You guys wanted this, now you got it!!

[BG]

While our hand was forced and we don't have a choice other than to keep our $ for the draft, it is a welcome sight to see us look past what is the worst FA crop ever and focus on the draft.

[elkabong82]

I did not make up these targets while sitting on the ****ter. We've heard for the past few months that those players would be in our sights. Please dont pretend like you too did not think of Berrian, Wilford, Smith, etc in burgundy and gold. I also dont see how people can gauge what a person's worth is. Wilford played on a team with mediocre QBs, imagine what he and his 6'4" frame could do with a guy like JC who airs it out. Justin Smith was one of the top DEs during his first few seasons in the league(had a down one last year). Is he not better then Daniels? I dont know about you, but I'd take Berrian over ARE, Caldwell, Thrash, etc as our #2 WR. How about you?

Then there's those June 1st cuts. Oh yeah...lets sign some guy who couldn't stay on his own squad for whatever reason. Not saying there wont be a single one worth having, but a starter? I think not.

\

Enough already dude, you are just repeating yourself over and over now. There are still quality players available, and Berrian and Wilford would not fill the role of WR1 in the WCO. Wilford is big enough, but he isn't reliable enough, nor knowledgeable enough, to be the number one guy in the WCO. Moss is WR2 and ARE is the slot receiver in the WCO. Hackett is a possibility because of his size, WCO familiarity, and good hands, but for all we know Zorn and Cerrato are looking to the draft to fill the WR spot, as well as the D-line spot. Free agency could only be used in acquiring depth. While I'd like to see us grab one good free agent to fill a big need, it doesn't mean that free agent has to be a superstar. If the team really wanted Justin Smith, there would have been reports of us actively pursuing him, flying him into DC, etc. That didn't happen. The coaches know who they want, and I'm going to trust that the players they want are still out there, which is why they haven't made big moves yet. Zorn and Cerraot have said and done a lot of things I am liking this offseason so far, so I'm going to give them the benfit of the doubt and wait until we actually sign other players before putting forth my judgement.

You have no idea who the June 1st cuts will be, but there are good players who get designated there each season becauseof the team's cap situation. And even if there aren't, you and I have no idea whether this team is waiting until June 1st to sign free agents. Seeing as we have an interview scheduled with Will Demps this week, I'd venture to say we will be making some moves this week, now that the signing frenzy is all but over.

[Moorecards]

I did not make up these targets while sitting on the ****ter. We've heard for the past few months that those players would be in our sights. Please dont pretend like you too did not think of Berrian, Wilford, Smith, etc in burgundy and gold. I also dont see how people can gauge what a person's worth is. Wilford played on a team with mediocre QBs, imagine what he and his 6'4" frame could do with a guy like JC who airs it out. Justin Smith was one of the top DEs during his first few seasons in the league(had a down one last year). Is he not better then Daniels? I dont know about you, but I'd take Berrian over ARE, Caldwell, Thrash, etc as our #2 WR. How about you?

Then there's those June 1st cuts. Oh yeah...lets sign some guy who couldn't stay on his own squad for whatever reason. Not saying there wont be a single one worth having, but a starter? I think not.

so you would have paid Berrian $42 million contract for 6 years that includes $16 million in guaranteed money. He never has had a 1,000 yd season yet

and also pay Smith $45 million for 6 years including $20 million in guarantees

[Dick Edds]

damn right, it feels good too. Knowing that when the frenzy ends there will still be a few quality players we may be able to pick up for their actual market value instead of reaching and overspending. We don't really have the money to compete and get into a bidding war over FA's.

This is exactly what we need to do, no one player is gonna come in here and make us a SB champ. There are too many questions about this team and how it will react to the new coaching staff/changes.

I think this is exactly the smart thing to do, wait and see. There are always players being cut and released up until the season starts. We may be under the cap, but we need to think about the future, and if we can let some of these larger contracts ride out and get restructured/reworked, and lay off the other top dollar FA signings, in a year or two we might really only be "one" player away from getting to the SB.

I am stoked we are not doing anything right now, all these FA's are expecting top dollar, and besides the few like Moss, none of them really deserve it. It will be nice watching other teams bomb on those signing like we did with Arch, BLlyod, etc.

[HailSkinz1]

damn right, it feels good too. Knowing that when the frenzy ends there will still be a few quality players we may be able to pick up for their actual market value instead of reaching and overspending. We don't really have the money to compete and get into a bidding war over FA's.

This is exactly what we need to do, no one player is gonna come in here and make us a SB champ. There are too many questions about this team and how it will react to the new coaching staff/changes.

I think this is exactly the smart thing to do, wait and see. There are always players being cut and released up until the season starts. We may be under the cap, but we need to think about the future, and if we can let some of these larger contracts ride out and get restructured/reworked, and lay off the other top dollar FA signings, in a year or two we might really only be "one" player away from getting to the SB.

I am stoked we are not doing anything right now, all these FA's are expecting top dollar, and besides the few like Moss, none of them really deserve it. It will be nice watching other teams bomb on those signing like we did with Arch, BLlyod, etc.

The man speaketh the truth!

Hail,

H

[Voice_of_Reason]

I agree, made a similiar post like this yesterday. They go from the ultra-aggressive in FA to non-existent in 1 year?

People get a clue, you need free agents to fix up holes and fill depth. We are not asking them to go out and spend and fire up redskins 1 to get the top line guys, but maybe 1 or 2 semi level pros

Actually, 2 years. The last real free agent spending spree was a couple years ago with Archuletta, ARE, B. Loyd (I know, it was a trade), etc. It was also the year they brought in Al Saunders and Todd Collins, who wasn't a big name but got a big contrat for a guy who was going to be a third stringer.

Last year the 'Skins were actually pretty quiet. The biggest move was London Fletcher, and that really wasn't a top name pickup.

This year has been completely silent. I like it, personally. I don't know how good the team is going to be next year, but it's been proven that if you draft well you can build a good team for a long time.

[#21Taylor4Ever]

\

Enough already dude, you are just repeating yourself over and over now. There are still quality players available, and Berrian and Wilford would not fill the role of WR1 in the WCO. Wilford is big enough, but he isn't reliable enough, nor knowledgeable enough, to be the number one guy in the WCO. Moss is WR2 and ARE is the slot receiver in the WCO. Hackett is a possibility because of his size, WCO familiarity, and good hands, but for all we know Zorn and Cerrato are looking to the draft to fill the WR spot, as well as the D-line spot. Free agency could only be used in acquiring depth. While I'd like to see us grab one good free agent to fill a big need, it doesn't mean that free agent has to be a superstar. If the team really wanted Justin Smith, there would have been reports of us actively pursuing him, flying him into DC, etc. That didn't happen. The coaches know who they want, and I'm going to trust that the players they want are still out there, which is why they haven't made big moves yet. Zorn and Cerraot have said and done a lot of things I am liking this offseason so far, so I'm going to give them the benfit of the doubt and wait until we actually sign other players before putting forth my judgement.

You have no idea who the June 1st cuts will be, but there are good players who get designated there each season becauseof the team's cap situation. And even if there aren't, you and I have no idea whether this team is waiting until June 1st to sign free agents. Seeing as we have an interview scheduled with Will Demps this week, I'd venture to say we will be making some moves this week, now that the signing frenzy is all but over.

Repeating myself? That's what you're supposed to do in response to the questions I've received in this thread. How else am I supposed to answer the same questions? :laugh:

I disagree with your statement that "Wilford isnt reliable enough" for the WCO. Its not as if the Jags passing game was reliable, and let's not forget he had to play with Leftwich and Garrard, not exactly the cream of the drop @ the QB position. I mean you're open to the idea of Hackett, but just said Wilford isn't reliable. Wilford played, Hackett sat out with a myriad of injuries over his brief career. I'd rather start Espy @ #2 then Hackett. You then go onto say that Hackett's "good hands" are a reason we should look at him, yet Wilford caught more passes.

[S4L]

damn right, it feels good too. Knowing that when the frenzy ends there will still be a few quality players we may be able to pick up for their actual market value instead of reaching and overspending. We don't really have the money to compete and get into a bidding war over FA's.

This is exactly what we need to do, no one player is gonna come in here and make us a SB champ. There are too many questions about this team and how it will react to the new coaching staff/changes.

I think this is exactly the smart thing to do, wait and see. There are always players being cut and released up until the season starts. We may be under the cap, but we need to think about the future, and if we can let some of these larger contracts ride out and get restructured/reworked, and lay off the other top dollar FA signings, in a year or two we might really only be "one" player away from getting to the SB.

I am stoked we are not doing anything right now, all these FA's are expecting top dollar, and besides the few like Moss, none of them really deserve it. It will be nice watching other teams bomb on those signing like we did with Arch, BLlyod, etc.

Nice post! I agree with every word. It's always good to have a voice of reason to all this FA madness. Vinny is quoted as saying the same thing as far as players and their market value.

We've gotten bit way too many times in the past so BE PATIENT and enjoy the moment! Who knows... we may find a "diamond in the rough" if we do our homework.

[HailSkinz1]

Repeating myself? That's what you're supposed to do in response to the questions I've received in this thread. How else am I supposed to answer the same questions? :laugh:

I disagree with your statement that "Wilford isnt reliable enough" for the WCO. Its not as if the Jags passing game was reliable, and let's not forget he had to play with Leftwich and Garrard, not exactly the cream of the drop @ the QB position.

Neither Wilford nor Hackett are worth it to me. They are only on people's lists because of the dearth of available talent. But Garrard is a very good, if not excellent, QB.

Hail,

H

[Section123OnSundays]

yup. the grass is always greener on the other side for people in this world.

[Skins-in-CT]

I did not make up these targets while sitting on the ****ter. We've heard for the past few months that those players would be in our sights.

Heard from who? Can you provide a link or some sort of evidence that the Redskins were targeting these people? The fans on this board may have been saying how they wanted them, but I don't recall the FO making any statements as such. If I am wrong, then please show me and I will gladly accept it.

Please dont pretend like you too did not think of Berrian, Wilford,

Smith, etc in burgundy and gold.

Actually I didn't but thanks for trying to think for me.

I also dont see how people can gauge what a person's worth is.

That is exactly what you did in your original post by stating all the of the worthwhile players are gone or will be gone. How do you know the ones that haven't been signed are not worthwhile?

I dont know about you, but I'd take Berrian over ARE, Caldwell, Thrash, etc as our #2 WR. How about you?

I will tell you right now that in my opinion, Berrian is overrated. He has yet to post numbers equal of the salary he is now getting. Not to mention the fact that we are looking at WR as a postion of need, but this is only what, the third day since FA began? Plus our draft picks - I suppose if we don't get Sweed, who I don't want anyway since I would prefer Malcolm Kelly, the Skins would have pissed away their opportunity there as well.

You have no idea how ARE or Santana will fair in this new offense. You have no idea that the receivers we have are incapable of fulfilling the roles we need. I don't either. In fact, if you look at their numbers, ARE and Berrian were not that dissimilar. ARE had 20 fewer receptions than Berrian and about 200 fewer yards. The difference is that Berrian was the number 1 WR for the Bears and ARE was our #2. TD's was a big difference, I grant you that, 5 to 1, but other than that, not too different overall.

I do want a big receiver with good hands also, but I am not going to panic because we didn't sign one on March 1st. I favor the approach they have taken because they have shown in the past they don't know how to control their spending.

Then there's those June 1st cuts. Oh yeah...lets sign some guy who couldn't stay on his own squad for whatever reason. Not saying there wont be a single one worth having, but a starter? I think not.

You are saying exactly what I said you would. Just because someone got cut doesn't mean they are garbage. A lot could depend on the reason they got cut. Look, I am not saying we should go trolling through other teams cast offs but you may be surprised what is out there. Point is, you don't know and neither do I.

[elkabong82]

Repeating myself? That's what you're supposed to do in response to the questions I've received in this thread. How else am I supposed to answer the same questions? :laugh:

I disagree with your statement that "Wilford isnt reliable enough" for the WCO. Its not as if the Jags passing game was reliable, and let's not forget he had to play with Leftwich and Garrard, not exactly the cream of the drop @ the QB position. I mean you're open to the idea of Hackett, but just said Wilford isn't reliable. Wilford played, Hackett sat out with a myriad of injuries over his brief career. I'd rather start Espy @ #2 then Hackett. You then go onto say that Hackett's "good hands" are a reason we should look at him, yet Wilford caught more passes.

I'm talking about how you are saying the same thing over and over, when you should be adding to your argument. Either that or just ignore the responses, since most of them are repeating what has already been said as well.

We will have to agree to disagree on Wilford, cuz obviously you are pretty high on him and I am not. Don't get me wrong, he is talented, but to bring into a new system as the number one guy? No thank you, too risky. Hackett is a better choice because, like I previously said, he at least has familiarity with the WCO, and with Zorn. Not to mention before he was injured he was being groomed in the WR1 role. He is also only 26, so he has room to grow. I am not liking his injury history, but even still he is a safer bet than other WRs simply because of his knowledge of the system.

Garrard was very good last year, the team is run-first though, which is why Wilford didn't get a ton of opportunities. Hackett has already proven more than Espy, and again you aren't understanding the fact that Moss is going to be the #2 WR in the West Coast Offense, and ARE will be the slot, and that we are missing the big-bodied, possession receiver to fill the #1 WR role. It's a big role, which is why taking a chance on Wilford who doesn't know the system, doesn't make as much sense as grabbing a young WR who has already been groomed in the role. Hackett will also probably come cheaper than the contract Wilford got. Wilford caught more passes because he played more games, and that certainly doesn't mean Hackett has bad hands all of a sudden.

[#21Taylor4Ever]

Heard from who? Can you provide a link or some sort of evidence that the Redskins were targeting these people? The fans on this board may have been saying how they wanted them, but I don't recall the FO making any statements as such. If I am wrong, then please show me and I will gladly accept it.

Extremeskins.com

Actually I didn't but thanks for trying to think for me.

Ok. You were one of the few that thought we should stand pat. Im sure had we signed any of those already signed, you'd be up in arms saying how against it you were.

That is exactly what you did in your original post by stating all the of the worthwhile players are gone or will be gone. How do you know the ones that haven't been signed are not worthwhile?

We dont know how those unsigned will fair, but we also cannot think those already gone are not worth the money they received. Some on here want Hackett, yet Wilford is bigger, not injury prone, with better hands.

I will tell you right now that in my opinion, Berrian is overrated. He has yet to post numbers equal of the salary he is now getting. Not to mention the fact that we are looking at WR as a postion of need, but this is only what, the third day since FA began? Plus our draft picks - I suppose if we don't get Sweed, who I don't want anyway since I would prefer Malcolm Kelly, the Skins would have pissed away their opportunity there as well.

Berrian is a homerun threat, something we desperately need on the outside to free up Moss and Cooley. He may not have 1000 yard seasons, but he has the speed and the hands to take it to the house. I think we should get Sweed, but in my earlier posts you can see where I think we have 4 holes to fill. We should address at least 2 via free agency and 2 in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft. Maybe our 3rd round pick starts, maybe he doesnt, but rounds 1 and 2 are the most likely to become impact guys.

You have no idea how ARE or Santana will fair in this new offense. You have no idea that the receivers we have are incapable of fulfilling the roles we need. I don't either. In fact, if you look at their numbers, ARE and Berrian were not that dissimilar. ARE had 20 fewer receptions than Berrian and about 200 fewer yards. The difference is that Berrian was the number 1 WR for the Bears and ARE was our #2. TD's was a big difference, I grant you that, 5 to 1, but other than that, not too different overall.

I know they're talking about ARE being a slot receiver, still leaving us without a guy to line up opposite Moss. ARE will probably destroy LBs that are forced to cover him in the slot, but Wilford would've look great opposite Moss. But again, maybe we get Sweed and he starts, or maybe Mix starts, maybe Espy. I just think free agency is something winning teams take advantage of WITH the draft picks.

[jrfriedm]

Exactly what holes need to be filled with starters? We are looking for depth with maybe an additional starting wideout. I don't get why people are complaining about not going after big-name-so-and-so, especially when their price tags are going to be astronomical, and then watch them fail as they so often have in the past.

Exactly. The Redskins don't really have to many holes to fill. Our biggest problem is keeping guys healthy and depth.

That being said, we do need to go after a big Wide Out, and probably get a good pass rushing DE. There is also a need for another CB (as everybody here knows I am NOT a carlos "No D" Rogers fan), but other than that this team really is good.

[Skins-in-CT]

Extremeskins.com

Again, not the FO, just us fans talking. It could be that the Redskins never had any of these players in mind to begin with, or it could be that they thought they weren't worth the fortunes they got. I don't know so I can't say.

Ok. You were one of the few that thought we should stand pat. Im sure had we signed any of those already signed, you'd be up in arms saying how against it you were.

Woah don't get me wrong - I didn't say we should stand pat. I am not as high on Berrian as you are. I don't want Randy Moss either because I think he would cost too much and I think it is more about Brady throwing to him (combined with his skills) than anything else. I really think the success he had this past year was because he was on the Patriots and I hate the Pats almost as much as Dallas.

We dont know how those unsigned will fair, but we also cannot think those already gone are not worth the money they received.

You and I will disagree here but I won't tell you that you are wrong. Just different opinions.

But again, maybe we get Sweed and he starts, or maybe Mix starts, maybe Espy. I just think free agency is something winning teams take advantage of WITH the draft picks.

This is actually what I am hoping. I have a lot of friends who are Giants fans and they are all pissed off at me because we have Mix. I want to see what he can do. The people on here that say he has no potential have no clue because they haven't seen him play yet. He was a beast on teams and I know that doesn't mean he will be a great receiver but I would at least like the chance to see him play some. Again, not sold on Sweed because I have my personal favs, but again, our opinions differ here.

Do we need to fill holes on our team? Of course. We aren't desperate for a slew of starters though and I think that is the main point of the argument. We can afford to pick up players on the cheap because we are looking mainly at depth for the most part. Yes, we do need some starters, but I don't think it is time for us to be desperate just yet.

[#21Taylor4Ever]

I'm talking about how you are saying the same thing over and over, when you should be adding to your argument. Either that or just ignore the responses, since most of them are repeating what has already been said as well.

All I can do is reiterate my stance, which is, fill some of the holes via free agency, utilize your draft picks to fill the rest. That has not changed, that's why I am not adding to my argument...it's very basic and easy to comprehend. IN MY OPINION<<<<something I've also said throughout, I do not believe in the remaining free agents, another reason why I'm slightly disgusted in our plans so far.

We will have to agree to disagree on Wilford, cuz obviously you are pretty high on him and I am not. Don't get me wrong, he is talented, but to bring into a new system as the number one guy? No thank you, too risky. Hackett is a better choice because, like I previously said, he at least has familiarity with the WCO, and with Zorn. Not to mention before he was injured he was being groomed in the WR1 role. He is also only 26, so he has room to grow. I am not liking his injury history, but even still he is a safer bet than other WRs simply because of his knowledge of the system.

I think he's more of a #2, something else I said already. Moss is obviously our go to WR, but Wilford is definitely more worthy of our money then Hackett. This is based on stats, games played, and overall level of talent. Hackett knows the WCO, good for him, but he drops passes, gets hurt a lot, and reminds me more of a Todd Pinkston kinda guy.

Garrard was very good last year, the team is run-first though, which is why Wilford didn't get a ton of opportunities. Hackett has already proven more than Espy, and again you aren't understanding the fact that Moss is going to be the #2 WR in the West Coast Offense, and ARE will be the slot, and that we are missing the big-bodied, possession receiver to fill the #1 WR role. It's a big role, which is why taking a chance on Wilford who doesn't know the system, doesn't make as much sense as grabbing a young WR who has already been groomed in the role. Hackett will also probably come cheaper than the contract Wilford got. Wilford caught more passes because he played more games, and that certainly doesn't mean Hackett has bad hands all of a sudden.

Hackett has proven more then Espy, he's proven to be a liability. As far as your claims that Moss will be the #2 in the WCO, I dont buy it. It is not necessary for your #1 to be a big bodied WR, you just have to PLAY big. I think guys like Moss and Steve Smith have already shown size doesnt matter. And if you think I'm labeling Hackett as a "bad hands guy" all of a sudden, you should probably check out some game film. He's not horrific, but he's not someone you'd trust over the middle with a FS bearing down in him.

[elkabong82]

Extremeskins.com

We dont know how those unsigned will fair, but we also cannot think those already gone are not worth the money they received. Some on here want Hackett, yet Wilford is bigger, not injury prone, with better hands.

Berrian is a homerun threat, something we desperately need on the outside to free up Moss and Cooley. He may not have 1000 yard seasons, but he has the speed and the hands to take it to the house. I think we should get Sweed, but in my earlier posts you can see where I think we have 4 holes to fill. We should address at least 2 via free agency and 2 in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft. Maybe our 3rd round pick starts, maybe he doesnt, but rounds 1 and 2 are the most likely to become impact guys.

.

Of the current receivers signed so far during free agency, Jerry Porter and Wilford are the only ones who fit the physical requirements needed of a WR1 in the WCO. You keep harping about Berrian, but while he is 6'1", he is only 185 lbs, he'd get eaten alive as the WR1 in the WCO. Same goes for Stallworth and Devery Henderson.

Since when does Wilford have better hands than Hackett? Last I checked, Wilford is a 29 year old receiver who has never had a season of 700 yards or better, and has no experience in a WCO. Experience is very important, but you want to take a chance on Wilford as the number one guy when he has no experience in the WCO and has shown nothing so far in his career that shows he can be a legit WR1 in a west coast offense? I think all you are doing is looking at Wilford's height and weight, and assuming he would be great. Hackett at least has the system familiarity, has worked with our head coach before, and has been groomed in a WR1 role before. Not to mention he is only 26. In 14 games started, Hackett has 1394 yards receiving and 9 TDs. Wilford has 1994 yds and 14 TDs, but in 37 games started.

[MikeBass]

Same old song and dance.

I guess Zorn saying Campbell doesn't have to worry, he is the starter and the team will make the playoffs, isn't the team displaying their confidence. Why don't all you doom-and-gloomers ever actually wait for something to happen before you spout off that we are doomed. You were saying this same stuff at the beginning of '07, how right were you? Oh, and I don't see how losing Taylor falls under "roster mismanagement".

I guess only teams like the Saints, Bears, Packers, etc. can bring in new coaches, new philosophies, can have great improvement in just one year. Because you don't like the FO it means we can't do it. And what are these major changes we are going through? Zorn bringing in a WCO? The D staff is the same save for GW, and most of our roster is intact. But go ahead and assume the FO is lying to us, that they are evil. I've always said even when they do things right people will complain just for the sake of complaining, and you, among others, are proving that point.

Oh, and making assessments like "we won't be competitive" when you don't even know what the whole product is we will put on the field, without ever seeing Zorn's team practice, is about as asinine as assuming the FO is lying to us and rebuilding the team, eventhough most of the roster is staying the same.

This is so true I do not know why some people log on with the intent on talking trash about the team and its front office each and everyday on each and every thread.

We made the playoffs last season and I am looking forward to at least that this season.

[elkabong82]

All I can do is reiterate my stance, which is, fill some of the holes via free agency, utilize your draft picks to fill the rest. That has not changed, that's why I am not adding to my argument...it's very basic and easy to comprehend. IN MY OPINION<<<<something I've also said throughout, I do not believe in the remaining free agents, another reason why I'm slightly disgusted in our plans so far.

I think he's more of a #2, something else I said already. Moss is obviously our go to WR, but Wilford is definitely more worthy of our money then Hackett. This is based on stats, games played, and overall level of talent. Hackett knows the WCO, good for him, but he drops passes, gets hurt a lot, and reminds me more of a Todd Pinkston kinda guy.

Hackett has proven more then Espy, he's proven to be a liability. As far as your claims that Moss will be the #2 in the WCO, I dont buy it. It is not necessary for your #1 to be a big bodied WR, you just have to PLAY big. I think guys like Moss and Steve Smith have already shown size doesnt matter. And if you think I'm labeling Hackett as a "bad hands guy" all of a sudden, you should probably check out some game film. He's not horrific, but he's not someone you'd trust over the middle with a FS bearing down in him.

Your stance that all the good free agents are gone, or will be soon, it isn't panning out. There is still good talent available, and the rest of the holes will be filled in the draft. I understand your opinion, but it doesn't mean you have to repeat yourself to every poster who disagrees, especially since you have already answered their questions in responses to other posters saying the same thing. You may not believe in the remaining free agents, though Randy Moss is among them, but I don't believe there were many free agents that would help us out effectively, to begin with. So far, IMO, the ones you have pointed out aren't worth the contracts they have gotten.

Even you admit Wilford is a #2 WR at best. However, for the umpteenth time, we need a #1 WR for the WCO. Moss fits the number 2 role perfectly in a west coast offense, and Zorn has said that is where Moss will be used, and ARE will be in the slot because he fits that mold very well. Zorn needs a legit target at the #1 WR slot, and you yourself have said Wilford isn't that guy. Santana Moss is not tall enough to be the #1 WR in the WCO.

Again you are trashing Hackett, simply because he isn't "your guy". If we don't get Hackett, and address the position in the draft, I won't mind at all, but of the free agent WR crop, other than Randy Moss, Hackett is the only viable option because he has: experience and familiarity. Again, I don't know where you are getting this stuff that Hackett drops a lot of balls, and I'm thinking you are just saying that cuz you don't like him. Other than this year, name me a season he has had significant injuries. Hackett hasn't been given a lot of starting opportunities, but you aren't willing to forguive him for that, though you have no problem doing so for Wilford.

And seeing as Holmgren trusted Hackett enough to groom him in the WR1 role, I'm going to trust his assesment over yours. And Zorn himself has said Moss fits the role of a WR2 in the WCO, and that ARE fits the slot. Zorn and Cerrato have both said they are targeting a big-bodied WR for the #1 role. If you don't believe me, listen to or watch some of their interviews on free agency and the draft on redskins.com. And no, just because Moss has a big heart doesn't mean he is suited for the WR1 spot. Santana doesn't have the abilities needed for the role, but he is perfect for the #2 spot. Santana and Steve Smith play great, but neither has played in a WCO. It is a different sytem, and perhaps you need to read about before assuming a 5'10" receiver can play in the WR1 role, or that a 29 year old who can't get adequate starting time on a team filled with crappy WRs, can play the #2 spot, which relies on cuts, beating the defender, and speed.

[fansince62]

Same old song and dance.

I guess Zorn saying Campbell doesn't have to worry, he is the starter and the team will make the playoffs, isn't the team displaying their confidence. Why don't all you doom-and-gloomers ever actually wait for something to happen before you spout off that we are doomed. You were saying this same stuff at the beginning of '07, how right were you? Oh, and I don't see how losing Taylor falls under "roster mismanagement".

I guess only teams like the Saints, Bears, Packers, etc. can bring in new coaches, new philosophies, can have great improvement in just one year. Because you don't like the FO it means we can't do it. And what are these major changes we are going through? Zorn bringing in a WCO? The D staff is the same save for GW, and most of our roster is intact. But go ahead and assume the FO is lying to us, that they are evil. I've always said even when they do things right people will complain just for the sake of complaining, and you, among others, are proving that point.

Oh, and making assessments like "we won't be competitive" when you don't even know what the whole product is we will put on the field, without ever seeing Zorn's team practice, is about as asinine as assuming the FO is lying to us and rebuilding the team, eventhough most of the roster is staying the same.

yes....you are a will-o-the-wisp kinda guy!

and yes....because folks say it is so...makes it so!!!

and yes....it's all about my wadded up panties when it comes to the FO. You are a master pyschologist.

and yes....cuz other teams can do a one year improvement (kinda open ended statement - what the H...your standards are obviously low to start with)....that applies directly to our situation! another scintillating argument for which there is no response.

you're on a roll Dr Feelgood!

if you read most of the posts I have bequesthed to nitwits like you today you will notice (you do have a post primary school education do you not? sorry, required for reading comprehension) that......

- I have argued all along that we will have to wait until June to see how this ultimately plays out in terms of calibrating our expectations for next season and for gaining a bead on Cerrato's way-ahead for this team

- I have argued that the team is somewhat captive in terms of resource availability and roster timing by past strategies that emphasized near -term over longer term objectives

- I have argued that even with a full slate of draft picks...it is highly unlikely that even 50% of the picks will become starters THIS season

- I have argued that we will see, post June, whether Vinny is moving the team toward a change in not only its cost structure but its manpower rotations (as signaled, among other things, by a pronounced shift from FAs to draftees)

And for the record.....

yes...the Cowboys have a better roster

yes...the Giants, until proven otherwise, are the World Champions

yes...the Iggles have made some moves that improve their team

yes...we have some critical injuries and lost our best player

I can easily see the Skins being a good team...and finishing last in the division were play to start tomorrow. As I said, we can revisit all of this post June to see where things progress to.

As for you.....you're just such a swell guy...and evidently completely tolerant of mediocrity (we all seek our own level in life I guess)...year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year.

And yes.....there are some of us who actually demand performance and superior outcomes. The statute of limitations has just about run out on this one. The time for sitting back like a fool and reading hope into every burp that gaseously passes from the FO is long gone for many of us. I hope Cerrtao gets it right. But, unlike you apparently, I'm not willing to succor myself on the nipple of dreams and empty hope yet again.

Let's see some *amn results culiminating in a top tier team that competes for a Championship. Not the lifeline stuff we have been fed for far too long.

[angel2]

I just love this free agency stratergy drawn up by Vinny. Down with free agency - that communistic Bull Sh#t. :applause:

[MikeBass]

I just love this free agency stratergy drawn up by Vinny. Down with free agency - that communistic Bull Sh#t. :applause:

I would edit that last word if I was you before the mods see it.

[elkabong82]

yes....you are a will-o-the-wisp kinda guy!

and yes....because folks say it is so...makes it so!!!

and yes....it's all about my wadded up panties when it comes to the FO. You are a master pyschologist.

and yes....cuz other teams can do a one year improvement (kinda open ended statement - what the H...your standards are obviously low to start with)....that applies directly to our situation! another scintillating argument for which there is no response.

you're on a roll Dr Feelgood!

if you read most of the posts I have bequesthed to nitwits like you today you will notice (you do have a post primary school education do you not? sorry, required for reading comprehension) that......

- I have argued all along that we will have to wait until June to see how this ultimately plays out in terms of calibrating our expectations for next season and for gaining a bead on Cerrato's way-ahead for this team

- I have argued that the team is somewhat captive in terms of resource availability and roster timing by past strategies that emphasized near -term over longer term objectives

- I have argued that even with a full slate of draft picks...it is highly unlikely that even 50% of the picks will become starters THIS season

- I have argued that we will see, post June, whether Vinny is moving the team toward a change in not only its cost structure but its manpower rotations (as signaled, among other things, by a pronounced shift from FAs to draftees)

And for the record.....

yes...the Cowboys have a better roster

yes...the Giants, until proven otherwise, are the World Champions

yes...the Iggles have made some moves that improve their team

yes...we have some critical injuries and lost our best player

I can easily see the Skins being a good team...and finishing last in the division were play to start tomorrow. As I said, we can revisit all of this post June to see where things progress to.

As for you.....you're just such a swell guy...and evidently completely tolerant of mediocrity (we all seek our own level in life I guess)...year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year.

And yes.....there are some of us who actually demand performance and superior outcomes. The statute of limitations has just about run out on this one. The time for sitting back like a fool and reading hope into every burp that gaseously passes from the FO is long gone for many of us. I hope Cerrtao gets it right. But, unlike you apparently, I'm not willing to succor myself on the nipple of dreams and empty hope yet again.

Let's see some *amn results culiminating in a top tier team that competes for a Championship. Not the lifeline stuff we have been fed for far too long.

Ho ho hum. Talk to me when you can actually address a point, instead of using lame sarcastic attempts and insults to disguise the fact you are trying to pass assumptions off as fact.

How are my standards low when I am saying a team coming off of a winning season with a playoff appearance, only has a couple holes to fill, and that can be done in the draft. Suddenly the Skins are doing what many complainers, including you, wanted. But now that isn't good enough, we still won't be good because we are relying on draft picks. It isn't even about the team anymore, it's whatever guys like you can come up with to keep complaining.

And seeing as you said in the post I quoted that the team won't be competitive, and that anyone who thinks this team will be is nuts, I guess that was your way of saying we will have to wait until the roster is set and training camp begins. Yeah, and I'm the nitwit with only primary school education. Get over yourself, and don't assume someone has low education or is unintelligent simply because they don't agree with you.

Where did I say I was tolerant of mediocrity? I'll wait. How is a team coming off of a playoff season, and retaining all but one of its starters a bad approach, or settling for mediocrity? It isn't. It is simply you spouting off your warped and biased opinion of this team simply because you are dissatisifed with Dan and the FO.

If you aren't willing to be hopeful in this team now that they are taking the build through the draft approach so many wanted, then there is probably nothing the team can do to win your support, which is pathetic. The game of football was meant to be enjoyed, not be some bullseye target you use to vent out life's frustrations. (If you are going to make assumptions about my character and intelligence, I will make this assumption about you).

[Skins-in-CT]

And yes.....there are some of us who actually demand performance and superior outcomes. The statute of limitations has just about run out on this one. The time for sitting back like a fool and reading hope into every burp that gaseously passes from the FO is long gone for many of us. I hope Cerrtao gets it right. But, unlike you apparently, I'm not willing to succor myself on the nipple of dreams and empty hope yet again.

:doh:

This has to be one of the dumbest things continuously posted on this site. You demand.... That is too funny. What are you going to do if they don't do what you say? Turn in your fan card? Oh no - you will stop being a fan because the team didn't do what you wanted.

If you want ownership of a team then go become a Packers fan. Until then, have your opinion and complain about the front office, but please stop making demands that don't amount to anything. It makes you look like an Emo-kid.

[AFskinsfan]

:doh:

It makes you look like an Emo-kid.

"You dont know me, you dont understand me! Wearing my sisters pants doesn't make me gay, it makes me dark and tragic"! :laugh: :laugh:

Freaking emo's...