp]

One thing thing you've got to give GWB props on is his knowledge of baseball.

I'm sure everything he's said, which may cause one to pause and scratch their head, is simply in tribute to Yogi Berra.

"It ain't over 'til it's over "

"Never answer an anonymous letter"

" I usually take a two hour nap from one to four"

" It's deja vu all over again"

" When you come to a fork in the road....Take it "

" I didn't really say everything I said "

" You can observe a lot by watching "

When asked what time is was......" you mean now?"

At Yogi Berra day in St Louis 1947 " I want to thank you for making this day necessary"

" If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be "

Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "

" If the people don't want to come out to the ballpark, nobody's going to stop them "

On why NY lost the 1960 series to Pittsburgh " We made too many wrong mistakes"

" The future ain't what it used to be "

" It gets late early out here"

[codeorama]

Originally posted by Tarhog

Just wondering Jags...

I would just like to see more people push forward and argue their political positions on the merits, not by trying to personally denigrate their opponent.

I couldn't have said it better...

:notworthy

[The Evil Genius]

Yeah that baseball leadership under Bush was great. While with the Rangers, rather than building their own park - he and the other Rangers partners forced the public to pay for the Park at Arlington or else (they threatened to move).

Real good leadership there.

[G-Town]

I like the "Texas Hot Rod" I like fact he dont take $hit from anyone.

[fansince62]

boy...that gambit sure has never been played before.....

[The Evil Genius]

Originally posted by fansince62

boy...that gambit sure has never been played before.....

Not sure if you are replying to me or not.

But if you are, can you please tell me why some owners pay for their parks outright and some rely on the public dime through strongarm tactics?

Even if its been done a hundred times before, it still doesnt make it an acceptable tactic.

Surely we can agree on that?

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by fansince62

here's a thought....

if a democrat wins the next election....he/she is already doomed to failure......at least 45% to 50% of the population is watching how this is playing out out and they will, to varying degrees, do everything to undermine and arrest the agenda of a democratic "regime"....the entrenched lines are hardening in this country as we speak and post.......this is a spiral that started years ago and is intensifiing......

I do'nt know if the Dems are "doomed". Usually these things swing like a pendulum.

But I do agree that we are in a spiral "that started years ago and is intensifiing". Without a strong leader that can appeal to both sides and heal the wounds I fear that the self distruction of this country has begun. People like Jagsbch who grasp at conspiricy theorys; the nuts who think Bush is a "Hitler". Face it folks a large portion of the voting public is dead from the neck up. These people can only steer this ship of democracy around in circles at best. At worst, they are easily swayed by stupid arguments presented by charismatic, well spoken people.

The animosity that is building between the partys is making the players on both sides (especially the Dems) act more in the interest of their party, rather than the best interest of the country.

[SPare]

As a follow up, the other main difference between he and Clinton, is that you can really see that Bush and his team is working strategically. Doing what may not be right for the short term, but what will ultimately be for the best.

Clinton, on the other hand seemed to have no strategy. He was superb tactically, and was able to find solutions to any of his problems, but you'll notice that most of them came back to bite him later on.

The public doesn't typically understand things in a strategic context. They're interested in what's happening now.

Just another reason that some may see W as dumb.