Sarge Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Man, if ever there was an ass that needed kicking http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-03-11/article/29447 In the recent political battle around the Marine recruiting station in Berkeley there has been much confusion around the concept or slogan of “supporting the troops,” but opposing the unjust wars of the Bush regime. Many who oppose the Bush regime wars also say they “support the troops.” Let me say it straight out—I do not support the troops and neither should you. It is objectively impossible to support the troops of the imperialist military forces of the U.S. and at the same time oppose the wars in which they fight. The United States has over 700 military bases or sites located in over 130 foreign countries. The hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in these countries are not there to preserve or foster freedom and democracy as the Bush regime would like to claim, but to maintain U.S. imperialist domination of the world. The United States now spends more on its military than all the other nations of the world combined. If you “support the troops” in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the other more than 100 countries in which they are located, you also objectively support U.S. hegemony in the world. I believe that the vast majority of people who say they support the troops do not wish to support U.S. imperialism, but that is what they are really doing by putting forth the slogan of “support the troops.” We need to oppose the recruitment of men and women into the military. We need to support resisters within the military who have realized what they are doing and now choose to resist the role of the U.S. military. This includes people such as Lt. Ehren Watada who refused to deploy to Iraq. Watada stated, “Never did I imagine my president would lie to go to war, condone torture, spy on Americans…” He was the first officer to refuse to go to Iraq and he was court-martialed. Another resister is Camilo Mejia. In 2004 Sergeant Mejia was sentenced to one year in prison when he was court-martialed for refusing to assist the military in Iraq. Mejia said, “I am only a regular person that got tired of being afraid to follow his own conscience. For far too long I allowed others to direct my actions even when I knew that they were wrong....” We need to expose that those in the U.S. military are trained to be part of a “killing machine.” While not every member of the military is an individual murderer, they are all part of a system that commits war crimes, including aggressive wars, massacres, rape, and other crimes against humanity, all in the service of U.S. imperialism. The bottom line is that even if these people are relatives or friends, you can not support the troops without also supporting the objective role that these troops play in the imperialist system. United States troops are acting as destructive and murderous forces of invasion and occupation. The people of Iraq and Afghanistan see this on a daily basis. Hundreds of thousands have died as a direct result of the U.S. invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Millions are either internal or external refugees. Tens of thousands have been detained in prisons, with thousands of these tortured and scores murdered. Haditha, Iraq where 24 Iraqis were massacred is just the best known of the massacres. Women and children are routinely described as “collateral damage” by military spokespersons when they are murdered in military operations. “Support for the troops” has become political cover to support the wars. In Congress, many of those who claim they oppose the wars, use “support of the troops” to vote for hundreds of millions of dollars to fund the wars. These politicians are political opportunists, but there are also people who genuinely oppose the war, but who also say “I support the troops.” But to decide whether U.S. troops deserve support you must analyze what they actually do in countries occupied by the U.S. The wars these troops are engaged in have the goal of maintaining and extending U.S. hegemony throughout the world. They are unjust, illegal, and immoral wars. Can you support the troops in these wars? Why is this any different from a German in World War II saying, “I oppose the wars launched by Hitler, but I support the troops of the German army which are making these wars possible.” When the Marines in Haditha massacred Iraqis, including women and children, would it have been correct to say I supported the Marines who killed those people, but not the massacre? This would be ridiculous, but no more so than supporting the troops engaged in the war that made the Haditha massacre possible in the first place. In 1933 Marine Major General Smedley Butler clarified the role of the U.S. military. He stated, “War is just a racket…It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses…I spent 33 years and four months in active military service as a member of this country’s most agile military force, the Marine Corps…In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism...” Like Butler, Watada, and Mejia, those in the military today must take responsibility for what the military does. Just like the German soldiers of World War 2 could not hide behind the “I was just following orders” excuse, military personnel today also can not hide behind it. Those of us who oppose the unjust wars of the Bush regime must struggle with those in the military and those that support them to expose what role the troops objectively play. Supporting the troops engaged in making war against other nations and people on behalf of U.S. imperialism is not acceptable. Oakland resident Kenneth J. Theisen is an organizer with the World Can’t Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 But didn't you serve to protect his freedom to write this? Now, he should have his ass kicked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 But didn't you serve to protect his freedom to write this? Now, he should have his ass kicked? legal freedom, dum-dum. doesn't mean he can't wish non-governmentally induced harm on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 But didn't you serve to protect his freedom to write this? Now, he should have his ass kicked? If I had my choice, I'd exclude this piece of ungrateful commie **** from all the blood, sweat and tears I put out over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEArmchairQB Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Nothing surprises me anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 If I had my choice, I'd exclude this piece of ungrateful commie **** from all the blood, sweat and tears I put out over the years I can understand that. But you don't have that choice. You protect all citizens, grateful or not. The best way to combat people like Theisan is with reason. With that in mind, it's no coincidence that Theisan and those that shares his views are on the political fringes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Personally I prefer those that speak their mind plainly(even if I consider them a idiot) to those that mouth support,but plainly do not. While I disagree with his reasoning,I applaud his taking a stand.(a ass kicking might be fun though ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 If I had my choice, I'd exclude this piece of ungrateful commie **** from all the blood, sweat and tears I put out over the years Dude, relax. You did your job and got paid. Now come down off the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Dude, relax. You did your job and got paid. Now come down off the cross. You can never relax with communists in your midst. Why do you think I'm so wired up here? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I support US imperialism. And the troops. And i also hate pretty much anyone that uses the word "hegemony." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Where he has it wrong is that the military does as it is told. It's not like those in the military choose to be in 130 countries. They can choose overseas assignments but that's a perk, to see the world. This guy obviously doesn't understand how policy is made and how the military works. The men and women in our military volunteered to do so to protect the rights of all of us and to make sure American interest is seen through. To not support them is treason in my opinion. Now, you can question the policy and what American interest is, but to not support the men and women that protect our very own freedoms and luxurious life is futile. He acts as if by not supporting the troops and keeping them from volunteering, there wouldn't be any troops. :doh: There certainly wouldn't be any volunteers but we'd still have troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 This guy obviously doesn't understand how policy is made and how the military works. The men and women in our military volunteered to do so to protect the rights of all of us and to make sure American interest is seen through. Volunteer-1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking. 2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay. It's a job with pay. That's why people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Volunteer-1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking.2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay. It's a job with pay. That's why people do it. Have you ever seen a military pay scale? People don't join the military to get paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayH81 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I know Sarge will probably fall out when he reads me saying this, but... "You can indeed support the troops, and not support their mission or specific parts of their mission." Why do I say this? Because with very few exceptions, once a service member signs on the dotted line, they have no option (other than violating their oaths) on what they are ordered to do. So while I decry the idiotic and ill advised venture into Iraq, and also may decry those individuals in uniform who violate the UCMJ, Geneva Conventions and other applicable laws/regulations (when and as they do), the generic Joe/Jane service member is not to blame for the decision to go. I also support their families, who bear a lot of the brunt of their service, before and after they return. Yes, I am a veteran, and no I didn't serve in a battle zone, but I still didn't like, enjoy or appreciate some of our missions, or the decisions of my chain of command at all times. In summation, this original posted material author is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Have you ever seen a military pay scale?People don't join the military to get paid They most certainly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 They most certainly do. Look at E-1 under 2 years That $1500 is a month Don't tell me people join for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Because with very few exceptions, once a service member signs on the dotted line, they have no option (other than violating their oaths) on what they are ordered to do. What's odd, though, is that they're also expected to disobey orders that violate US laws and can be prosecuted if they do what they're ordered to do, while, too often, those that do the ordering get off free and clear, i.e. My Lai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wskin44 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Another load of b.s. :pooh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The premiss of this article is nonsense. You can support the troops and oppose a preemptive war all at the same time. A preemptive war like the one in Iraq is a political issue, citizens of a nation are tasked with weighing on politics. Troops do not, and should not, have the choice of what wars to fight and which to pass on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Look at E-1 under 2 yearsThat $1500 is a month Don't tell me people join for that For most who enlist, that is significantly more than they could earn in the real world, particularly when you consider the other financial benefits offered to personnel i.e. housing, health care, discount goods and services, tuition, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I agree with him.. It is objectively impossible to support the troops of the imperialist military forces of the U.S. and at the same time oppose the wars in which they fight. Its like being for the death penalty but pro-life. Its a fine line you walk my friend and you have to talk yourself into it quite often to make sure it sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Have you ever seen a military pay scale?People don't join the military to get paid They sure as hell do.. not to mention bonuses and college money or a needed background to get into the career they want like law enforcement for example. It's not PC to talk about people that suck it up and join for personal gain however. They all do it out of an amazing love of country, and anyone that says otherwise deserves to be hated. I know a lot of people that joined. I know one that did it out of a sense of duty. Having said that many gain that sense of patriotism and duty while in the armed forces. The reasons for joining are many but the reasons for staying are often moving and inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 It is objectively impossible to support the troops of the imperialist military forces of the U.S. and at the same time oppose the wars in which they fight. I do agree with this statement. The rest of his tripe is what I would expect from berkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 For most who enlist, that is significantly more than they could earn in the real world, particularly when you consider the other financial benefits offered to personnel i.e. housing, health care, discount goods and services, tuition, etc. Most people in the "Real World" don't get sent to Turd World countries and get shot at either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 You can never relax with communists in your midst. Why do you think I'm so wired up here? :laugh: maaaaaaaaaaaang your panties are way to tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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