Revolutionary War discussion

[rincewind]

I've seen a lot of threads about the Civil War and WWII so I thought I'd start a Revolutionary War thread. I have a paper to write on the 4 biggest mistakes the Brits made during the war so I thought I'd solict some thoughts. I'm going with:

1. Problems in communication - Having Germain give orders from Britain was a disaster. He completely ****ed up Saratoga which led to the French entering the War. Not to mention that if they win Saratoga they cut of New England.

2. Relying on Loyalists - again and again they thought they would have loyalist support that just wasn't there. They didn't send needed troops thinking Americans would rise to cause... oops.

3. Supply lines - nothing like fighting a war from 3,000 miles away against an indigenous peoples. :doh:

4. No real goal early on - the couldn't figure out if force or talk was the best method for ending the war quickly. They actually sent the Howe brothers here with a duel purpose - fight a war AND seek peace; the two goals could not be sought simultaneously. Howe would have crushed Washington at New York, ending the war, if he didn't think he could obtain peace through diplomacy.

Any suggestions/ideas...

[tim5129]

i just have one for you.

1) they under estimated the power of the americans

[rincewind]

i just have one for you.

1) they under estimated the power of the americans

Very true. They were a pompus bunch, that's for sure. Hard to articulate that though.

This does not need to necessarily be about my paper. I'd just like to have a discussion about the period. I'm glad I took the course - it has really lit a fire in me about the period; truly one of the most remarkable periods in history, especially when you consider the fact that the French Revolution was close on our own Revolution's heels.

[Corcaigh]

Logistics was a big part as you mentioned as was overestimating the extent of loyalist support.

Some of it was down to hubris. With the French loss of Canada and other British successes elsewhere, Britian was becoming a clear superpower. Most of Europe was very uncomfortable with this. This led to arrogance and an absence of allies.

Another key factor was the unfamiliarity of the terrain. European wars were typically fought in larger battles on a more localized and centralized scale. The redcoats didn't adapt well to the new circumstances.

And of course you had a local, well-educated and motivated enemy fighting in their own country. In some respects, the Revolutionary War was a little like a British Vietnam. After about eight years, the British public didn't want to support a remote war.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Its easier to win a war when you don't organize your troops into a straight line so they can all be shot at once.

[pjfootballer]

Not ducking for cover was their undoing. They fought old school and we fought new school. They assumed we would fight a gentlemanly war. THEY WERE WRONG B***ches!

[Corcaigh]

i just have one for you.

1) they under estimated the power of the americans

Yeah ... one of the bullet points in your paper should just read:

USA! USA! USA!

:laugh:

[Sarge]

I've seen a lot of threads about the Civil War and WWII so I thought I'd start a Revolutionary War thread. I have a paper to write on the 4 biggest mistakes the Brits made during the war so I thought I'd solict some thoughts. I'm going with:

You going for strategic mistakes or individual blunders?

[Bang]

As is often the case for a loser, King George would not allow Cornwallis the leeway to fight on his own terms. He insisted the war was nothing more than a nuisance, and would not reinforce Cornwallis until it was too late.

They did not press advantages. At the Battle of Long Island they all but had the Continental army in a total rout. They wasted time in pursuing Washington and allowed the Army to slip away to regroup.

the Hessians arrogance did not allow them to account for the surprise attack at Trenton over Christmas. They were routed, and lost valuable supplies as well as men to the revolutionaries.

They were more readily equipped to deal with winter, and we all know the hardships the continental army suffered. Had the British advanced and engaged in winter they could have smashed us. But they garrisoned during winter as was customary.

~Bang

[rincewind]

You going for strategic mistakes or individual blunders?

I asked my teacher the same thing - he said to try to focus on themes using individual incidents as examples. Hence me saying communication problems with Saratoga as the main example.

[rincewind]

As is often the case for a loser, King George would not allow Cornwallis the leeway to fight on his own terms. He insisted the war was nothing more than a nuisance, and would not reinforce Cornwallis until it was too late.

They did not press advantages. At the Battle of Long Island they all but had the Continental army in a total rout. They wasted time in pursuing Washington and allowed the Army to slip away to regroup.

the Hessians arrogance did not allow them to account for the surprise attack at Trenton over Christmas. They were routed, and lost valuable supplies ass well as men to the revolutionaries.

They didn't press advantages. They were more readily equipped to deal with winter, and we all know the hardships the continental army suffered. Had the British advanced and engaged in winter they could have smashed us. But they garrisoned during winter as was customary.

~Bang

That's a good point. Clinton was PISSED when he arrived and found Howe still in winter mode well into the spring.

[Goaldeje]

To piggyback what Bang mentioned, the British failed to capitalize on their advantages. They had us beaten several times, but Howe refused to advance or give chase to our retreat (Long Island being perhaps the most egregious example).

Howe was seemingly content to make a display moreso than a war.

[rincewind]

To piggyback what Bang mentioned, the British failed to capitalize on their advantages. They had us beaten several times, but Howe refused to advance or give chase to our retreat (Long Island being perhaps the most egregious example).

Howe was seemingly content to make a display moreso than a war.

This kind of plays into my point about having no real goal. Howe was looking to make peace before war often times. He was soft on the Americans since we had paid tribute to his older brother. The Brits should have never had him and his other brother leading the peace seeking mission.

[WARLORD1863]

The British army operated with the philosophy that taking the major cities and the nation's capital would win the war. The British swiftly took New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Charleston. Then they waited... and waited... then somebody realized "Wow, I guess taking this building isn't going to work." The colonial armies and government were fluid, which meant that the British would have to expend incredible amounts of money, supplies, and manpower to peg down their enemy.

Also, time and again the British army tried to impose traditional linear warfare upon the colonial armies, but they didn't oblige very often. I actually spent January in England, and at the infamous Tower of London there is a Fusilier (elite English troops) Museum within the complex. They had a small section about the American war for Independence and they blamed the American guerilla tactics for the ineffectiveness of Britain's more "honorable form of warfare".

[Mass_SkinsFan]

You want the biggest reason the British had so much trouble.....

They didn't understand what the causes and reasons behind the war were to begin with. Nor did they comprehend how deplorable the colonists considered the issues that were being pressed against them.

[Sarge]

Read a little about Francis Marion to see where the Brits ****ed up in the south

[zoony]

No matter what the British did/didn't do, it was just a matter of time.

[Pedro]

The Americans wouldn't stand and fight like they were supposed to. Kept using hit and run tactics. Can't beat that as you guys have found out numerous times since

EDIT: And the real reason we lost is we shouldn't have been there still in the capacity we tried to enforce. As is always the case the unwelcome always end up leaving with their tails between their legs. Doesn't matter if it was us in America, you guys in 'choose one', etc etc. Imperialistic aggression always fails eventually, because it's wrong. Deep down we all know this no matter how much chest thumping we do when given the opportunity to beat on another nation.

[dcnativenerd]

I think a lot of it had to do with underestimating the colonists. They were a determined bunch and they had a set goal in mind. The British, though, didn't know what to expect and the Americans caught them on their heels.

[43brown32]

Again, the Viet Nam analogy. We didn't have to win the battles. We just had to survive. The war was SO expensive for the British, and they eventually had to cut their losses.

[Ellis]

Any suggestions/ideas...

We wore earth toned clothes that blended with the trees. They wore Red which made it easy for us to pick em off when they marched from one area to the next.

idiots.:laugh:

[rincewind]

For those suggesting the guerilla tactics - while I agree that was a major reason that we won the war, I don't know if I would necesarrily call it a mistake on the Brit's part. It was more that they didn't understand than they made the mistake of fighting the old ways - they had absolutely no concept of our fighting style, which is kind of dumb considering they had just fought (and won) the French/Indian war... and that war was won largely because the French decided half way through to stop fighting a guerilla style war.

[The 12th Commandment]

It shouldn't have taken them too long to figure it out though Rince. The mistake was being rigid and set in their ways...call it arrogance. The air of superiority don't mean squat when a good ol' boy is aiming at you from a tree a 100 yards away.

[rincewind]

It shouldn't have taken them too long to figure it out though Rince. The mistake was being rigid and set in their ways...call it arrogance. The air of superiority don't mean squat when a good ol' boy is aiming at you from a tree a 100 yards away.

We never figured it out in Vietnam - still haven't.

[The 12th Commandment]

Your right but we're talking about the Brits and their mistakes. If you ignore it history does repeat itself. Hijacking your own thread are you?